Bron averaging more PPG than Steph while averaging more APG than Curry has in his whole career

[Draje]

LeBron's ability as a defensive anchor really is quite overrated, and has deteriorated since going back to Cleveland (even in Miami, both Bosh and Battier had just as much importance, if not more on defense). Even in the playoffs, LeBron takes a bunch of possessions off and swoops in to crash the boards to prop up his stats and start the fast break. His man-to-man defense hasn't been shyt for a while now too.

The only real weakness in Durant's defense is he can be inconsistent. Otherwise, he's been the better defender since probably 2015.

Yeah, he definitely phones it in and takes possessions but he has ungodly high basketball IQ, experience, and the ability to turn it up when needed. Lebron's vision, decision making, athleticism, size, and versatility allows him to blow up plays in the most unexpected moments. Lebron is also great at using the threat of his presence to deter shots and make players second guess their decision.

I don't find him overrated. He's definitely a defensive fulcrum and hos versatility is the lifeblood of their defense.

Bosh was ungodly amazing as a rim protector but we saw Lebron step in and still anchor the defense when Bosh went down against the Pacers. His rebounding (Especially in the playoffs) and ability to play bigger than his size was key to that defense because it allowed Bosh to stay mobile.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Curry had a spark and got exposed in the finals. Put Shump, JR and Delly to shadow his every move. Then have Kyrie, Jr, Shump and Bron attack him on offense to kill his confidence. Once his shot not falling he become an average role player. We ain't forget all the hype that nígga got when he won the finals and all during the 73-9 season. Back to back MVPs and oh yeah aka mr.unanimous

The things LeBron stans say.

 

[Draje]

The funny thing about this is if you replace Durant with LeBron in 2014 and surround him with: Jackson, Thabo, Ibaka and Perkins, he too would lose to Memphis in a series. That Grizzlies team would be his kryptonite, especially with a squad that didn't have great shooters.

Why because you're a LeBron stan?

Ole I like to use the box score when it makes LeBron look noticeably greater, but disregard them when they don't ass nikka.



Go and check the play-by-play of their matchups. A LeBron stan accusing other players of bumping up #s in garbage time - I've heard it all now.

Yeah, maybe. But they'd fair better and I'd trust Lebron to lead them better in that situation than Durant did. Lebron is also much better at creating out of the post, a smarter passer, and better able to take advantage of hard doubles.

I'm not using box score statistics. I don't really care about Lebron's box score statistics in this. I'm not saying he's better because of box score statistics. Hell, he might not even better this year. But regular season Lebron isn't the same thing as Playoff Lebron so him losing those hand doesn't matter.

Show me the play by play of that Miami vs. OKC matchups, show Durant going off on Lebron, and not when the game was pretty much out of reach. And you act like I care that Lebron has padded in stats in overtime. Of course he has. I'm talking about in the context of their games against each other.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The Warriors are better, it's expected, and the only assists that matter are team assists, and no team comes even close to them in this category.

I'd go a step further and look at how many open looks the Warriors get through not only Curry's presence, initial set playmaking/passing and secondary playmaking/passing, but how he drags entire defenses with his off-ball activity - allowing players to operate with the ball and in more space, and therefore actually making them better players by helping them develop their skillsets. We've had players like Reggie who can warp defenses without the ball, and we've had players like Magic who can warp defenses with the ball, but not a player who can warp defenses doing both.

I've said it many a time, but if you were to look at how many scoring opportunities Curry created for his team last season he would be #1 in the league by a great margin.

 

[JordanwiththeWiz]

What exactly did @KOBE say that was untrue?

Head-to-head matchups during the regular season (18 games played), their surface stats read as follows:

Durant - 28.9 ppg on 20.5 shots, 6.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists
LeBron - 28.8 ppg on 20.8 shots, 7.1 rebounds, and 6.6 assists

Head-to-head matchups during the post-season (five games played), their surface stats read as follows:

By just simply referencing their team records seems to me y'all are suggesting there's been this great margin between their performances when they face each other. When in fact Durant has been LeBron's best rival throughout his career. No other player has been able to go toe-to-toe with him (and even outplay him on occasion - he's outplayed him both times this season) like Durant has, and that's without mentioning LeBron was 3-4 years deep before Durant was even in the league - he had nearly half a decade head start on him. While granted, Durant isn't quite the playmaker LeBron is, he damn sure as hell ain't no slouch in that area - his assist #s would look a lot different if he didn't play with a PG that dominated the ball as much as Westbrook did. I mean take a look at his #s when Westbrook was out for two months during his MVP-run in '13/'14:

He did all that without dominating the ball too. I can only imagine the #s he would've averaged if Westbrook was injured for the entire season.

He acting like KD was a better rebounder, rim protector and overall defender.

He's the better scorer but that's where it ends.

KD is the 2nd best player in the league even in his MVP season nobody was saying he was better than Lebron.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Yeah, maybe. But they'd fair better and I'd trust Lebron to lead them better in that situation than Durant did. Lebron is also much better at creating out of the post, a smarter passer, and better able to take advantage of hard doubles.

Then you have to take into account how LeBron wouldn't be able to operate from the post the same without shooters and how that would affect the entire offense. You have to take into account how teams treat Durant's shooting ability and off-ball play, and how LeBron's tendency to dominate the ball would affect the entire offense. Especially against a team like the '13/'14 Grizzlies who'd punish the shyt out of him by throwing a # of defenders and looks his way.

It isn't as simple as you're making it out to be.

I'm not using box score statistics. I don't really care about Lebron's box score statistics in this. I'm not saying he's better because of box score statistics. Hell, he might not even better this year. But regular season Lebron isn't the same thing as Playoff Lebron so him losing those hand doesn't matter.

Of course you're not using the box score because you can't use it in reference to LeBron dominating him in the manner that their team H2H record suggests. Not to mention, he couldn't stop Durant in the 2012 Finals when he was scratching the surface of what he could become, and LeBron was basically at his peak (half the reason why Battier took turns on him, because LeBron was basically ineffective when guarding him). So you can miss with all the regular season/playoff LeBron talk.

Show me the play by play of that Miami vs. OKC matchups, show Durant going off on Lebron, and not when the game was pretty much out of reach. And you act like I care that Lebron has padded in stats in overtime. Of course he has. I'm talking about in the context of their games against each other.

These are just an example from the 2012 Finals (where he averaged 30.6 ppg on 54% - more points on great efficiency than LeBron):

Heat vs. Thunder - Play-By-Play - June 12, 2012 - ESPN (Durant made two FTs after being fould when the Thunder had a nine-pt lead with 12 seconds left)
Heat vs. Thunder - Play-By-Play - June 14, 2012 - ESPN (game was decided by four points and OKC were within two points with 40 seconds left - basically there was no garbage time)
Thunder vs. Heat - Play-By-Play - June 17, 2012 - ESPN (game was within one point with about a minute to go, and OKC didn't score on the last three posessions - Miami won by 6)
Thunder vs. Heat - Play-By-Play - June 19, 2012 - ESPN (game was within three points with 40 seconds to go, OKC didn't score on the remainder of their possessions and Miami won by six points)
Thunder vs. Heat - Play-By-Play - June 21, 2012 - ESPN (Durant and the starters were taken out with around five minutes to go and down by 23 points - Durant's last bucket was with eight minutes remaining and down by 20)

Basically, Durant had all of TWO points across the entire Finals in garbage time/when the game was out of reach (LeBron had a lot more), and that was when he got fouled and sent to the line when the Thunder were in front - it wasn't like he was padding his stats.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

He acting like KD was a better rebounder, rim protector and overall defender.

The margin between their rebounding abilities and impact is basically dead even - LeBron may be better at boxing out and identifying weak spots in the RA, but Durant has the wingspan/reach to grab boards that are out of LeBron's reach. It's really not worth addressing since it's basically a wash. Durant is definitively the better rim protector - LeBron has never shown the ability to protect the rim that way the Durant has over the last two seasons. Durant has been the better overall defender since about 2015.

He's the better scorer but that's where it ends.

There's a lot more to it than just him being the better scorer, it isn't as if they both have the same style, shooting ability and operate in the same way (on/off ball) and Durant just happens to more than he does.

KD is the 2nd best player in the league even in his MVP season nobody was saying he was better than Lebron.

KD has had an argument for being the better player since the '13/'14 season - the strongest being this season.

 

[DlAMONDZ]

The Warriors are better

I don't know about that

Sure they got the better record but the Cavs got Bron and Kyrie. 2 players better than arguably the Warriors best player (Curry). Nevermind the fact that Bron is also far better than Kevin Durant (just look at their head 2 head record)

Warriors are massive underdogs

 

[BLAZO da GAWD]

I don't know about that

Sure they got the better record but the Cavs got Bron and Kyrie. 2 players better than arguably the Warriors best player (Curry). Nevermind the fact that Bron is also far better than Kevin Durant (just look at their head 2 head record)

Warriors are massive underdogs

 

[ikbm]

I don't know about that

Sure they got the better record but the Cavs got Bron and Kyrie. 2 players better than arguably the Warriors best player (Curry). Nevermind the fact that Bron is also far better than Kevin Durant (just look at their head 2 head record)

Warriors are massive underdogs

kyrie is not better than curry
the warriors are not massive underdogs
trash ass narratives that no one with a brain believes

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Head to head matchups mean fukk all in comparing what player is better. That's legitimate nonsense as what happened in a head to head matchup between them in 2010 means absolutely nothing in 2017.

KD is a better scorer, a better rebounder, the better rim protector, and better overall defender. The gap between Durant and Lebron's playmaking is as big as the gap between their shooting ability.

Not so funny now huh?

 

[Roland Coltrane]

I don't know about that

Sure they got the better record but the Cavs got Bron and Kyrie. 2 players better than arguably the Warriors best player (Curry). Nevermind the fact that Bron is also far better than Kevin Durant (just look at their head 2 head record)

Warriors are massive underdogs

somebody's been watching too much

 

[KOBE]

KD is a better scorer but a Lebron is a better, more well-rounded offensive player. Lebron is also much more composed, has higher basketball IQ, and has a different gear in big games.

Mental fortitude accounts for a lot, especially in the playoffs. Durant is a better rim protector but Lebron is a better defensive anchor who has better understandings of when to gamble whereas Durant leaves most of that to Green.

But Durant is definitely playing better than Lebron this year but regular season Lebron just doesn't really matter. Everyone knows playoff Lebron is a different beast and he keeps proving it. Hawks, Bulls, Raptors, etc.

Lebron's defense AIN'T shyt when he can't hide on someone to play free safety. If he actually has to guard another great offensive talent he gets abused quite badly. He's no damn anchor.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

KD has had an argument for being the better player since the '13/'14 season - the strongest being this season.

5-10 from 3PT

:wtflebron:


@Gil Scott-Heroin thinks Durant is the best player in the League though. :bronumad:

@KOBE

Two of MANY receipts.