City of Portland set to re-fund the police

[storyteller]

read the first two...and i agree that we can't draw conclusions about the effectiveness of budget cuts that were rapidly reversed. i think programs like this can work and that we should remove social service-oriented calls from police.

that said, the uptick in property crime, robbery (and assault) and vandalism were happening in the bay pre-pandemic, so, at least for the bay area - i can't speak on all parts of the country - it's unfair to wash away the citizen desires to refund as a response to a pandemic induced crime surge. London Breed's approval ratings were under pressure prior to the pandemic. but i will say that bay has a few different issues making this all so tenuous - the homeless, rising crime, and the amount people pay to live there and their demands that that cost comes with safe, usable spaces.

I think the biggest challenge is that there's no one-size-fits-all approach on these solutions. I'm not mad at responding to upticks of crime with more funding, but I am frustrated that a lot of recent increases got pinned to defund despite happening across a cities that did and didn't defund alike. I understand heads pushing pause on experiments while things are messy and rough; but it's the misuse of pandemic patterns to attack reforms that barely got off the ground that I tend to push back on.


I'm also inclined toward the social service and community solutions thanks to working in the same community my family grew up in and with close proximity to a shelter that particularly helps mentally ill folk. I see a LOT of heads that don't need police, but do need help.

 

[No1]

L

read the first two...and i agree that we can't draw conclusions about the effectiveness of budget cuts that were rapidly reversed. i think programs like this can work and that we should remove social service-oriented calls from police.

that said, the uptick in property crime, robbery (and assault) and vandalism were happening in the bay pre-pandemic, so, at least for the bay area - i can't speak on all parts of the country - it's unfair to wash away the citizen desires to refund as a response to a pandemic induced crime surge. London Breed's approval ratings were under pressure prior to the pandemic. but i will say that bay has a few different issues making this all so tenuous - the homeless, rising crime, and the amount people pay to live there and their demands that that cost comes with safe, usable spaces.

i think the beginning of your second sentence is the key. Those things predate any movement to reallocate funds. The problem is that people want policies designed to try to fix decades old problems to produce results overnight. We don’t practice patience with progressivism and we do a poor job of marking the progress and making the case.

 

[Voice of Reason]

AD is playing with confidence with Bron back

 

[Yapdatfool]

We really wont ever see change until we ALL stop benefiting from poor people being put through the system and staying poor financially and emotionally.
And this is from the criminal justice system to the girl that graduated college to the blue collar family one missed check away from poverty. Raise the floor and everyone/everything rises with it.

 

[EndDomination]

Next to legalizing illegal immigrants, this might have been the dumbest liberal proposal in the past 100 years.

Taking the funding used for overpolicing and putting it toward social programs and services is a flat-out fantastic idea, only right-wing dullards like your ilk think otherwise.
Doesn't seem you have even a *hint* of an understanding about the politics of police funding, or of thei history of immigration here in the U.S., for matter.

Defund was stupid

Greater funding for social services and housing, that has been shown across every single major study to improve the quality of life, crime rate, and health of the populace is "stupid?" Sounds like you needed greater funding in your childhood schools if these are the thoughts you're expressing as an adult.

They tried it and it didn't work. No need to be obstinate. I'm down with fundemental police reform and accountability (improved routine training on conflict de-escliation & force, a major improvement on the transparency of internal investigations, and better screening for people with authority abuse issues), but understaffing doesn't seem to be the solution. You'll have an overworked stressed out police force, that will hire anyone off the street with minimal training, that doesn't sound good for anybody.

The City of Portland cut its police funding?
By how much?
And what was the result?
Would love to see you answer the questions.

the ideas on which it was based - taking funding from police for non-police work to fund municipal social emergency response teams - made a lot of sense, tho it definitely isn't something that could happen overnight. only the slogan was stupid and huge misfire

The slogan wasn't the issue. Any slogan would have been misappropriated and demonized.
shyt, "police reform" has been used to increase and militarize the police for decades.

These idiots will never admit it. Never forget this shyt came from affluent whites who live in suburbs or gentrified cities. End result was black people being hurt by crime (and cops).

Not even remotely close to the truth.

 

[EndDomination]

i was in the "liberal capital" of the bay where cities actually defunded police depts, where there are strong direct lines from grassroots orgs to the general populace, and it was still an overly confusing and divisive term even if you did know the intent. not sure it forced any conversations with new parties (ie people who didn't already see a need for reform or those who lean into beliefs that would expose them to this topic), the slogan immediately turned plenty of people off, even once they knew the true intent. the slogan was stupid, getting people talking doesn't mean you got [new/unengaged/fence sitters/opposition] people listening.

What cities in the Bay defunded the police?

 

[EndDomination]

I guess the real question is, will they see tangible improvements by refunding and what will they look like.

If one believes that more incarcerated Black people is a good thing, then indeed there will be tangible improvements along that line.
Otherwise, there will be no tangible improvements at all, and any reductions in crime, which happen due to far more widespread effects like the available economic opportunities and previously implemented social programmes, will be immediately attributed to the increased funding. Any increases in crime will be attributed to outside factors that "never could have been predicted."

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Another big play is the key on DA races and get more progressive DA's in big roles. Larry Krasner seems like a good model.

Pennsylvania been trying to get him out the paint. But I agree. Easily top DA in the country, based from what I've heard.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Taking the funding used for overpolicing and putting it toward social programs and services is a flat-out fantastic idea, only right-wing dullards like your ilk think otherwise.
Doesn't seem you have even a *hint* of an understanding about the politics of police funding, or of thei history of immigration here in the U.S., for matter.

Greater funding for social services and housing, that has been shown across every single major study to improve the quality of life, crime rate, and health of the populace is "stupid?" Sounds like you needed greater funding in your childhood schools if these are the thoughts you're expressing as an adult.

The City of Portland cut its police funding?
By how much?
And what was the result?
Would love to see you answer the questions.

The slogan wasn't the issue. Any slogan would have been misappropriated and demonized.
shyt, "police reform" has been used to increase and militarize the police for decades.

Not even remotely close to the truth.

yea it’s stupid

and what are you going to do about crime

 

[No1]

yea it’s stupid

and what are you going to do about crime

You have so little to say it’s remarkable. But I’m tapping out HL anyhow. @mastermind can keep fighting these fights with bad faith actors.

 

[mastermind]

You have so little to say it’s remarkable. But I’m tapping out HL anyhow. @mastermind can keep fighting these fights with bad faith actors.

Don't at me. I'm not engaging with that dude.

 

[No1]

Don't at me. I'm not engaging with that dude.

I’m saying in general, it’s like talking in circles @ this point. It’s like people see “progressive” and look right past whatever is said and return to their talking points. It’s just boring. From “know-the-ledge” until around 2016 - progressives kind of ran this space, let these center-right and straight up right people have their go . I’ve never seen this many black people supposedly under 40 carrying water for Democrats.

 

[mastermind]

I’m saying in general, it’s like talking in circles @ this point. It’s like people see “progressive” and look right past whatever is said and return to their talking points. It’s just boring. From “know-the-ledge” until around 2016 - progressives kind of ran this space, let these center-right and straight up right people have their go . I’ve never seen this many black people supposedly under 40 carrying water for Democrats.

It's because of Trump.

I was listening to the This iS Revolution podcast yesterday and they had Sam Seder on to talk about leftist media. In the aughts, being anti-war made you a progressive in this country. That's it, lol. If you think about it, after Mike Brown, just using "woke" language made you progressive---which is what a lot of black "politically active" people in this country have done including many in this forum---and the last five years being anti-trump made people think they were fighting for some cause. There is no depth to any of this thinking and a lot of our folks.

 

[No1]

It's because of Trump.

I was listening to the This iS Revolution podcast yesterday and they had Sam Seder on to talk about leftist media. In the aughts, being anti-war made you a progressive in this country. That's it, lol. If you think about it, after Mike Brown, just using "woke" language made you progressive---which is what a lot of black "politically active" people in this country have done including many in this forum---and the last five years being anti-trump made people think they were fighting for some cause. There is no depth to any of this thinking and a lot of our folks.

I mean, I guess but how you as a black person see the effect of stop and frisk and then be rallying against defund the police instead of spending your energy trying to figure out a better message. There’s more time discussing terms than actual policies or ideas. It’s like the terminology itself is the political fight and there’s nothing under it. Like, if you want to be mad at the messaging then I agree but being mad the people in the streets and not empathizing at all is strange and callous. It’s not like the people who are upset are some strong advocates of criminal justice reform or whatever.


Or knowing about how black millennial net worth is like 10 percent of our white peers due to student debt - how the fukk are you in here so cavalier claiming it’s some sort of bougie issue? We have a lower net worth than our college educated black folks from 30 years ago. Meanwhile, white millennials are nearly caught up to where their folks were at. It’s just on issue after issue - I just don’t get and have not come across a bunch of young black people who share these stances. Skepticism? Yes. Believing that progressive shyt won’t happen? Certainly. But being outright hostile and apologetic for a party that neglects is because we are a captured electorate? Ridiculous. I just have no interest in talking to these sorts of people anymore.

 

[mastermind]

I mean, I guess but how you as a black person see the effect of stop and frisk and then be rallying against defund the police instead of spending your energy trying to figure out a better message. There’s more time discussing terms than actual policies or ideas. It’s like the terminology itself is the political fight and there’s nothing under it. Like, if you want to be mad at the messaging then I agree but being mad the people in the streets and not empathizing at all is strange and callous. It’s not like the people who are upset are some strong advocates of criminal justice reform or whatever.

Or knowing about how black millennial net worth is like 10 percent of our white peers due to student debt - how the fukk are you in here so cavalier claiming it’s some sort of bougie issue? We have a lower net worth than our college educated black folks from 30 years ago. Meanwhile, white millennials are nearly caught up to where their folks were at. It’s just on issue after issue - I just don’t get and have not come across a bunch of young black people who share these stances. Skepticism? Yes. Believing that progressive shyt won’t happen? Certainly. But being outright hostile and apologetic for a party that neglects is because we are a captured electorate? Ridiculous. I just have no interest in talking to these sorts of people anymore.

The ones who have made it among black people don't give a fukk about poor black people except to co-opt their struggles for their own gains.