"'Clair Obscur: Expedition 33' utterly destroys Square Enix's gaslighting over Final Fantasy turn-based combat"-Windows Central

MeachTheMonster

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Gizmo_Duck said:
Yet we constantly get PR that a game on gamepass hits a million players like a month later or don’t get any PR at all about player numbers.

it Wouldn’t be a surprise if more people on playstation and steam combined sold more copies than people played on Gamepass.
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Now gamepass doesn’t hurt sales :wow:

and steam stats don’t matter :noah:
 
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CarltonJunior said:
The newest FF7 has a lot of problems, but it wasnt the combat, ill agree.

But that doesnt dismiss the rest of the article either.

The problem is that stylistically, turn based combat will always be unpopular and not preferred to the mainstream, attention span isnt there. Clair Obscur is enjoying its 15 minutes but ultimately people default to action based gameplay, square recognizes this.

The bigger issue in my opinion is that Square’s gotten too big for their britches, FF is natively a niche product and series, they got lucky with the OG FF7 and advent children taking off, but their philosophy changes to accomodate and make FF accessible to the mainstream has largely just pissed off the core fanbase and hasnt really worked on the casual fanbase outside of FF14. They should realize this and appeal to the core fanbase again, IMO.
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:usure:
Gizmo_Duck said:
Square enix puts out the most turn based games of any other publisher, people don’t buy them (aside from dragon quest)

Final Fantasy has always been about experimentation and trying to push the medium further. Rebirth has one of the most inventive combat systems out of any modern game, XVI less so.

also, while Claire Obscur is the clear GOTY front runner right now, both the last final fantasy games sold 3x’s as much as it did in the first couple of days. SE isn’t in competition with them they are in competition with other major AAA devs, Sony, Bethesda, CDPR, Capcom, etc.

Clair Obscur has been a persona/xeno/yakuza level success which is great but the internet using it to shyt on Square is retarded especially the obvious warring windows central article that has their line in the sand because of its gamepass association
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Final Fantasy sells off name alone. A new IP by a team of 33 people, which is probably around the size of SE's janitorial staff, says a ton. A small team made the FF game true fans have wanted for 20 years.
 
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TripleAgent said:
:usure:

Final Fantasy sells off name alone. A new IP by a team of 33 people, which is probably around the size of SE's janitorial staff, says a ton. A small team made the FF game true fans have wanted for 20 years.
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A “small team” is kind of underselling how much outsourcing the game uses
 
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TripleAgent said:
Final Fantasy sells off name alone. A new IP by a team of 33 people, which is probably around the size of SE's janitorial staff, says a ton. A small team made the FF game true fans have wanted for 20 years.
Click to expand...

As an FF fan, anyone that says FF is relegated to turn-based isn't really that smart of an FF fan. Nor did they pay attention to the series' development ideologies.

FF has always changed battle systems outside of the first 5 games because of hardware limitations. But if you then look at the differences from 7 to 16, each game slowly started to chip away at turn-based. Why? Because as a mechanic its not as universal as RPG fans like to think it is. And take 7R series which are universally lauded, one of the big positives is the dynamism of the battle mechanics.

Now, Clair Obscur is getting love because it does 5 things fundamentally well:

1. It's got a very unique art style that sets it apart from its contemporaries.

2. It's battle system is incredibly unique, despite being turn based. Adding in ATB parry/dodge means you're engaged even when it's not your turn.

3. Fights themselves are VERY well paced. Random encounters don't feel like slogs and boss fights are based around sometimes singular mechanics.

4. Great score that fits the world well and is unapologetic in its Frenchness. (Like how Persona or Yakuza are unapologetically Japanese.)

5. The pacing is awesome. You always feel like there's something to do and you're always moving forward, even when you're in the open world.


- this is just good game design and isn't necessarily something exclusive to RPGs. Any game that does these things will be a good game. Take Sea of Stars and give it an art style, score and engine like Clair Obscur and it's just as lauded. But it's also just exciting to see what small teams are doing. This is fundamentally good for the industry.
 
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Black Magisterialness said:
As an FF fan, anyone that says FF is relegated to turn-based isn't really that smart of an FF fan. Nor did they pay attention to the series' development ideologies.

FF has always changed battle systems outside of the first 5 games because of hardware limitations. But if you then look at the differences from 7 to 16, each game slowly started to chip away at turn-based. Why? Because as a mechanic its not as universal as RPG fans like to think it is. And take 7R series which are universally lauded, one of the big positives is the dynamism of the battle mechanics.

Now, Clair Obscur is getting love because it does 5 things fundamentally well:

1. It's got a very unique art style that sets it apart from its contemporaries.

2. It's battle system is incredibly unique, despite being turn based. Adding in ATB parry/dodge means you're engaged even when it's not your turn.

3. Fights themselves are VERY well paced. Random encounters don't feel like slogs and boss fights are based around sometimes singular mechanics.

4. Great score that fits the world well and is unapologetic in its Frenchness. (Like how Persona or Yakuza are unapologetically Japanese.)

5. The pacing is awesome. You always feel like there's something to do and you're always moving forward, even when you're in the open world.


- this is just good game design and isn't necessarily something exclusive to RPGs. Any game that does these things will be a good game. But it's also just exciting to see what small teams are doing. This is fundamentally good for the industry.
Click to expand...
This should be the only discussion surrounding this game.

No one is picking up this game thinking "OMG this is the FF I've always wanted!"
 
Black Magisterialness

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gurf said:
This should be the only discussion surrounding this game.

No one is picking up this game thinking "OMG this is the FF I've always wanted!"
Click to expand...

Exactly, if ANYTHING this is the game I wanted Metaphor: ReFantazio to be. While that game is good...I wouldn't put it on the same level as Persona 5. Or this....

The battle system in Claire is so good. I'm ACTIVELY looking for fights.
 
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Black Magisterialness said:
As an FF fan, anyone that says FF is relegated to turn-based isn't really that smart of an FF fan. Nor did they pay attention to the series' development ideologies.

FF has always changed battle systems outside of the first 5 games because of hardware limitations. But if you then look at the differences from 7 to 16, each game slowly started to chip away at turn-based. Why? Because as a mechanic its not as universal as RPG fans like to think it is. And take 7R series which are universally lauded, one of the big positives is the dynamism of the battle mechanics.

Now, Clair Obscur is getting love because it does 5 things fundamentally well:

1. It's got a very unique art style that sets it apart from its contemporaries.

2. It's battle system is incredibly unique, despite being turn based. Adding in ATB parry/dodge means you're engaged even when it's not your turn.

3. Fights themselves are VERY well paced. Random encounters don't feel like slogs and boss fights are based around sometimes singular mechanics.

4. Great score that fits the world well and is unapologetic in its Frenchness. (Like how Persona or Yakuza are unapologetically Japanese.)

5. The pacing is awesome. You always feel like there's something to do and you're always moving forward, even when you're in the open world.


- this is just good game design and isn't necessarily something exclusive to RPGs. Any game that does these things will be a good game. Take Sea of Stars and give it an art style, score and engine like Clair Obscur and it's just as lauded. But it's also just exciting to see what small teams are doing. This is fundamentally good for the industry.
Click to expand...
Sea of stars was another modern RPG done right :ohlawd:
 
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Rebirth probably going to sell 5m on Switch 2 and another 7 copies on Series X so you dumbfukks acting like it flopped are going to look stupid as fukk :mjlol:

Also it probably would've sold 5m+ week 1 on Ps5 if it launched at Clairs pricepoint
 
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