Can we ban the words "bad writing", "plot armor", "rushed" and "fan service" from The Film Room?

[jwinfield]

Plot armor is when Jamie is posted on a wall with one arm(not swinging arm) fighting offs 1000 whites and survives

And the only reasoning being provided for how that makes sense, given we saw the entire Dothraki army get wiped out in 30 seconds, is that you can't kill all the main characters, there's three episodes left.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

Plot armor is when Jamie is posted on a wall with one arm(not swinging arm) fighting offs 1000 whites and survives

That's just bad writing. The writer couldn't think of a thing to do to keep Jamie and Brienne occupied yet still overwhelmed for any period of time. Perhaps in the script they're not even mentioned and the director/editor decided to insert shots of them in that static situation.

 

[TheGodling]

All the things mentioned by OP are genuine complaints though.

Are some of the words overused? Sure. But invalid? Hell no, Hollywood & co. produce trash every day.

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

Fan service really means nothing. All people are saying is i recognize that reference, therefore it's bad. As if that isn't the entire point of a shared continuity. If there was no Fan Service, it would be just a bunch of films with no relationship to each other which would be terrible.
Imagine if Star Wars or the MCU was done like Final Fantasy, with each film the series being it's own separate universe having no connection to each other. What would be the point?

People complained about the avengers not showing up in Iron Man 3 to help Tony Stark protect the president but then turned around shouted fan service when Falcon showed up in Antman.

Lyanna Mormont is a clear example of fan service. Based on everything I've heard/read from directors, she initially was only meant to have a short stay on the show. Then the fans had an very strong reaction to her initial scenes, she became a favorite and they brought her more and more into the show. This ended with a ridiculous death scene where despite initially being swatted away by a giant and having her midsection crushed, she's able to go out like a hero and stab a giant in the eye.

That entire scene, even though it makes no sense and adds nothing valuable to the story is fan service.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Can we add “Mary sue” to that as well. There are clearly some knowledgeable film posters here, but others get ahold of a term and b*stardize it.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Lyanna Mormont is a clear example of fan service. Based on everything I've heard/read from directors, she initially was only meant to have a short stay on the show. Then the fans had an very strong reaction to her initial scenes, she became a favorite and they brought her more and more into the show. This ended with a ridiculous death scene where despite initially being swatted away by a giant and having her midsection crushed, she's able to go out like a hero and stab a giant in the eye.

That entire scene, even though it makes no sense and adds nothing valuable to the story is fan service.

Her killing a giant on the brink of death makes no sense in the midst of a battle where people are fighting dead people, one being a giant, controlled by ice wizards while dragons fly above. Got it...that’s why her killing him doesn’t make sense.

 

[gogogubari]

Don’t forget Deus Ex Machina. I’ve heard that phrase so many times since Sunday

 

[Starman]

Can we add “Mary sue” to that as well. There are clearly some knowledgeable film posters here, but others get ahold of a term and b*stardize it.

Get mad at the critics instead of what they're critiquing, brehettes.

End game wasn't perfect and the lates GOT ep damned sure wasn't either. We should all constantly demand better products.

 

[Mr Hate Coffee]

All of these terms have relevance when used correctly.

For example, in GoT... Lyanna Mormont’s death is fan service. The show runners literally said as much.

Plot armor is real too. In most shows you know the main characters won’t die, even if put in ridiculous situations.

 

[nieman]

It's just such a lazy term to me. Like use your adjectives, brehs. What are the specific gripes from a narrative and storytelling aspect? I still haven't sat down to articulate my gripes about Endgame yet because I want to be descriptive enough to say what about the 3hr plus movie I had problems with. When cats start talking about the speed that ravens fly to shyt on a show, I know we're past silly. I see cats talk about GoT not having the books to pull from and thus the writing is poor. In those very books, the writer got himself stuck in a position where all the characters were essentially meeting up in one place. The "Meereenese Knot" isn't some sex position like they say in the show. It's a term coined because so many characters and story arcs were converging towards Dany in Meereene. He wrote himself into a corner. Books will always be more descriptive than TV or movies since that's how the medium works. Regardless, you can't have a book series that's merely about setup and intrigue without any payoff. The first 5/6 seasons was plotting and maneuvering. That shyt has to have a climactic conclusion. It's not bad writing to see the payoff.

That's really all that it is. They should've paid attention in English class.

True but its issues are deeper than being a Guardian clone(even if thats what it is). The whole plot was bad writing. The film came across as a low-concept movie that was carried by the Squad due to how choppy the plot was. Bad writing is a cop out term, but I wouldnt fault someone for using it to describe the movie and KIM


Villain alone was and . Lile you said Guardians benefited from the MCU. What DC did was like trying to start out a spiderman franchise with a Sinister 6 movie. Build to that shyt, don't rush

Was it bad writing? The plot was generic team of misfits interacting on an impossible mission. They all had distinct personalities and skillsets and it all came together. It's a commonly used device. That's not a badly written plot, it's basic. There's nothing exceptional, but nothing horrible. They had a mission, they had their reasons. How well it was executed on screen is an entirely different thing. You can blame plenty of other issues before coming to "bad writing." You can say that the characters' personalities weren't interesting enough. You can say that aside from Will and his side jawn Robbie, they had 0 chemistry. You can say that the Guardians-influenced music got in the way. You can say that there weren't enough engaging action sequences. You can say that the origin sequences were edited in places that take you out of the movie.

For fiction, there's mainly 2 types of writing styles. There's character driven, and there's plot driven. Suicide Squad was meant to be character driven, but the characters couldn't carry it. Guardians grabbed you with the characters, and added music as another character.

 

[Mr Hate Coffee]

Her killing a giant on the brink of death makes no sense in the midst of a battle where people are fighting dead people, one being a giant, controlled by ice wizards while dragons fly above. Got it...that’s why her killing him doesn’t make sense.

In the rules of that universe, yes it makes no sense.

You can be a fan of something and critique it. The producers literally said “We wanted to give her a good sendoff for the fans.”

 

[Ineedmoney504]

And the only reasoning for how that makes sense given we just saw the entire Dothraki army get wiped out in 30 seconds is that you can't kill all the main characters, there's three episodes left.

That's just bad writing. The writer couldn't think of a thing to do to keep Jamie and Brienne occupied yet still overwhelmed for any period of time. Perhaps in the script they're not even mentioned and the director/editor decided to insert shots of them in that static situation.

Which is plot armor. Regardless what they faced with they gonna live. I mean they could have put them in a less terrible situation where they wasn’t covered in whites pressed against the wall

Sam on the ground stabbing whites with a knife

 

[BelowTheMasonDixon]

Don’t forget Deus Ex Machina. I’ve heard that phrase so many times since Sunday

Yall are aware these terms exist for a reason right? and Deus ex machina is a literary term

 

[gogogubari]

Yall are aware these terms exist for a reason right? and Deus ex machina is a literary term

I know they are real words with real meaning. I’m just talking about the increase of people using them now.

It’s like when “it’s lit” became the go-to.
I’m just tired of ppl copying off other people w/o even thinking.

Of course plot armor is real. Do I have to see plot armor in EVERY SINGLE POST? Be original, my guy.

 

[Sad Bunny]

A victim of trying to copy Guardians of the Galaxy. The characters weren't organically introduced. We had no real connection to them. While the soundtrack in Guardians was literally a plot point, the music in Suicide Squad was extremely forced. Guardians also benefited from being part of an established movie universe which inherently made the viewer invested in the plot and villain whereas I can't remember the villain in SS except for The Joker(an already iconic character)

That took me 3 minutes to type, and "bad writing" wasn't used once, my dude

I was when all the teammates suddenly became best friends and wanted to stand up for each other

shyt wasn't good