"'Clair Obscur: Expedition 33' utterly destroys Square Enix's gaslighting over Final Fantasy turn-based combat"-Windows Central

[Styles]

SE already made their version of this game. Linear with very melancholic tones and turn based with a beautiful OST. It’s called FF13. It got massive hate.. Again, the biggest issue was the story was trash. The reason why they even changed course was because of the discourse from game. People loved the combat, just as they do with Remake/Rebirth.

Again, SE is on the right track. They have multiple turn based games. FF is their AAA experimental franchise, and that’s fine. Not to mention the rumored FF9 remake will be turn based.

Turn based is not why FF is taking Ls. This discourse is dumb, and it’s been repeated from the same dudes who been hating on FF since 2010.

 

[Th3G3ntleman]

SE already made their version of this game. Linear with very melancholic tones and turn based with a beautiful OST. It’s called FF13. It got massive hate.. Again, the biggest issue was the story was trash. The reason why they even changed course was because of the discourse from game. People loved the combat, just as they do with Remake/Rebirth.

Again, SE is on the right track. They have multiple turn based games. FF is their AAA experimental franchise, and that’s fine. Not to mention the rumored FF9 remake will be turn based.

Turn based is not why FF is taking Ls. This discourse is dumb, and it’s been repeated from the same dudes who been hating on FF since 2010.

Eh one can make an argument that you probably shouldn't be experimenting with your tentpole franchise. I'm not of that camp myself but I can see how one can make that argument.

To me the biggest failures of the post FF10 games is the progression. They all feel like just minor variations of the sphere grid from 10. This node gives you 10 HP , etc.. FF16 stripped that away for some bare bones shyt involving skills which in retrospect was terrible.

 

[CarltonJunior]

I would honestly say that Persona is the face of the JRPG genre right now.

Id say persona is mahomes and FF is tom brady

Persona is a newer face that people still want to see how their career develops (yes I know persona has been around since the 90s but it didnt become mainstream until 5)

FF is a GOAT and the face of the game to most (well ignore the fact that tom is retired for this comparison)

 

[MeachTheMonster]

They were talking about their HD games segment, not Rebirth specifically meeting expectations.

Cac tweet brehs.

If their HD games segment struggled in the midst of their biggest HD game being out.

Then what actually struggled

Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth Sales Are Fine, but It's No Dragon's Dogma 2 - IGN

For weeks, analysts and fans have been discussing Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth's potential underperformance amid worries this might impact the future of the 7 Remake trilogy. Today, we got a little more data on what's really going on here - though the jury is still out on how publisher Square Enix...

www.ign.com

He told us that Rebirth sales in the U.S. are down a double-digit percentage when compared to both Remake and Final Fantasy 16 over the same time in market -

You can split hairs over the semantics of what you want to call this.

But the declining sales for the series are obvious and they are supposed to be making all these changes to GROW the series.

It’s obviously not working how they thought it would.

Why are some of you so hooked on defending square here?

 

[hex]

They were talking about their HD games segment, not Rebirth specifically meeting expectations.

"Rebirth" and 16 were the biggest most expensive games in that category.

Also keep in mind the "'Rebirth' did fine" Tweet from December 2024 was after the PC version pre-orders went live. Which explains the timing of the "we can't justify exclusivity" part of his quote.

Fred.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

SE already made their version of this game. Linear with very melancholic tones and turn based with a beautiful OST. It’s called FF13. It got massive hate.. Again, the biggest issue was the story was trash. The reason why they even changed course was because of the discourse from game. People loved the combat, just as they do with Remake/Rebirth.

Again, SE is on the right track. They have multiple turn based games. FF is their AAA experimental franchise, and that’s fine. Not to mention the rumored FF9 remake will be turn based.

Turn based is not why FF is taking Ls. This discourse is dumb, and it’s been repeated from the same dudes who been hating on FF since 2010.

13 got hate because they stripped EVERYTHING else out that made a final fantasy game.

People aren’t just clamoring for “turn based” they want a final fantasy game like the FF games that made them fall in love with the franchise.

And even with all the hate it was still lots more successful than recent FF games.

Again. these changes were supposed to grow the franchise. That’s clearly not happening right now.

 

[Fatboi1]

"Rebirth" was the biggest most expensive game in that category.

Also keep in mind the "'Rebirth' did fine" Tweet from December 2024 was after
the PC version pre-orders went live. Which explains the timing of the "we can't justify exclusivity" part of his quote.

Fred.

The original discourse was that "Rebirth flopped" with no data. You pointed to the report saying their profits did not meet expectations but that was in regards to their HD games segment. Y'all even threw out an incorrect 3.5 million sales number that wasn't even for Rebirth but for Remake on PS4.

The point about HD profit coming below expectations despite the release of FF16 and FF7 Rebirth, Square also clarified in the report was due to a "decline in MMO and Smart Devices/PC Browser sales", not necessarily because of the big releases themselves.

The part of this is in reference to the PC version's preorders is false as the interview itself was speaking about the supposed "Poor sales" narrative for the PS5 game.

In a recent interview with IGN Brazil, Kitase spoke about Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth’s “poor” sales. While it didn’t meet Square Enix’s expectations, being recognized as one of the three best-selling games in Japan’s PlayStation Partners Awards gives him “certainty” that the game did well.

“In terms of sales expectations, Sony held the PlayStation Partners Awards in Japan, and there was a category (Grand Award) in which they awarded the three best-selling games, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth was one of them alongside Black Myth: Wukong and Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree,” Kitase said. “So, I think being recognized in this aspect gives me the certainty that we have reached a certain level.”



Kitase may be “confident and happy” with Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth’s sales, but that doesn’t mean it can’t do better. The game’s sales arguably could have been much better if it did not launch exclusively on PS5. The producer believes games should be offered to “as many people as possible.”

“While we are confident and happy that we are reaching a certain level of sales, it is clear that with the modernity of games, we cannot be exclusive to a single platform,” Kitase said. “I think we need to offer the game to as many players as possible.”

Why would it be talking about PC pre-orders and then talk about that doesn't mean it can't do better? It's obvious the discourse is about the PS5 version and not PC. Square Enix and "sales expectations" is literally something Square says about EVERY game release. They never have their "expectations" met. All I'm saying is claiming that Rebirth "flopped" is a bit much without the exact numbers.

 

[Fatboi1]

Cac tweet brehs.

If their HD games segment struggled in the midst of their biggest HD game being out.

Then what actually struggled

Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth Sales Are Fine, but It's No Dragon's Dogma 2 - IGN

For weeks, analysts and fans have been discussing Final Fantasy 7: Rebirth's potential underperformance amid worries this might impact the future of the 7 Remake trilogy. Today, we got a little more data on what's really going on here - though the jury is still out on how publisher Square Enix...

www.ign.com

You can split hairs over the semantics of what you want to call this.

But the declining sales for the series are obvious and they are supposed to be making all these changes to GROW the series.

It’s obviously not working how they thought it would.

Why are some of you so hooked on defending square here?

Some of you guys are fukking stupid man lol.
I'm posting stuff as recent as of DECEMBER 2024 and you post some old shyt from Spring 2024 to counter what I posted.

You say "cac tweets" then post a "cac article" and the info they posted is from a "cac".
Here's the same "cac" from a few months ago, Feb 2025.



The "cac" the IGN article is quoting said they were good in response to someone saying the PS5 version did not sell good.

Y'all cooked man, go head. Yeah Rebirth flopped and Square is about to go out of business. Y'all don't know how to filter through info. Just see a headline and go "OH LOOK SQUIRELL! "

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Some of you guys are fukking stupid man lol.
I'm posting stuff as recent as of DECEMBER 2024 and you post some old shyt from Spring 2024 to counter what I posted.

You say "cac tweets" then post a "cac article" and the info they posted is from a "cac".
Here's the same "cac" from a few months ago, Feb 2025.



The "cac tweet" the IGN article is quoting said they were good.


Y'all cooked man, go head. Yeah Rebirth flopped and Square is about to go out of business.

You keep reaching for cac opinions to rationalize the numbers in a positive light

I’m only talking about the numbers without a spin on it. The franchise is shrinking while square is making drastic changes to grow it. Their plan is clearly not working.

You wanna fight over whether to call it a “flop” or not.

It can be the 10th best selling game on playstation AND be selling way less than its predecessors

If the 10th best selling game in an off year sounds good to you then great i guess.

Square ain’t throw turn based combat in combat for 10th place tho

 

[Black Magisterialness]

You would think this Clair game sold 20m the way people are acting

And what's wild is that the mainline FF games hover between 7-10 million sold period. Besides 14, which has sold like 33 million copies and is a sub model so they get money every month too. RPGs never moved units like that. A flop for FF is 5 million. Which I don't think a mainline FF has done since damn near the 80's

RPGs (as we are thinking of here like Clair Obscur, FF and Persona) are the fine dining/haute couture of gaming. They will never have the mass appeal that other games have. The few people that do invest the time into them laud them as great. And eventually, most of their tropes get filtered down into the masses the same way truffle oil and avocado did in the 2010s.

Weather that's graphically, or through "RPG" mechanics or battle systems. Hell, even the musicians that work on RPGs get lauded significantly more than their action game counterparts (outside of Koji Kondo, Yuzo Koshiro, etc)

 

[Fatboi1]

You keep reaching for cac opinions to rationalize the numbers in a positive light

I’m only talking about the numbers without a spin on it. The franchise is shrinking while square is making drastic changes to grow it. Their plan is clearly not working.

You wanna fight over whether to call it a “flop” or not.

It can be the 10th best selling game on playstation AND be selling way less than its predecessors

If the 10th best selling game in an off year sounds good to you then great i guess.

Square ain’t throw turn based combat in combat for 10th place tho

You posted the same "cac" that's quoted in the "Cac article" you posted. All you're posting here is conjecture. You're trying to add more to the discussion by talking about past generations and other shyt that's not what's being discussed here because you can clearly see the bullshyt you posted was incorrect now you're trying to save face by going on about "bb-b-b-but it sold less than FFXIII!!" ignoring the context of consoles not being as big in Japan today as they were in 2013 and earlier.

Opinion disqualified.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

You posted the same "cac" that's quoted in the "Cac article" you posted. All you're posting here is conjecture. Opinion disqualified.

I posted NUMBERS.

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

You post a tweet with some cac in the caption saying “uhh actually……”

I’m talking numbers straight up. Don’t need a twitter fanboy to decipher them and make them feel better.

The franchise is shrinking. PERIOD

 

[Fatboi1]

I posted NUMBERS.

Why is that so hard for you to understand.

You post a tweet with some cac in the caption saying “uhh actually……”

I’m talking numbers straight up. Don’t need a twitter fanboy to decipher them and make them feel better.

The franchise is shrinking. PERIOD

What NUMBER from the "cac" Mat Piscatella was posted about FF Rebirth's sales?

What's the NUMBER of sales that were posted that I somehow missed?
You posting "NUMBERS" about past FF games and talking about franchise shrinking when the TOPIC is about "Rebirth flopping" from false narratives and No NUMBERS being posted. KEEP UP Meach, the conversation is talking about "FFVII Rebirth flopped". There's no NUMBER of units sold out right now.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

What NUMBER from the "cac" Mat Piscatella was posted?
What's the NUMBER of sales that were posted that I somehow missed?

He told us that Rebirth sales in the U.S. are down a double-digit percentage when compared to both Remake and Final Fantasy 16 over the same time in market -

This is not an opinion. This is a factual statement. No interpretation or opinion needed.

 

[Fatboi1]

This is not an opinion. This is a factual statement. No interpretation or opinion needed.

Rebirth sales in the U.S. being down a double digit percentage, a message from a few months after release is not a NUMBER is you initially said. Is this the quality of discourse on here? Statements =/= numbers. Also, it's OLD information. How you choose to say THAT'S a factual statement from early 2024 to then in 2025 to disqualify that SAME source is absolute nasty work. So are Rebirth sales down double digits in the U.S. as of today? What are the NUMBERS you keep posting about?

Notice how nobody in here can dispute the information that were posted recently but keep dumbing down on old articles from early 2024 to substantiate? You guys are making something way more complicated than it needs to be. YES FF isn't selling as much as the older titles did from the previous generations, that's NOT what I'm talking about though.