can we agree that John Calipari and Roy Williams are not good coaches?

[Heelmatic]

Harrison Barnes was a pre-season all american as a freshman. shyt is the equivalent of John Wall coming back a second season. Guess ol roy just didn't nurture that top pick talent in him :smugobama:

Pre-season rankings don't mean shyt. Barnes could've left after one year and been a top 2 pick, instead he chose to come back and try to win a championship.

Some people had Austin Rivers as the #1 recruit, he stayed one year and went straight to the NBA. How's that working out for him? Josh Selby, same exact story. I can name a ton of top 10 high school players who left after one season and won't ever be shyt in the league.

Anybody ever think Kendall Marshall, 4 star PG who is slow, can't shoot, can't play defense, would be a lottery pick? Roy made that happen after only 2 years in school. And don't you think if Roy "held players back", he would've made Marshall stay? Kendall wasn't ready for the NBA and would've helped this years team out big time. So why didn't Roy make him stay if he has so much power over these kids decisions?

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Pre-season rankings don't mean shyt. Barnes could've left after one year and been a top 2 pick, instead he chose to come back and try to win a championship.

Some people had Austin Rivers as the #1 recruit, he stayed one year and went straight to the NBA. How's that working out for him? Josh Selby, same exact story. I can name a ton of top 10 high school players who left after one season and won't ever be shyt in the league.

Anybody ever think Kendall Marshall, 4 star PG who is slow, can't shoot, can't play defense, would be a lottery pick? Roy made that happen after only 2 years in school. And don't you think if Roy "held players back", he would've made Marshall stay? Kendall wasn't ready for the NBA and would've helped this years team out big time. So why didn't Roy make him stay if he has so much power over these kids decisions?

I see a common trend amongs these busts, they didn't go to Kentucky

Josh Selby and Xavier Henry in particular chose another school over KY and see how that turned out for them

 

[FreedS[ohh]lave]

Zagoria ‏@AdamZagoria
When @22wiggins does announce, it doesn't sound like there will be any presser or TV announcement. He may just Tweet it.

 

[Heelmatic]

I see a common trend amongs these busts, they didn't go to Kentucky

Josh Selby and Xavier Henry in particular chose another school over KY and see how that turned out for them

Terrance Jones was top 10, Teague was top 10, Orton top 15

 

[Walt]

Give Bo Ryan and Izzo a team with one senior (coming off an ACL tear)

A team of first and second year players won a title last year. Senior leadership is or isn't important depending on the context.

a freshman pg who weighs 160 lbs soaking wet who has to play 30 plus minutes right out the gate cause of no back up,

Which is another way of saying one of the top PG recruits of his class. Bo Ryan's offense is run by a lightly recruited sophomore PG who barely played a meaningful minute last year. He has a true freshman getting major minutes on the wing. The senior leader of the team missed the first two months of the season with a horrific leg injury. By no means is his team laden with future NBAers, and yet there they are beating Indiana twice.

Carolina has a lot of talent on their team - more than Wisconsin, and that's not questionable. PJ looks a lot better because Roy is finally using him correctly. Bullock is very talented, Macadoo was a pre-season All American. Leslie Mac is talented and Roy has never gotten anything out of him. Maybe it's Leslie wilting under the big lights, maybe not. But there's plenty of talent on that team, and there's no reason for them to be getting blown the fukk out as much as they have. Just as that NIT season was embarrassing, and last year's team was inexcusably inconsistent.

The whole "slow to adjust in games and over the course of the season" mantra is a by product of people falling in love with over coaching.

No, it's a direct product of Roy having trouble making adjustments.

Ultimately this comes down to 18-21 year olds.

No, ultimately it comes down to a mix of college players playing up to their abilities and coaches figuring out how to best put them in positions to do so. Chaka smart, Brad Stevens, Tom Izzo, Bo Ryan, Rick Majerus (rip) etc didn't get their reputations because they happened to luck into poised 18-21 year olds. Carolina consistently gets better recruits than 90% of college basketball teams, just as Kansas did under Roy. If he's going to get credit for winning with a talent advantage, he's open to criticism for losing with a talent advantage.

 

[Rekkapryde]

Salute @Walt da gawd for spitting that real....

































*climbs throw @Walt's window *

 

[Walt]

Salute @Walt da gawd for spitting that real....


*climbs throw @Walt's window *

:Oh shyt:

People who never heard that show gonna think you're posting some homo type shyt. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I root for Carolina. I just have never been a dude who has sacred cows. I've seen Roy doing goofy shyt since Kansas. I don't think he's bottom of the barrel or anything, he's just kind of like a Joe Torre type for me - you look really good when your team gets top talent year in, year out, and people starts crowning you despite your deficiencies.

 

[Rekkapryde]

:Oh shyt:

People who never heard that show gonna think you're posting some homo type shyt. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I root for Carolina. I just have never been a dude who has sacred cows. I've seen Roy doing goofy shyt since Kansas. I don't think he's bottom of the barrel or anything, he's just kind of like a Joe Torre type for me - you look really good when your team gets top talent year in, year out, and people starts crowning you despite your deficiencies.

Good point.

Might holla @ Rick to get a back adjustment.... no homo on that one too.

 

[duncanthetall]

nikkas feelin themselves after an off year. Keep talkin

 

[Champ_KW]

A team of first and second year players won a title last year. Senior leadership is or isn't important depending on the context.



Which is another way of saying one of the top PG recruits of his class. Bo Ryan's offense is run by a lightly recruited sophomore PG who barely played a meaningful minute last year. He has a true freshman getting major minutes on the wing. The senior leader of the team missed the first two months of the season with a horrific leg injury. By no means is his team laden with future NBAers, and yet there they are beating Indiana twice.

Carolina has a lot of talent on their team - more than Wisconsin, and that's not questionable. PJ looks a lot better because Roy is finally using him correctly. Bullock is very talented, Macadoo was a pre-season All American. Leslie Mac is talented and Roy has never gotten anything out of him. Maybe it's Leslie wilting under the big lights, maybe not. But there's plenty of talent on that team, and there's no reason for them to be getting blown the fukk out as much as they have. Just as that NIT season was embarrassing, and last year's team was inexcusably inconsistent.



No, it's a direct product of Roy having trouble making adjustments.



No, ultimately it comes down to a mix of college players playing up to their abilities and coaches figuring out how to best put them in positions to do so. Chaka smart, Brad Stevens, Tom Izzo, Bo Ryan, Rick Majerus (rip) etc didn't get their reputations because they happened to luck into poised 18-21 year olds. Carolina consistently gets better recruits than 90% of college basketball teams, just as Kansas did under Roy. If he's going to get credit for winning with a talent advantage, he's open to criticism for losing with a talent advantage.

And Roy has more jewelry than those coaches you claim are better. Since 2000, there's only 9 coaches to win a 'ship and Roy did it twice. Quit moving the goalpost. Don't come in here singing Izzo praises and highlighting Roy missteps when Izzo lost to the same George Mason squad Roy did. It happens to the best of them. The ultimate goal is championships and producing either NBA players or college graduates. Using high school projections of players as a guide for how they perform in college is a cheap criticism. K is highly regarded but he couldn't get his school's all time leading scorer a ring. Doesnt make him less of a coach. Roy isn't above criticism, but to highlight flaws that every coach has when dealing with 18-21 year olds to say Roy is a bad coach is terrible.

 

[mastermind]

some of you give waaaay too much credit to college coaches with regards to player development and improving of draft stock.

Let just stick to coaching and Xs and Os. Thanks

 

[Walt]

And Roy has more jewelry than those coaches you claim are better.

And Joe Torre has more jewelry than Earl Weaver. And K.C. Jones has more jewelry than Tom Thibbodeau. And Steve Fisher and Jim Harrick both have more jewelry than Rick Majerus, Brad Stevens, Bo Ryan, and Gene Keady combined.

Steve Lavin: During Lavin’s tenure as head coach, the Bruins qualified for six consecutive NCAA Tournaments (1997–2002). During this period, Lavin became one of two coaches (along with Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski) to have led his team to five NCAA Sweet 16s in six seasons. Lavin’s record in the first and second rounds of the NCAA tournament is 10–1. His winning percentage (90.9%) in the first two rounds is second only to Dean Smith in NCAA Tournament history.

I played ball at a high level and I watch it at a high level of understanding. I gives a fukk about "jewelry." I watch basketball and process what I see on the court, period. Joe Torre is no Earl Weaver, jewelry aside. And Roy Williams is not some dynamic, brilliant coach because he took great talent to Final Fours, no more so than he is a shytty coach because he has lost with great talent (a lot, to much worse fukking teams). The good goes with the bad. He's an okay coach. Show me a year he had a team like that Kemba Walker UConn team and took them somewhere significant? Roy isn't a top 10 coach to me, not even close.

Since 2000, there's only 9 coaches to win a 'ship and Roy did it twice. Quit moving the goalpost.

Man, stfu with this cliche debate lingo. I haven't "moved the goalpost." My point has been the same each post. Judging coaches of stacked teams by the talent winning out is outright fukking stupid.

K is highly regarded but he couldn't get his school's all time leading scorer a ring. Doesnt make him less of a coach. Roy isn't above criticism, but to highlight flaws that every coach has when dealing with 18-21 year olds to say Roy is a bad coach is terrible.

I'm a Carolina fan, but Coach K is such a superior coach to Roy that it's not worth discussing. Coach Gut took Carolina on deep tourney runs... was it because he was a top coach, or did he have teams that needed him to just not trip over himself (which he eventually did)?

 

[FreedS[ohh]lave]

some of you give waaaay too much credit to college coaches with regards to player development and improving of draft stock.

Let just stick to coaching and Xs and Os. Thanks

Ive always said that..its how the players skill level/size/positon/ translates to the pros it has little to do with the coach

People just try to use it against coaches they dont like

They use it with Coach K the most as if he is getting all potential nba superstars that hes ruining

 

[mastermind]

Ive always said that..its how the players skill level/size/positon/ translates to the pros it has little to do with the coach

People just try to use it against coaches they dont like

They use it with Coach K the most as if he is getting all potential nba superstars that hes ruining

yeah. There are some cases where you could say it (for instance Gary Williams got Juan Dixon and Lonny Baxter into the NBA. I would have never thought those two would be NBA players, but helped those two work on their games and ran the offense through them. Conversely, I dont give him much credit for Chris Wilcox).

If you have some blue chip/5 star/MickyDs AA type coming in, I am not giving the coach credit for dude being a lotto pick. If you get some unhearlded cat and turn him into a diamond, then we can talk.

But more than that, I really dont care. Lets talk about in-game adjustments, play calling, match ups, etc. Thats what I care about when it comes to college coaches, not improving the draft stock of a 5 star talent.

 

[Flight]

I see a common trend amongs these busts, they didn't go to Kentucky

Josh Selby and Xavier Henry in particular chose another school over KY and see how that turned out for them

Xavier wanted to stay another year but his father forced him to leave. Everybody knew Selby wasn't gonna make it in the league.