I brought it up exactly 4 times in 8K post.... you have me confused.And in this case You did by acting like one.
You still are^
Can Islam Solve All of Africas Issues?
- Thread starter ADevilYouKhow
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I brought it up exactly 4 times in 8K post.... you have me confused.And in this case You did by acting like one.
You still are^
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And in this case You did by acting like one.
You still are^
Acting like one? For asking for sources?
Stop being a c*nt.
Lucky for you these black and brown Muslims came and civilized your people in Europe... you may not be alive today to used cac words like c*nt.
Peace.
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That's why I was asking you for sources. I know you were coming with your cult shyt. The Dark Ages refers to Western Europe losing a connection to Greek and Roman texts and resources. The people were already civilized and not living in caves. The Byzantine Empire and Scandinavia went on.
fukking clown trying to kick revisionist history.
I didn't invent this idea. Even the BBC talks about it. Most people know the history... I didn't say caves.
And I was just messing with you.
We can agree to disagree on the arabs/islam influence into Africa. But if we consider just Africans and implementing islam into their society, which the thread is about, without any outside influences. What do you have to say about the golden age of Africa with the two greatest African empires being the Mali Empire and Songhai Empire, both muslim empires. There has never been any African empire or country great on a large scale as these two, before or even to this day. Give me an example of an African nation that can compare. Songhai was the biggest muslim empire in history. Mansa musa was donating gold to poor arabs. This is the history black children should be taught in school. These were African people practising home grown Islam for generations. There were never controlled by Arabs or any outside empire. These cat's was not to be mess with. They had scholars and artist. After the decline of these empires that's when you started to see European colonial powers come into the area. So if you want to know the effects of African implementing islam these two empires should be studied, not boko haram.
Mali Empire, Mansa Musa - Muslim
Songhai Empire, Sunni Ali Ber - Muslim
this is really A violation of HL rules, breah.We can agree to disagree on the arabs/islam influence into Africa. But if we consider just Africans and implementing islam into their society, which the thread is about, without any outside influences. What do you have to say about the golden age of Africa with the two greatest African empires being the Mali Empire and Songhai Empire, both muslim empires. There has never been any African empire or country great on a large scale as these two, before or even to this day. Give me an example of an African nation that can compare. Songhai was the biggest muslim empire in history. Mansa musa was donating gold to poor arabs. This is the history black children should be taught in school. These were African people practising home grown Islam for generations. There were never controlled by Arabs or any outside empire. These cat's was not to be mess with. They had scholars and artist. After the decline of these empires that's when you started to see European colonial powers come into the area. So if you want to know the effects of African implementing islam these two empires should be studied, not boko haram.
Mali Empire, Mansa Musa - Muslim
Songhai Empire, Sunni Ali Ber - Muslim
mcdivit85
Superstar
We can agree to disagree on the arabs/islam influence into Africa. But if we consider just Africans and implementing islam into their society, which the thread is about, without any outside influences. What do you have to say about the golden age of Africa with the two greatest African empires being the Mali Empire and Songhai Empire, both muslim empires. There has never been any African empire or country great on a large scale as these two, before or even to this day. Give me an example of an African nation that can compare. Songhai was the biggest muslim empire in history. Mansa musa was donating gold to poor arabs. This is the history black children should be taught in school. These were African people practising home grown Islam for generations. There were never controlled by Arabs or any outside empire. These cat's was not to be mess with. They had scholars and artist. After the decline of these empires that's when you started to see European colonial powers come into the area. So if you want to know the effects of African implementing islam these two empires should be studied, not boko haram.
Mali Empire, Mansa Musa - Muslim
Songhai Empire, Sunni Ali Ber - Muslim
Good examples. But are you saying that these men were kings because they were Muslim or in spite of Muslim? I feel like you're intimating that their religious choice is somehow responsible for their success. As if they had not been Muslim and had just been an observer of a traditional African religion that would not have been capable of such great feats. That somehow Islam is what made these men great. I don't believe that, and I pray you don't...especially if you're of African descent as I am.
I agree that our children should be taught this history. Where I think we differ is that you seem to want to tie greatness in Africa to Islam where I want to it Africans themselves...regardless of their religion. I believe Africans have a great history because of their accomplishments....not because of what religion they happened to have been affiliated with when they made the accomplishments. Mansa Musa was a great man who happened to be a Muslim....not a Muslim who happened to be great.
And yes, Mali and Songhai were great empires. But there were others that rivaled those and even surpassed in scope such as Nile Valley civilization that counted over twenty dynasties between the regions of Kemet and Nubia, where were both well before the Islam was even a thought. Add to that these Valley civilizations, which had their headquarters in what is now known as Egypt, had colonies throughout the Middle East. A good book to start with is "When Egypt Ruled the East."
I'm sure this is an obvious question, but are you Muslim?
Peace
No I am not saying that they were king because they were muslim. I am saying that the empires were successful because the empires were Islamic. But my main argument is how can islam be damaging to Africa, when two Islamic empires ruled what is considered the golden age of Africa. You bring up Kemet and Nubia, that is not considered the golden age of Africa, that is considered antiquity. Africa had success after the birth of Jesus Christ. The people of western Africa are culturally distinct from that area and the majority of the African diaspora in the western hemisphere comes from western Africa, and they still retain there cultural influence. I am a African American Muslim and I always attended a majority Nigerian mosque. So I am knowledgeable about western Africa and Islam.
I don't believe you about the Ghanian empire... because you make it seem very weak and clueless and defenseless..... AS most of you are doing with Ancient Africa as a whole.
My people are connected with the beginning of African cultures..... so I'm offended that that's the way that you all think about Africans. Honestly, you nikkas are dissing Ancient Africa very heavily.
And I agree that African war and slavery was much different than arab or CAC slavery. But you're wrong, very wrong about the pre-Islamic conquest.
1) you say they have an 'african way' of doing things, lol.... well WTF was that way because from what I understand Ancient Egypt was so much different than certain tribes in central and southern Africa that it's simply not 'one way'.
2) You blame Islam... the last group (before the cac) to come in and take over.. for Some imaginary 'under spoken about' underestimated destruction of African culture- when, in reality Islamic groups came into Africa facing CHRIstian Kingdoms, lol... and other Kingdoms that had it DIRECTLY in their mission statement to destroy pagan cultures and force conversions, allow for ZERO % of slaves to gain freedom.. and Not promote any sense of unity amongst Africans. none of these groups allows slaves to be freed, allowed African science and technology to reach the golden era type potential.. or allow for Africans to enslave caucasions and asians, or allow for certain African kingdoms to spread as far as Europe. None of these groups that already destroyed African culture did any of this. Many of the things that I see these youtube Afrocentrist claim to be so called 'proud' of is --shyt that happened in post islamic kingdoms... that shyt is very weird to me, because they then diss Islam in the next video.
3)Fact of the matter is .... you're blaming Islam for doing what they did do and also what they didn't do. They approached disconnected, unified, already taken over groups.... and were the only ones to let African cultures co-exist with their culture. Go look up the majority of the places that hold on to some of the Original ideas...... and tell me what you find and notice breh,lol.
Of course it's not....
and honestly, that's some sick shyt, smh.
To be frank, I just think you're having a hard time admitting that the tenacity of Islamic expansion had a part in creating the underdeveloped, chaotic Africa of today. That doesn't make them weak, would you say Africans are weak due to slavery or colonialism too? I wouldn't. The things that happened were reality, old institutions and ways of life had to be eliminated in order for Arab/Muslim expansion to succeed. Does that or does that not make them culpable for some of the destruction done in Africa?
Two, you completely misunderstood when I said "African way". Simply put, all the things were carried out in an African way as in developed and practiced IN the continent of Africa. No that doesn't mean its all one uniform style, but in all instances these customs, codes of conduct, what have you, were African whether from the East, West, Central, North, or South. Say for instance, tribes of the Niger delta united and created Nigeria without Europeans, then on the backs of their tribal gods went all the way to Arabia and had them submit to African customs and religions. Whether or not people prosper under these hypothetical conquerors is one thing, but in all instances those Arabs would of had to give up aspects of their culture the conqueror don't like or be annihilated. This is true for any people, call a spade a spade breh Islam did this just like Europeans did this, hell just like African tribes did to one another...only difference between those Africans and Euros/Arabs is those Africans were not influenced by outside forces.
Blame is a strong word, I would say I don't absolve or let Islam off the hook like we often do. Plus lets just stop right there, Islam came to Africa because Bilal suggested to Muhammad to send some of the early Muslims to Ethiopia to receive asylum. Thanks to the Christian Negus(Emperor) Armah of Axum they weren't given up to the pre-Islamic Arabs and the religion made its way down the African East Coast from there. Muhammad even went so far as to advise Muslims not to make war with Christian Ethiopia for giving the Muslim pilgrims refuge in Al Nagash(a town in northern Ethiopia) but of course the insatiable thirst for conquest is too much and in the end Islam isolated Ethiopia and helped to make it the underdeveloped nation it is today much like it did to much of Africa, Muslims all but wiped out the old Nubian Christian culture and devastated the Egyptian Copt community. Furthermore, when Christian nations like Ethiopia barred trading slaves that were non-pagan the slave trade in East Africa became 100% Muslim dominated, but let me stop I don't want to ruin your benevolent Muslim narrative.
Also, I take great issue with you suggesting that somehow Africa had no golden age prior to the Moors or the Islamic age which is unequivocally false. As if a HUGE portion of the knowledge Arabs boasted didn't come from African works. It's funny, you accused me of making Africans look weak for acknowledging how savagely and relentlessly they were attacked and yet you believe Islam somehow was the only thing to give these Africans a golden age. What's even more funny is even the moments in which you can credit the Islamic age, you still have jihadists that were bent on destroying those things. Timbuktu was destroyed not only by the Portuguese by making the desert routes irrelevant, but by the non-stop invasions of non-African peoples. Songhai fell to Morrocans with guns. The destruction of Africa was a collaborated effort whether you care to admit it or not. That doesn't mean we can't also acknowledge the good things that came from the Islamic ages, just call a spade a spade.
As for the Ghana Empire:
http://www.mrdowling.com/609-testr.htm
http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/the-ghana-empire <----Great timeline which also discusses how the Islamic invasion was pivitol in the decline of the Ghana Empire.
Lastly, that's not attributable to my argument. First off, Africa was never universally united to begin with so you can't blame Islam for that. But Islam added something new to be divided by, Islam went through great lengths to have the riches of Africa much like Europe did. This doesn't mean there weren't times of mutual cooperation because the Islamic empire couldn't of succeeded had that not been so. However Muslims took slaves at a high rate which helped to depopulate and ways of life and community were altered by Islam. Many empires suffered and ultimately yes whether you want to admit it or not again, Islam IS culpable in these things.
Who said that?
I don't think it could.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Now what's that supposed to mean?
Im Kemet Rocky & I like penis
googling gay porn :ahh:
how the fukk can i hate "god" if it aint even real? gtfoh dumbass
lol, I hope you realize that you really haven't disputed anything I typed in all these post.
Anyway, I really don't know what to tell you. There are educational institutions and history books n shyt to help you out if you don't know the reasons why Africa can't advance in modern times.... if you can't realize who actually divided up Africa during colonization that lead to the problems today.... and who was in place before the Arabs got there. I can't help you if you don't get why some of the African groups that pro black people and Afrocentrist hype up so much are - African Islamic kingdoms.. I'm really not sure if I can get you to understand basic logic.
I'm really not sure why it can't get through your head. What is the mental block that you have breah??? You don't understand that if invaders came to Christian, Jewish, Mederteriannian controlled Kingdoms and tribes............. THAT Islam isn't the one that changed the way of life from Traditional African to something different. Lol, you don't get how Weak minded it is to hate a concept or religion soo much that you put blame on it that is unwarranted. There are bad things that Islamic people have done.. but you can't put all that shyt on them that happened before Islam existed.
You actually didn't make a point here. You just backed off some of your previous points and then went in a circle..... Then ended with 'everyone is evil'. Ok Thanks.
Nobody let's Islam off the hook. ... some people put Islam ON the hook for literally everything in history including Snow Storms that might happen in the year 2085...... AT MOST people correct ignorant and factually incorrect attacks on Islam that really are either based on hate of the religion... or listening to too many ignorant people.
You entire point is that Christian Kingdoms should have been left alone... and for that sir you lost this and should retire. I knew that was your point pages ago... but was hoping you wouldn't go there. This shyt is disgusting. At least you could have said it would have been better if none of these religions entered. You're on here hyping up the first cases of c00nery and mental brainwashing... but dissing the black groups that formed kingdoms that advanced the entire planet.
I never said African had no golden age prior to the Moors. I'm saying some of the main Islamic groups that accomplished great things were the same AFrican groups that already accomplished shyt... .saying these groups were already advanced... saying these groups traded cultures and ideas freely... and saying that they aren't the backward, bumbelling fools that Yall are in here trying to paint them out to be. Yall act like some of the greatest African kingdoms were completely defenseless against the Arabs... and historians do not agree.. and I do not agree.
The Islamic Hate is sooooo strong even that even shyt that the Spainsh, Portugese, English and French are clearly responsible for--- Yup, It's the Muslims fault.
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First off, I can tell none of you actually read books.... but let just pretend that you do... you would know that We would know Almost nothing of the Great Ghanian empire if it were not for............ The boogyman, lol aka Islam. The nikkas that converted wrote about the shyt and that is what we base nearly ALL of our info and historical research on.
2) the Soninke Africans made it into a real place... and they didn't do it with candy. They did it by killing women children and men.. and basically going fukking hamm on local AFricans.
3) the King or ancient Ghana' was ruler and controlled everything... one reason Islam slid in the culture of ghana, sengal area, niger... is because the tenents and rules weren't so much different that the shyt the Ghana leaders were kicking. Plus trade. For example... I don't have debt.. the way I pray, the way I do business, the way i live right now in 2014.. is Islamic... and not much different than.... ancient Ghana... Main crimes were debt n shyt.... fill in the blanks side by side and u will see that they valued all the same shyt Any Way, retard do some research.
4)Islam did change some things.. but not the rules just the way to go about it.... for example.. instead of listening to a snake or drinking poison to see if someone is innocent.. There were set ups with judges and witnesses... I guess you feel that's so horrible.
5) It became great because of its wealth at first. so much gold that the animals had gold chains n shyt. BUT then became a Super nation and the shyt we are proud of because of it's trade with the arabs. That trade had them on super Army, Super Trade, Super influence mode... at levels they had not reached yet. They were better off than the Arabs.
6) Mali and( other groups before them )is what weakened them. but that's how the world works.. you have internal conflicts then the neighbors ALL take shots at you. The African groups that attacked them attacked for trade, money, territory, and power reasons---- they just so happened to be Islamic blacks.
7) they were destroyed but went into become part of other groups that we hype up...... that so happen to be.............. Muslim africans that united to do great things.
So you say :Africa was never universally united to begin with so you can't blame Islam for that. But Islam added something new to be divided by.... ummm how that does that make sense. IF they were not united.. then how did Islam add something new to divide by?. What did Islam divide if there was no unity?? Also, Islam is a religion not a person or thing... so it didn't go through "great lengths" to do anything. You really need to read about politics and conflicts in world history. Plus you don't know why some areas had low populations and why some areas had higher populations pre and post Islam in Africa... it didn't have to deal with slavery or trade. It dealt with rivers and resources.