Caller On Yvette Carnell Analyzes Dr. Claud Anderson

[Secure Da Bag]

What is the endgame for black society in America?

The endgame may be different for Afram and other diaspora. But equal access, opportunity, and treatment would be the common goals.

 

[Easy-E]

What is the endgame for black society in America?

Reparations 4 slavery

I dont need any white friends

 

[David_TheMan]

Public school education started well before 1979 and was fought for by people like Booker T Washington

Exchanging a currency while having your own is in no way sinilar to being dependent on the American dollar.

Where is all of this “Black” infrastructure because last I checked redlining is real?

Didn't say public education was started in 1979. I said there was no nationalized public education system until 1979 and the formation of the federal Dept. of Education. Before that public education was run by the states. Read what I posted.

Using currency like a dollar or pound or gold or silver and it not being printed or minted by the nation you are in doesn't mean a nation isn't dependent.

What does relining have to do with my point that black infrastructure existed? What does redlining have to do with the need to establish black banks and our own alternative systems?

 

[Easy-E]

Not a number one problem at all, the number one prolbem is the idea that we can get any assistance or help or reparations or expect anything or demand anything of people, whites, and a government that has puposely and systematically worked against our interests to insure we are not economically, socially, and culturally independent of them and able to stand on our own.

Black seperatism can happen and was the norm in the US until the white liberals pushed integrationism on the youth through their useful surrogates like Dubois, who eventually turned away from it later in his life, MLK , who eventually had doubts about it later in his life before he was murdered, and via black communists like Rustin, and others.

Self reliance and isolated pockets aren't masks. They aren't and weren't masks for italians when they came to this country, not for the various low income and low skilled asians who came to this country, not for the irish when they came to this country, not for the jews when they came to this country, and I can go on.

Its only a mask and a dead end for blacks who want white salvation or who think they need white "help" and its because at the end of the day they have internalizaed an attitude and belief of black inferiority.

I don't hold that belief, I know better. I know that whites systematically attack every movement that stresses black seperatism, whether it was attacking Garvey, sending surrogates to attack Booker T Washington, sending surrogates like Rustin to attack Elijah Muhhamad and Malcom X, or surrogates like Thurgood Marshall to attack TRM Howard. But there is a reason whites of both political bents hate the idea of black seperatism and do everything they can to destroy these movements, and it isn't because they are dead ends.

Self reliance and the idea of political action as some sort of fetish-zation of white people and "help" is couched in fantasy and this idea that we live in the same time as Garvey or Black Wall Street while at the same time referring to those times as idyllic.

Black people were crushed by generations of slavery, the Great Depression and while white people were given the New Deal, we got Jim Crow. Self reliance and separatism or black nationalism didn't stop us being regular victims to lynching nor a quarter of all of us living in poverty.

Today, if you find yourself engaging in data and information; black people have no engines to "self-reliance."

The problem is; black American desire American life (3 kids, a home for them, a college education all three, the trappings of entertainment and leisure) but, we do not hold generational wealth for reasons created by this government.

Black people do not--I repeat--own enough land, have enough skin in any type of industry of public works (water, grain, electricity, etc.) and we find ourselves in a unprecedented opposition to the criminal justice system and you think if we just quit our jobs and head west we'll be alright, a-okay. And you believe this because you can cherry pick underdeveloped logic (a lot of those guys changed their mind) and small samples...

 

[David_TheMan]

Self reliance and the idea of political action as some sort of fetish-zation of white people and "help" is couched in fantasy and this idea that we live in the same time as Garvey or Black Wall Street while at the same time referring to those times as idyllic.

Black people were crushed by generations of slavery, the Great Depression and while white people were given the New Deal, we got Jim Crow. Self reliance and separatism or black nationalism didn't stop us being regular victims to lynching nor a quarter of all of us living in poverty.

Today, if you find yourself engaging in data and information; black people have no engines to "self-reliance."

The problem is; black American desire American life (3 kids, a home for them, a college education all three, the trappings of entertainment and leisure) but, we do not hold generational wealth for reasons created by this government.

Black people do not--I repeat--own enough land, have enough skin in any type of industry of public works (water, grain, electricity, etc.) and we find ourselves in a unprecedented opposition to the criminal justice system and you think if we just quit our jobs and head west we'll be alright, a-okay. And you believe this because you can cherry pick underdeveloped logic (a lot of those guys changed their mind) and small samples...

That you actually try to frame self reliance as actually being reliance on white people shows how intellectually empty your stance is.
It makes no sense. Its akin to claiming that freedom comes from slavery. Its a contention so disconnected from reality and reason, that you have to be acting or operating under a mental frame of total delusion and disconnectedness from reality and reason to even utter.

Black seperatism and in cultural/economic independence isn't confined to a time period, so to say it would only work in the time of Garvey or Booker T, makes no sense on a logical level.

To claim blacks have no instruments of self reliance in an age where there is less restrictions for us to inter any market, lower costs of starting business, and ample ability to communicate with different populations again proves your contention disconnected from reality. To claim it was "easier" in pre-segregation or post slavery displays an ignorance in Black American history. Again it speaks to the mindset of you anti-black independence "advocates"

Black Americans have typically always desired an "american" life, the ability to live, work, and enjoy themselves without constant threat from whites in the loss of life or property they worked for. Sadly integrationists took the objective off that fight and placed it on white acceptance, which leaves us with people of your ilk today and its other ideological children.

Black americans don't need to own a large amount of land to build up avenues of economic avenues and structures. This is akin to a person having been advised to save their money and wisely invest, replying that they don't own enough gold mines. Again this shows the lack of rigor and depth to the anti-seperatist argument. What matters isn't land, its goods/services offered and there is nothing to stop blacks from buying land if they so choose in the southeast at reasonable price.

I've known it for quite a while, but its always sad to see you mislead brothers talk like you are for black empowerment, but argue for white handouts and other forms of whitle validation of your own self worth. You are mentally enslaved and don't even know that you are, so everything you argue suffers because it comes from the same rotten fruit that has overtaken you. You are scared and then become angry at the thought of blacks beginning to recognize, that we don't need to concern ourselves with how whites feel about us or beg them to give us anything.

Garvey told us

Do you think that white men who have suffered, bled and died to make America and the world what it is, are going to hand over to a parcel of lazy Negroes the things that they prize most?

Stop flattering yourselves, fellowmen, and let us go to work. Do you hear me? Go to work! Go to work in the morn of a new creation and strike, not because of the noonday sun, but plod on and on, until you have succeeded in climbing the hills of opposition and reached the height of self-progress, and from that pinnacle bestow upon the world a civilization of your own, and hand down to your children and posterity of your own a worthy contribution to the age of human materialism.

We of the Universal Negro Improvement Association are fair and just. We do not expect the white man to rob himself, and to deprive himself, for our racial benefit. How could you reasonably expect that, in an age like this, when men have divided themselves into racial and national groups, when the one group has its own interest to protect as against that of the other?

The laws of self-preservation force every human group to look after itself and protect its own interest; hence so long as the American white man or any other white man, for that matter, realizes his responsibility, he is bound to struggle to protect that which is his and his own, and I feel that the Negro today, who has been led by the unscrupulous of our race, has been grossly misguided, in the direction of expecting too much from the civilization of others. . .

The Negro wants a nation, nothing less, nothing more; and why shouldn’t we be nationally free, nationally independent, nationally unfettered? We want a nationality similar to that of the English, the French, the Italian, the German, to that of the white American, to that of the yellow Japanese; we want nationality and government because we realize that the American nation in a short while will not be large enough to accommodate two competitive rivals, one black and the other white.

There is no doubt about it, that the black man of America today aspires to the White House, to the Cabinet, and to the Senate, and the House. He aspires to be head of State and municipal governments. What are you going to do with him? He cannot be satisfied in the midst of a majority group that seeks to protect its interest at all hazards; then the only alternative is to give the Negro a place of his own. That is why we appeal to the sober white minds of America, and not the selfish ones. The selfish ones will see nothing more than the immediate present, but the deep thinking white man will see the result of another fifty or one hundred years, when these two peoples will be brought together in closer contact of rivalry.

As races we practically represent a similar intelligence today. We have graduated from the same schools, colleges and universities. What can you do with men who are equally and competently fitted in mind but give them an equal chance? And, if there is no chance of equality, there must be dissatisfaction on the one hand. That dissatisfaction we have in our midst now. We have it manifested by W.E.B. Du Bois, by James Weldon Johnson; we have it manifested by the organization known as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, that seeks to bring about social equality, political equality, and industrial equality, things that are guaranteed us under the Constitution, but which, in the face of a majority race, we cannot demand, because of the terrible odds against us. In the midst of this, then, what can we do but seek an outlet of our own? Reason will dictate that there is no benefit to be derived from fighting always a losing game.

And we will lose until we have completely lost our stand in America.

Booker T told us

The wisest among my race understand that the agitation of questions of social equality is the extremest folly, and that progress in the enjoyment of all the privileges that will come to us must be the result of severe and constant struggle rather than of artificial forcing. No race that has anything to contribute to the markets of the world is long in any degree ostracized. It is important and right that all privileges of the law be ours, but it is vastly more important that we be prepared for the exercise of these privileges. The opportunity to earn a dollar in a factory just now is worth infinitely more than the opportunity to spend a dollar in an opera-house.

Malcolm X and the NoI told us

Has the government effort to bribe our people with token integration made our plight better; or has it made it worse? When you tried to integrate the white community in search of better housing, the whites there fled to the suburbs. And the community that you thought would be integrated soon deteriorated into another all-Black slum. What happened to the liberal whites? Why did they flee? We thought that they were supposed to be our friends. And why did the neighborhood deteriorate only after our people moved in?

It is the tricky real estate agents posing as white liberal friends who encourage our people to force their way into white communities, and then they themselves sell these integrated houses at such high prices that our people again are forced to take in roomers to offset the high house notes. This creates in the new area the same overcrowded conditions, and the new community soon deteriorates into the same slum conditions from which we thought we had escaped. The only one who has benefited is the white real estate agent who poses as our friend, as a liberal, and who sells us the house in a community destined by his own greedy schemes to become nothing but a high-priced slum area.

Today our people can see that integrated housing has not solved our problems. At best it was only a temporary solution. One in which only the wealthy, hand-picked Negroes found temporary benefit.

After the 1954 Supreme Court desegregation decision, the same thing happened when our people tried to integrate the schools. All the white students disappeared into the suburbs. Now the caliber of what our people thought was to be an integrated school has fallen to the same level of the slum school from which we thought we had escaped. Just as efforts to integrate housing failed miserably, efforts to integrate schools have been an even more miserable failure.

Having failed to get integrated housing and failed to get integrated schools' now the Negro leaders are demanding integrated jobs. That is they are demanding a certain quota, or percentage, of white people's jobs.

First the Negro leadership demanded the white man's house, and the whites vacated their run-down houses for us and built new homes for themselves out in the suburbs. Then the Negro leaders demanded seats for our children in the white man's schools. The whites evacuated the schools as our children moved in and they built modern schools for themselves in the suburbs. But now the Negro leadership is demanding the white man's job. Can the whites vacate their jobs like they did their homes and their schools and move to the suburbs and create more jobs ? No. Not without violence and bloodshed. The same white liberals who used to praise our people for their patient nonviolent approach have now become openly impatient and violent themselves in defense of their own jobs. Not only in the South but also in the North. Even here in the Bay Area.
...
We must have a permanent solution. A temporary solution won't do. Tokenism will no longer suffice. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad has the only permanent solution. Twenty million ex-slaves must be permanently separated from our former slavemaster and placed on some land that we can call our own. Then we can create our own jobs. Control our own economy. Solve our own problems instead of waiting on the American white man to solve our problems for us.

Freddrick Douglas told us

The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us. Gen. Banks was distressed with solicitude as to what he should do with the Negro. Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, “What shall we do with the Negro?” I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature’s plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don’t disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner-table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot-box, let him alone, don’t disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,—your interference is doing him a positive injury. Gen. Banks’ “preparation” is of a piece with this attempt to prop up the Negro. Let him fall if he cannot stand alone! If the Negro cannot live by the line of eternal justice, so beautifully pictured to you in the illustration used by Mr. Phillips, the fault will not be yours, it will be his who made the Negro, and established that line for his government.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

@David_TheMan you came to do God's Work. Bring the Word from on High to the nonbelievers.

 

[Easy-E]

That you actually try to frame self reliance as actually being reliance on white people shows how intellectually empty your stance is.

Breh, I'm done...

Nothing to address the amount of credit black Americans use

Nothing to address the unprecedented amount of black men in prison

Nothing to address our deteriorating politic power

Nothing to address the state of black American's plight against the health

Just quotes and we got enough already

 

[David_TheMan]

Breh, I'm done...

Then be done, but I can only go off what you write.

 

[Easy-E]

Then be done, but I can only go off what you write.

@David_TheMan

I'm calling for a fight of the system, not the system's help.

 

[David_TheMan]

@David_TheMan

I'm calling for a fight of the system, not the system's help.

I'm calling for fighting the system as well.
That said when you predicate you fight with "begging" for money from your oppressors, that is reliance on white morality. That isn't a fight against the system, that is relying on that system to make you whole. IMO.
That said its clear we disagree and we know why we disagree, and its easy for me to say lets jest agree to disagree and recognize we have differrent views and strategies for accomplishing the same thing.

 

[Easy-E]

I'm calling for fighting the system as well.
That said when you predicate you fight with "begging" for money from your oppressors, that is reliance on white morality. That isn't a fight against the system, that is relying on that system to make you whole. IMO.
That said its clear we disagree and we know why we disagree, and its easy for me to say lets jest agree to disagree and recognize we have differrent views and strategies for accomplishing the same thing.

We disagree because you continue to disrespect me with this "white daddy" bullshyt.

Take a second and re-read my posts.

I'm worry about my people and understand what we have and don't. And most importantly I understand why we don't have it and who took it from us.

You take money outta my pocket; I ain't paying for shyt until you pay me, especially when you telling restaurants not to serve me and stopping cab drivers from taking me to another part of town.

The answer isn't to get in my car, drive to the country and try to open up a farm to get a damn burger--a farm that will be taxed by the a$$hole that stopped me from eating in the city.

We both wanna go the same place, but, I'm asking you to be realistic. I'm talking to the steps before self reliance. We're just not equipped for that--yet.

 

[David_TheMan]

We disagree because you continue to disrespect me with this "white daddy" bullshyt.

Take a second and re-read my posts.

I'm worry about my people and understand what we have and don't. And most importantly I understand why we don't have it and who took it from us.

You take money outta my pocket; I ain't paying for shyt until you pay me, especially when you telling restaurants not to serve me and stopping cab drivers from taking me to another part of town.

The answer isn't to get in my car, drive to the country and try to open up a farm to get a damn burger--a farm that will be taxed by the a$$hole that stopped me from eating in the city.

We both wanna go the same place, but, I'm asking you to be realistic. I'm talking to the steps before self reliance. We're just not equipped for that--yet.

You literally said the same to me, with regard to me seeking white acceptance yourself. I just threw it back at you, and its not like I said it as an insult. I literally described why I see it that way. If you to explain why it wasn't thats on you, but I never personally insulted you, just your argument.

As for being realistic. I feel I'm being perfectly realistic. You can't expect or beg or ask anything from white people because they aren't moral and they don't want to be righteous. If the majority of them were we wouldn't have been wronged and we wouldn't continue to be wronged. So its foolish and unrealistic to think if you keep of begging them for favors that they will give it to you and do something in the interest for black americans.

Simple as that.

Like I said we both seem to want the same end, but I think you are being unrealistic and putting too much faith into needing a white helping hand that is never going to come and if it does come will come with strings attached to ensure they benefit at our expense.

So like I said before you want to agree to disagree, I'm fine with that, but if you want to claim your plan is "realistic" and the side I fall on is unrealistic well I'm going to tell you exactly why I feel the way I do and I'm going to breakdown not only why I disagree but why I think your path is wrong and misguided and what I think the cause of that misguidedness comes from.

 

[MajorVitaman]

Everyone in this thread who doesn’t have a masters degree or make at least 6 figures or own an actual non-entertainment related business in this thread is useless to black society in the grand scheme of things.

Europinions aren't ever valid kid

 

[Poitier]

David is a moron

 

[Poitier]

Didn't say public education was started in 1979. I said there was no nationalized public education system until 1979 and the formation of the federal Dept. of Education. Before that public education was run by the states.

That changes what I said about White people controlling the educations Blacks received? no dumbass

Using currency like a dollar or pound or gold or silver and it not being printed or minted by the nation you are in doesn't mean a nation isn't dependent.

Ummmm it actually does mean you have the ability to react to other countries monetary policy stupid

What does relining have to do with my point that black infrastructure existed?

How can people with their own infrastructure be redlined into undesirable areas of a city retard?