Can any Christian / Jew explain this?

[JoelB]

The term יהודי Y'hûdi (the masculine inflexion of the adjective associated with the proper noun יהודה Y'hûdah) is a demonym derived from the name of our former kingdom and not from the tribe of the same name: as such, it is equally applicable to ALL our constituent sh'vaṭîm ('tribes'), not only shévêṭ Y'hûdah and shévêṭ Bin'yamîn.


That is a common misconception. I am not from Y'hûdah or Bin'yamîn (and neither is Sccit, for that matter).


From the strictly grammatical point of view, Yîshma'él SHOULD have been described as אדם פרא as opposed to פרא אדם, because the noun אדם ought to have PRECEDED the adjective פרא (unless, in essence, Yîshma'él is truly a savage (פרא functioning as the noun) with some human qualities (אדם functioning as the adjective).

According to our Tōrâh, therefore, Yîshma'él cannot help but act like the animal he was prophesied to be.

I agree with the 1st point however after the split, Judah, Benjamin and the majority of Levi were part of the kingdom Judah...the northern tribes identified as Israel.

 

[Koichos]

thanks for the clarfication

what tribe do you and @Sccit represent?

Lévî.

if he is prophesied to alike an animal...then perhaps its unavoidable...but it is also said that the lion will eat straw when messiah has arrived

maybe fate can be...misdirected?

Surah Ali 'Imran - 54 - Quran.com

And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned—and Allah is the best of planners.

quran.com

Indeed. It is part of our masōrah (tradition) that each one of them is at heart a פרא.

 

[MMS]

Lévî.


Indeed. It is part of our masōrah (tradition) that each one of them is at heart a פרא.

dont be united with Simeon remember that undead dogbeast. When and if you sing Adir Hu remember what I said

Possibly The Most Damning Christian Scripture That Cast Judgement Upon Islam

for how much folk act like the book of Enoch is groundbreaking, I noticed no one checked this post :mjlit: i put a new spin on "Aarons Golden Calf" that i believe is closer to the truth than yall realize What's funny to me about the Abrahamic faiths is that the concept of allegory only makes...

www.thecoli.com

 

[DoubleClutch]

thanks for the clarfication

what tribe do you and @Sccit represent?

if he is prophesied to alike an animal...then perhaps its unavoidable...but it is also said that the lion will eat straw when messiah has arrived

maybe fate can be...misdirected?

Surah Ali 'Imran - 54 - Quran.com

And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned—and Allah is the best of planners.

quran.com

It’s funny cause even Jews will recognize the messiah and their heart will be hardened no more (or something like that look it up) similar idea to what we saw with PHARAOH

Only Muslim believe in 100% fate & predestination as it apples to themselves

However true Muslims will fight the messiah according to their own scriptures

Sahih al-Bukhari 6205 - Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab) - كتاب الأدب - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Why would Allah hate the “Malik Al-Amlak”

 

[MMS]

It’s funny cause even Jews will recognize the messiah and their heart will be hardened no more (or something like that look it up) similar idea to what we saw with PHARAOH

Only Muslim believe in 100% fate & predestination as it apples to themselves

However true Muslims will fight the messiah according to their own scriptures

Sahih al-Bukhari 6205 - Good Manners and Form (Al-Adab) - كتاب الأدب - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Why would Allah hate the “Malik Al-Amlak”

the noble king..the great Cyrus

Isaiah 44:28

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

Cyrus the Great - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the persian fire is something they dont want to address

 

[Sccit]

thanks for the clarfication

what tribe do you and @Sccit represent?

if he is prophesied to alike an animal...then perhaps its unavoidable...but it is also said that the lion will eat straw when messiah has arrived

maybe fate can be...misdirected?

Surah Ali 'Imran - 54 - Quran.com

And the disbelievers made a plan ˹against Jesus˺, but Allah also planned—and Allah is the best of planners.

quran.com

I AM FROM THE TRIBE OF LEVI

 

[Sccit]

Lévî.


Indeed. It is part of our masōrah (tradition) that each one of them is at heart a פרא.

YOU ARE ALSO A LEVI?!

 

[DoubleClutch]

the noble king..the great Cyrus

Isaiah 44:28

Cyrus the Great - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the persian fire is something they dont want to address

On the day of the resurrection?

The most awful name in Allah's sight on the Day of Resurrection

Didnt you say there’s some “truth” in the Quran

 

[MMS]

On the day of the resurrection?

The most awful name in Allah's sight on the Day of Resurrection

Didnt you say there’s some “truth” in the Quran

depends on how much you trust Gabriel who did the revealing

why would God allow so many texts if the 5 books of Moses were supposedly in finality? unless God doesnt view the texts the way we view the texts

if I were a betting man...God sees all the texts as forms of seed

remember: Everything God made he called Good...and there were grasses, trees, ferns, whales, fish, beasts, birds and creeping things

extrapolating it how these folks do... you can reinterpret the books into trees and books do produce fruit...of a different variety but fruit nonetheless

RE: resurrection...you might be getting resurrected every day and are unawares to it because of your unbelief

 

[DoubleClutch]

depends on how much you trust Gabriel who did the revealing

why would God allow so many texts if the 5 books of Moses were supposedly in finality? unless God doesnt view the texts the way we view the texts

if I were a betting man...God sees all the texts as forms of seed

remember: Everything God made he called Good...and there were grasses, trees, ferns, whales, fish, beasts, birds and creeping things

extrapolating it how these folks do... you can reinterpret the books into trees and books do produce fruit...of a different variety but fruit nonetheless

RE: resurrection...you might be getting resurrected every day and are unawares to it because of your unbelief

Did the serpent speak some truth in the garden?

Plus who said the Quran is from God? Not me

Egyptian religion has some true concepts also

Didnt they also believe in the resurrection?but also thought you could bring material riches with you to the afterlife

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Matthew 19:24

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

[MMS]

Did the serpent speak some truth in the garden?

Plus who said the Quran is from God? Not me

Egyptian religion has some true concepts also

Didnt they also believe in the resurrection?but also thought you could bring material riches with you to the afterlife

The Rich Man and Lazarus​

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Matthew 19:24

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

dwell on that line

and consider what you've learned from hearing about Egypt...cool his tongue...because I am in agony in this fire

James 3:4-6

4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

remember how I said...the serpent is the tongue?

consider Adam and Eve...they would be "like Gods" (like Elohim/Kelohim) knowing Good and evil. An allegory to the creations of their mouths which were not completely good.

Genesis 49:17 Hebrew Text Analysis

and also

Genesis 49:8 Hebrew Text Analysis

 

[DoubleClutch]

dwell on that line

and consider what you've learned from hearing about Egypt...cool his tongue...because I am in agony in this fire

James 3:4-6



remember how I said...the serpent is the tongue?

consider Adam and Eve...they would be "like Gods" (like Elohim/Kelohim) knowing Good and evil. An allegory to the creations of their mouths which were not completely good.

Genesis 49:17 Hebrew Text Analysis

and also

Genesis 49:8 Hebrew Text Analysis

Yea but you ain’t answering why the Egyptians religion were so materialistic and wanted gold and riches to take with them in the afterlife when Jesus preached the opposite

“Sell all your possessions.”

“The meek shall inherit the earth”

Imagine yelling that to pharaoh

In the same vein imagine Jesus accepting the Devils offer for riches and kingdoms of the earth

Riches seem to be a curse in the Bible but in Egyptian religion it’s a rite of passage

 

[MMS]

Yea but you ain’t answering why the Egyptians religion were so materialistic and wanted gold and riches to take with them in the afterlife when Jesus preached the opposite

“Sell all your possessions.”

“The meek shall inherit the earth”

Imagine yelling that to pharaoh

In the same vein imagine Jesus accepting the Devils offer for riches and kingdoms of the earth

Riches seem to be a curse in the Bible but in Egyptian religion it’s a rite of passage

riches are a curse

but if used rightly can be a blessing (given to those who really need it)

you gotta remember the WHOLE narrative of egypt. Egypt is like the cradle of civilization. They went from a tool age civilization all the way into the iron age before being carried off

the whole narrative of the hyksos starts and ends with Pharaoh renegging on his deal with Jacob/Joseph and allowing them to dwell in the land of Goshen (OLD Lower Egypt)

basically these "material" people started getting rich and rich off of egyptians and the powers in egypt wanted that power and tried to subjugate them. When they should have remembered their covenants. The rest is history

Once pharaoh forgot his sacred charge as divine priest and intercessor before God he lost his mandate. In fact all the squabbles for the throne are proof that God has cursed it to anyone wild enough to approach it. This is why when you see the symbolism in euro kings they use the scepter/ball motif talking about the rod of david and the universe formed from the scriptures. They are intercessors on your behalf whether you realize it or not. Divine right of kings is real despite the american narrative. It doesnt means the king is entitled to excess wealth

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch @JoelB this is a lengthy read but I think you'll appreciate it RE: Oral transmission of the scriptures (like why is Oral Torah important)

𝐎𝐫𝐚𝐥 𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐬𝐦𝐢𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐨𝐧
The Gospels themselves are very short. It would be quite obvious that not everything Jesus said and did was recorded in them, even if the Scriptures did not explicitly say so (John 20:30). To assume that everything important in the early Church would have been memorialized in a written document is illogical, anachronistic, and unhistorical. Furthermore, imposing our cultural norms and expectations—which demand scientific proof and historical documentation in writing—on people living in an entirely different time, place, and culture is unfair, unrealistic, and ethnocentric.

Written documents could not possibly have contained all the important teachings and practices of the early Church, for a variety of reasons. One of the earliest Christian writers, St. Irenaeus, who was bishop of Lyons around the year AD 178, comments on the fact that the gospel had already been spread to many nations, including some who had no written language. “Many nations of those barbarians who believe in Christ do assent, having salvation written in their hearts by the Spirit, without paper or ink, and, carefully preserving the ancient tradition.” As St. Irenaeus continues, he lists the common beliefs the “barbarian” Christians had also accepted: the existence of one God; Jesus Christ being the Son of God, born of a virgin, crucified under Pontius Pilate; the Second Coming; and so forth. These Christians, without any education or written language, were deeply devoted to preserving apostolic Tradition, Irenaeus explained. He affirmed that these uneducated Christians had accepted apostolic Tradition and rejected any deviation from it, even if the false teachings were presented in their own language.
...
As we have seen, apostolic teaching was oral in character, considered more reliable than written documents because the apostles were eyewitnesses of the teachings, miracles, and Resurrection of the Lord. Writings were considered less reliable, since one could not be confident that the contents of a book had not been altered by a previous copyist, either by mistake or intentionally.

For this reason, it would have been absolutely impossible for the early Church to have functioned by sola scriptura. Not only does all historical
evidence contradict that notion, but it would have been impossible since even the Jews did not agree on what books were considered “Scripture” at the time the Church began and for a long time afterward. As hard as this is for us to imagine, the Scriptures were not the basis of the Jewish faith nor even the most important aspect of it. The Jewish Scriptures were important because they contained the Law, which shaped their way of life. But the Jews agreed only on the Torah, which consists of just the first five books of the Bible. Many other Jewish books were read, and many Jews considered the writings of the Prophets and Psalms to be Scripture, but no consensus
existed.

What mattered for first-century Jews was their lifestyle. That was the basis of whether one was considered righteous or not. That was what made you a member of the Jewish community or not. It was in this historical and cultural context that the Church was born: the way you lived your life determined who you were, not which books you recognized as Scripture. This is a far cry from the situation imagined by the Reformers who championed the notion of “the Scriptures alone.” The early Church had no Scripture of its own, and the Jews had no defined canon of Scripture; therefore, sola scriptura as the foundation for what Christians believed was absolutely impossible.

Other reasons can be cited for early Christian reliance on oral apostolic Tradition. From a practical standpoint, as noted earlier, most people did not own a single book, even if they could read. Apostolic writings did not even exist at first, and after they were composed, they were not immediately considered Scripture. People expected instruction of all types to be oral, and extensive memorization of long lessons was the norm. One other factor must be considered that seems unimaginable in the information age: oral apostolic teaching was unwritten because Christian doctrines were secret. Only baptized members of the Church were allowed to witness the most holy, sublime Mysteries or to hear profound statements of faith such as the Creed. This secrecy continued after Christianity was legalized in 313 and even after it became the official religion of the empire in 380.
- Thinking Orthodox: Understanding and Acquiring the Orthodox Christian Mind
Book by Eugenia Scarvelis Constantinou

 

[JoelB]

@DoubleClutch @JoelB this is a lengthy read but I think you'll appreciate it RE: Oral transmission of the scriptures (like why is Oral Torah important)

cool read.

I personally dont rock with the Talmud. I see no text in the Tanakh that alludes to a separate complimentary oral torah being required to properly understand the written law given to Moses .

Deuteronomy 30:10
10 if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.​

We know Christ himself quoted from the book of Daniel at the temple... and the Septuagint was around at that time. So if the LXX was good enough for the greek speaking Jews, its good enough for me.

The talmud got suspect teaching..The mishna telling rabbi's to suck the baby penis, a trend that caused a herpes outbreak in NY?

What is oral suction circumcision and where does it come from?

How the interpretation of the ancient Hebrew words 'metzitzah b'peh' has changed can be a matter of life and death for baby boys.

www.haaretz.com

but the Jewish cats are going to tell me im a goy and dont understand their high sciences