Can African Americans exist "insulated" from white America?

[Poitier]

Question:
Do you feel it's possible for African Americans to exist in the United States within the following context?


Context:
1. %100 Finance(staff, ads, & living/travel expenses) of African American politics(city, county, state, & federal reps)
2. Employment of African Americans facilitated 85%-100% by African Americans
3. Administration, legal position/drafting, enactment, repeal, & enforcement(city, county, & state) by 60%-100% African Americans per jurisdiction
4. (federal representation) legal position & drafting 100% by African Americans
5. Foreign trade relations of A.A. companies conducted and facilitated %100 by African Americans
6. Food needed by African Americans grown 100% by AA / African(diasporan) nations
7. Civil infrastructure needed by African Americans constructed 100% by AA / African(diasporan) nations
8. Entertainment/cultural material consumed created 100% by AA / African(diasporan) nations
9. Educational (funding, world view, theory, content, curriculum, books, & instruction) facilitated 100% by A.A.
10. Transportation & telecommunications infrastructure facilitated 100% by A.A./ African(diasporan) nations
11. Live only in states where African Americans are the governor

​

1. I don't think it is realistic or feasible to expect African AMERICAN politicians working within an AMERICAN government to turn down non Black donors. I also don't think AAs have the capital to fund all AA politicians.
2. I don't think AAs have the capital to start enough businesses with the ability to bankroll livable wages for the majority of the AA community.
3. Need to expound.
4. Need to expound.
5. I don't get what this means.
6. Not familiar with the way
7. Where are we getting the materials needed for construction?
8. I don't believe you can stop non Blacks from consuming Black media.
9. Would have to be through private schooling given public have government crafted curriculum which then becomes another issue of capital/funding.
10. Where are we getting the materials needed for construction?
11. I mean....sure, if such a state every exists.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

I think this goes baack to making the south more appealing. I was born in NYC. own a house here got a lot of good contacts here. My dad's clan is from NC and my mom's is from the islands.(Barbados) I lived in the south(Broward county) And I didn't like it. Various reasons. But I say that to say, what incentive does a northern in my position have to come back? I can see if I was a renter ect. But if we are going to return, it needs to be based on more than inability to survive in the north. We need to want to come back to build. What makes us want to come back, in your opinion? (No jokes either, convince me)

It's not the answer your looking for but ....that's for you to decide. Only you know your situation and needs.
What I'm doing is laying out the dynamics of the big picture and how it is changing over time...

Generic example:
I'm laying out the points on the field A-F and the distances between them...

...(where you should go / what path to take) in relation to some given destination is determined by where you start from.


Now where you should or shouldn't(if at all) go in the south is up to you. Only you know things about your situation as pertains to things like...

• [money, wife, children, career, values, commitments, ect, ect]

those values...

• [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]

Determine where your starting point resides,

• Point A = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]
• Point B = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]
• Point * = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]

...hence what path is most suitable for you.

Hey, I can only tell another man what the terrain look like not how to move through it ....do you bruh bruh

BTW, just in case you think I'm being facetious or dodging the question. I've never been into convincing / persuading people to do anything. I simply provide data & interpretations of that data. It's up to that individual person to convince / persuade themselves given the data & interpretations on display, in relation to their own lives....

​

Answer:
Pass... I don't do academic debate. Now discussions to ascertain & clarify each others position sure




Why:
At a point it becomes...
Person 1: You have to see that ...2+2 = 4
Person 2: No you're not understanding me ...6-2 = 4


While a position can be "rationally incorrect" there becomes a point at which noone is making an illogical position. Their making a point that suits their values, politics, and principles which the other party isn't obligated to hold.


So the point then becomes how do you handle/process difference ...and that component is utterly lacking in "academic debate". Given that those things(values, politics, and principles) are essentially the basis/manifestation of a persons perspective which is deemed "subjective" in platonic thought on which "academia" is based. It's just "mafukkas tryna win" at arguing.

Now if you want to sit down and have a discussion I suggest you look to your African heritage(assumption)...

...for method/practices to use as "cultural ingredients" in cooking up your own custom process.

Pass, I don't do "academic debate" the point here is to...
1. assert a political position(Provide clear view of the subjects full dynamics) in regard to the topic ....and stand on it.
2. make a clear example of what "stand on it" looks like so others can pick up from there when engaging in conversation concerning the topic.
I.E. I'm not interested in winning any debate I'm interested in leaving a clear example on deck for the people. I feel my job maybe done here ..........

​

Now in regard to you being "proven wrong" ...that's not really my angle when speaking to people.




by RandomAfricanAm: 3:10am On Dec 14, 2013

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Note: We can agree to disagree on the DNA(or anything for that matter) I don't want to **win** I want resolution. I don't do "academic debates" I have conversations with people.

by RandomAfricanAm: 4:50am On Dec 10, 2013

Fair enough, I'll drop off. My points have been largely addressed anyway.
Side note: I don't do debates they reek of people(I'm not saying you) constantly trying to "win". I just want to understand a persons position and make sure my position is clearly understood. Afterwards come to some (dis)agreement then move on to the next step.

I despise "academic debate" ...it's one of those residual European cultural nuggets that don't suit me at all

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Basically my position is to produce alternatives to whatever is being pushed(that's not inline with my world view) not to hunt down people I disagree with to prove them wrong. This thread being a great example. What do I look like telling someone in (insert African country here) that you are wrong, African Americans do come to Africa. They are just going to argue back well I never see any.

Instead of arguing down some specific persons experiences, I bypassed that dead end argument and instead argued generally against using a particular experience to say African Americans don't go to Africa ...only Europeans come here. How did I do that? By simply producing information showing African Americans in Africa.

Now does that make the person who never sees African Americans wrong ...a lair? Nope
​

Thing is that wasn't the point of contention anyway. The point of contention was a subset of Africans on nairaland attempting to build a "universal case" off of their individual experiences.

I'll bite...

I don't think it's a case of being cliquish ...more so than a case of given the hundreds/thousands of people with information on African history on the Continent & Diaspora why should this one person receive our attention?
Now you do put forth a reasonable case for why his material should be reviewed but I feel the best case for me personally is to produce viable valid information / interpretations of historical material. I'm very clear on the...

"atheist dilemma" - I.E. you can't tell a person to stop doing something they value without providing a viable alternative.

My role is to produce viable alternatives not to chase down every wack job who says "black people aren't from Africa they from (America, Europe, the moon)" etc.
That said I don't disparage people playing defense(hell I might even poke my head in). There is a place for that, but i'm on the offensive squad.

I.E. For the most part I don't go around trying to prove people wrong I just get clarity on peoples position and produce info.

The closest I could think of me "debating" someone would be....
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/22350234/
and
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/22596774/

...and even then it's basically just me stating and clarifying my position while trying to understand theirs.​

Why post all this above bruh

You asked me to "convince" you to move south.

....
......
We need to want to come back to build. What makes us want to come back, in your opinion? (No jokes either, convince me)

What I'm saying above is that i'm not in the convincing /persuading business. That's something an individual does with/to them self when they sit down at a table and look over the data at their disposal in relation to their own lives. What I provide is extra data & interpretations, everything else is on the individual in regard to what they "want" to do. I can't make a person "want" to do something and I'm on record as holding this position since at least 2013.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

@The Hierophant I want to be productive here also
So lets say an AA is comfortable where they are but also sees the value/logic in residing in the south.
At that point what I suggest be done is to connect with a planner, career/life coach, etc. (I hate the term life coach btw )

Then say...

1. these are the dynamics of my life... My life = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]
2. I want a transition plan to maintain those dynamics while living in the south.
3. At that point locations, professional groups, housing, etc etc. would be drummed up, agreed upon, and an action plan / timeline created.
4. Over the coarse of the timeline the two would check in with each other for reminders/status reports to make sure the transition is going smoothly.

Conclusion:
If a person is fine where they are but sees the logic in moving down south, the point is to create an action plan(whether they use it or not) not convince them to leave their comfort zone.
I suggest the question be, "how do I maintain my current comfort zone in this new social / geographical context?"
(Which is more so an issue of planning than "convincing" or persuading ...either the transition plan meets your needs or they don't.)



Edit:
@Poitier I haven't forgot about ya bruh I just have/had a couple other conversations going concurrently. (and honestly sometimes I don't feel like "problem solving", or looking up my position from like 2 years ago, etc) Currently I'm trying to answer the question "do I subscribe to capitalism?"(I don't "subscribe" to capitalism nor socialism) now as you can prob imagine I have to "go in" quite a bit to explain such a stance.

...but yeah, reply incoming.

 

[Neuromancer]

It's not the answer your looking for but ....that's for you to decide. Only you know your situation and needs.
What I'm doing is laying out the dynamics of the big picture and how it is changing over time...

Generic example:
I'm laying out the points on the field A-F and the distances between them...

...(where you should go / what path to take) in relation to some given destination is determined by where you start from.


Now where you should or shouldn't(if at all) go in the south is up to you. Only you know things about your situation as pertains to things like...

• [money, wife, children, career, values, commitments, ect, ect]

those values...

• [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]

Determine where your starting point resides,

• Point A = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]
• Point B = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]
• Point * = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]

...hence what path is most suitable for you.



BTW, just in case you think I'm being facetious or dodging the question. I've never been into convincing / persuading people to do anything. I simply provide data & interpretations of that data. It's up to that individual person to convince / persuade themselves given the data & interpretations on display, in relation to their own lives....














Why post all this above bruh

You asked me to "convince" you to move south.



What I'm saying above is that i'm not in the convincing /persuading business. That's something an individual does with/to them self when they sit down at a table and look over the data at their disposal in relation to their own lives. What I provide is extra data & interpretations, everything else is on the individual in regard to what they "want" to do. I can't make a person "want" to do something and I'm on record as holding this position since at least 2013.

Nvm breh.

 

[im_sleep]

I don't think the great migration was a mistake per say

My take on the great migration goes like this.

Analogy:
You have a base that's over run by the enemy

The south:

In a ploy to regain the base you split your forces in half

• keeping half on base to fight the enemy
• Second half embarks on a "great migration" to go behind enemy lines to disrupt their occupation efforts and put them on defense.

Behind enemy lines that second half disrupts the enemy on there own turf putting them in a defensive posture.

Back at base
The south:

We down here in the south pushed the enemy out of the areas where we lived and gained control of the basic wheels of governance. Where as before we would live in an area but the enemy would dictate where we could live, while making and enforcing all the laws(that is what segregation is by the why).


Conclusion:
The problem then became that all those people who left for the "war effort" never came back home once we kicked the enemy out. To be clear nothing was wrong with leaving per say, the problem is they never came back home after we acquired the ability to govern over ourselves. As a result you have these small scattered pockets of people throughout the north and west who live under the enemies governance and fill nothing was won. Anytime I here pessimistic people who say "nothing has changed" I'd put money on 90% of them not being from the south.


So now we got a bunch of scattered people being picked off behind enemy lines like Rambo...

causing them to think the fire fight is still on...

When honestly we need more builders than fighters back here in the south.​

Love this analogy.

What do you think about the current “reverse migration”?

If I had a dollar for everybody I know that either has talked about or actually moved down south I’d be rich.

How do you think those who make that move will factor into building up the home base?

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

Nvm breh.

I followed that response with a slightly more ..."productive" answer as well.

http://www.thecoli.com/posts/27082819/

 

[Losttribe]

The whole move down south talk is just silly.

 

[AceAge]

Unfortunately it will never happen because the white supremacist will sabotage it every chance they get. In 1898 black people did exactly what the OP said. They even elected a black mayor for the city and the whites burned the city to the ground and literally ran the mayor and the black people out of town and took over the city. It was the first and only time that has happened in US history.

It's impossible for black people to be prosperous and live among these devils.

You gotta be willing to die, because the their side is willing to kill you. There's no compromise.

 

[Neuromancer]

@The Hierophant I want to be productive here also
So lets say an AA is comfortable where they are but also sees the value/logic in residing in the south.
At that point what I suggest be done is to connect with a planner, career/life coach, etc. (I hate the term life coach btw )

Then say...

1. these are the dynamics of my life... My life = [a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h]
2. I want a transition plan to maintain those dynamics while living in the south.
3. At that point locations, professional groups, housing, etc etc. would be drummed up, agreed upon, and an action plan / timeline created.
4. Over the coarse of the timeline the two would check in with each other for reminders/status reports to make sure the transition is going smoothly.

Conclusion:
If a person is fine where they are but sees the logic in moving down south, the point is to create an action plan(whether they use it or not) not convince them to leave their comfort zone.
I suggest the question be, "how do I maintain my current comfort zone in this new social / geographical context?"
(Which is more so an issue of planning than "convincing" or persuading ...either the transition plan meets your needs or they don't.)



.

Great suggestion. Some of the things I have up here cannot be replaced (Biz contacts) Also I hate driving so mass transit is a must. Walking or biking is also an option. But this is a great idea.

 

[Easy-E]

"I don't need government"

*has Obamacare*

*owes Sallie Mae*

*has a mortgage*

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

"I don't need government"

*has Obamacare*

*owes Sallie Mae*

*has a mortgage*

What does any of that have to do with this thread
I need to get back to this thread matter a fact

 

[Easy-E]

What does any of that have to do with this thread
I need to get back to this thread matter a fact

The idea the path to black empowerment to devoid of any interaction with white people aka the Government

disclaimer: I'm am not suggesting will pal around with white people, nor do I trust the gov't

I just believe we need to grow up and understand people do business with people they don't trust all the time

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

The idea the path to black empowerment to devoid of any interaction with white people aka the Government

disclaimer: I'm am not suggesting will pal around with white people, nor do I trust the gov't

I just believe we need to grow up and understand people do business with people they don't trust all the time

This goes back to what I said earlier about people making their own definitions for terms then arguing points noone(at least the OP never said)

BTW, @Poitier The reason for asking those questions is to be sure we are on the same page. Often times on coli when someone brings up a topic people start answering questions based on previous conversations. Conversations that have to do with an exchange they had with another person rather than the conversation the OP is trying to have. I'm asking the questions to make sure you understand what my position is ....and to be sure I know what your position is.

Generic Example:
Someone brings up a thread on the significance of starting and supporting a black owned business.
The thread then fills up with people saying...

• "everybody can't be an entrepreneur"
• "I'm not leaving my job to start a business"
• etc etc etc

...basically things that have little to do with the thread topic and everything to do with previous conversations they've engaged in on thecoli. So now the OP thread has been derailed by people bringing up issues the OP wasn't even talking about.



The above example is why I was explicit in providing a context instead of simply stating something generic like "insulated" and leaving it there. Without that context people are free to fill the term "insulated" with whatever definition they choose then argue(for or against) a definition that has nothing to do with what I'm actually saying.

Hopefully the exchange below will shed a lil light as concerns exchanges with the federal gov and broader U.S. economic market.

This quote from earlier in the thread maybe of use also in case it was missed by anyone...

No...as long as we remain in America we need the American dollar. We need sanctions to build on American land...We need permission to import export product with foriegn countires...we need funding for schools and teaching.....black people in America dont want to separate from whitey..the sane ones at least...we just want our peace of the pie..and we want an even piece at that....our problem is that whites just dont want to see us rise...and every time we try the fukk it up....just to throw thier own hatred in our faces.....they say this isnt our land...I disagree...its just as much as outs as anyone elses...in fact we have more stake then most....many will disagree...but many who will are not logical thinkers amd dont see the big picture...

1. When did I say anything about not using the U.S. (fiat) bank note or not also buying / selling within the wider U.S. market
2. We need to abide by the city, county, state, federal Property, Real Estate, and zoning Laws like anyone else ...you thinking of building on federal reserve land or something

3. We need to abide by the same

guidelines as anyone else
Basic Importing and Exporting | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

"As an importer you must assure that your merchandise complies with other agencies requirements (e.g., FDA, EPA, DOT, CPSC, FTC, Agriculture, etc.) and obtained licenses or permits, if required, from them."

Importing - Licenses/Permits

4. Correct, that's called a tax base
5. Where exactly in my OP did I use the word "separate"? What definition of "separate" are you using anyway?

We need common terms here.
Working definitions (subject to cleaning up)
Segregated - to live under the legal jurisdiction of an alien cultural group who have designated where you live and how you are uniquely treated by law.
Separated - to live under the legal jurisdiction of a shared cultural group who have designated how you are equally treated by law.

...we just want our peace of the pie..and we want an even piece at that....our problem is that whites just dont want to see us rise...and every time we try the fukk it up....just to throw thier own hatred in our faces.....they say this isnt our land...I disagree...its just as much as outs as anyone elses...in fact we have more stake then most....many will disagree...but many who will are not logical thinkers amd dont see the big picture...

1. How is it that "our piece of the pie" is not secured within the context outlined in the OP?

2. How is it that the context outlined in the OP doesn't lessen the capacity for cacs to "fukk it up....just to throw thier own hatred in our faces" and increase our capacity to weather the attack?
3. This tells me a lot about your values, world view, etc. and the range of political positions you are capable of coming to.
I.E. even if we give everyone the same ingredients(knowledge), what ultimately gets cooked(cognition) is dependent on who each person is cooking for.
(The end result of your cognitive process is dependent on your goals, principles, values, world view, etc ...some people simply don't have the same goals as you, has nothing to do with them being illogical.)
4. I'll bite ...and what exactly is this "big picture" you speak of?

Here is a basic outline from a previous thread of my "big picture"(I plan to make a detailed thread soon)...

3. Most importantly my political position is that we need to finish correcting our cumulative historical projection.
End transatlantic slave trade (Done)

End the formal institution of chattel slavery(Done)
-I look at the modern prison complex as it's own demon*

End overarching wide scale political division of African people(Done)
-current tribalism levels doesn't trump the current pan-african / African Union / regional, continental, & diasporic integration consciousness and thrust

End governmental colonialism(Done)

End academic(mental/spiritual) colonialism(initiated)
-Reconstruction of an African worldview(definitions of reality, values, principles, etc)

End economic colonialism(initiated)
Have capacity to fund all political actions
Have the capacity to extract, process, and manufacture all the goods Africa needs with the resources in the ground
Have the capacity to move all goods around the continent and trade internally.
Be independent of all non-African owned NGOs, production, and/or extraction corporations only leaving foreign(sellers, traders, and tourist).
Have a resource depot for surpluses in the Caribbean, Seychelles/Mauritius, and Kerkennah Islands.(Sale surpluses after domestic needs met)
Diaspora wholesale purchase surplus and use global sale of goods from depots as base financial revenue generator to maintain economic independence/sovereignty of global African peoples.

End military deficiency(initiated)
- gain policing, military powers, and the ability to enforce law. Grow capacity to deal with the total array of threats land, sea, air, cyber, biological, etc.







In street terms
Me building in a cac city is hustling backwards
....in terms of governance & economics. My employment opportunities needs to go to "my people", my tax funds need to go to "my people" & my political donations needs to go to making sure "my peoples" political candidates(and their policy maneuvers) are not beholden to "alien" financiers.

This is actually one of the main things that make me weary of these types of conversations. Spending more time differentiating my point from peoples assumptions of my points than actually building on my point in the thread. Then once you clear things with one person another person comes in with the same assumption a page or two after.

 

[NoChillJones]

This goes back to what I said earlier about people making their own definitions for terms then arguing points noone(at least the OP never said)




Hopefully the exchange below will shed a lil light as concerns exchanges with the federal gov and broader U.S. economic market.





This is actually one of the main things that make me weary of these types of conversations. Spending more time differentiating my point from peoples assumptions of my points than actually building on my point in the thread. Then once you clear things with one person another person comes in with the same assumption a page or two after.

Dude your a fukking idiot, stop bumping this thread. America as a country is locked. You will NEVER create a sovereign country inside of it. EVER EVER EVER. Your best bet is create a well populated town of wealthy black Americans that can then create a new Black Wallstreet.

But actually changing the dynamic of how white supremacy works with nothing to back (not even extreme wealth) to back you is fairy tale bullshyt.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

Dude your a fukking idiot, stop bumping this thread. America as a country is locked. You will NEVER create a sovereign country inside of it. EVER EVER EVER. Your best bet is create a well populated town of wealthy black Americans that can then create a new Black Wallstreet.

But actually changing the dynamic of how white supremacy works with nothing to back (not even extreme wealth) to back you is fairy tale bullshyt.

​

• Define "sovereign country". Quote where I said(or even implied) anything about creating a "sovereign country" inside of the U.S.?
• Quote where I said(or even implied) anything about changing the dynamic of how white supremacy works with nothing to back us?
• Hell.... quote more than one time I've posted anything other than in reply to people who've already posted here?(I have bumped this thread exactly once within this year)

(I'll wait)​