BREAKING: School shooting in Uvalde, Texas. 21 dead including shooter. (RIP to the victims)

Bolzmark

Bolzmark

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Rhakim said:
You can't ignore that a lot of these killings do come from young people 20 or under. Even if they would still kill at 21, they're much more likely to have been exposed as fukked up and built up a record (or gotten themselves incarcerated) by that point and thus not be in position to do it anymore.






That's why you have to expand background checks past backgrounds and include references. They've shown references are extremely effective in background checks for three reasons:

1. Most people who don't trust someone with a gun are not going to officially co-sign that person acquiring a gun
2. Someone who is thinking about plotting something doesn't want other people in their life to know about it and might not go through if they have to cross that line of telling 3 people they know that they're trying to get a gun/guns
3. Hearing that someone is trying to get a gun can be a real warning sign to the people in their life that some sort of intervention is immediately necessary





If he has handguns instead, then the cops likely take him down at the beginning and he never even reaches the classroom.

If he's 21 instead of 18, then he's likely already gotten caught up in the legal system by then. If he's gone 3 more years clean then he's more likely than not to have grown out of whatever bullshyt he was going through. Teenage brains are simply less developed, that's a fact.

If his background check included references, it sounds like there's a ton of people who knew he was messed up and would have asked questions. Where would he have found 3 people who knew him personally who would cosign that? He sounds like too much of a loner to even trust 3 people who actually knew him with that info.
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You make valid points but the problem is I'm not talking about this one kind of incident. The vast majority of gun violence is regular street violence, not these mass shootings. And I left out an important point - when you say you support the 2nd amendment, that means you are ok with the mass production of firearms, even if only handguns, into society. It is ridiculous to think a percentage of them won't end up in the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, or reckless people. The fact is in America, no matter what gun control laws are implemented, if you want a gun, you can get one. The criminal element renders the background checks moot.
This is not just about what 2nd amendment advocates find acceptable. The fact is just by allowing guns into society, you cannot control whos hands they end up in. These shootings reaaallllyyyy shouldn't be that surprising at all.

It doesnt matter anyway. We are wayyyyyyy too saturated with guns to make that kind of change anyway. This will continue as long as there is a United States.
 
Dwight Howard

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Bolzmark said:
I been thinking on it brehs. And I'm really coming to the conclusion that this can't just be blamed on Republicans and the NRA. This is really on anyone who supports the Second Amendment (me included). Here's why:

- If you support the 2nd Amendment, that means you are comfortable with instruments of death in the hands of civilians. It's that simple. We ask the same question all the time - "why don't other countries experience this?" Well...do you know how many countries on the planet actually have a constitutional right to bear arms? THREE. The U.S., Mexico, and Guatemala.

- What do "gun control" advocates want? Universal background checks, a prohibition on assault rifles, and the required age to own a gun to be 21. That pretty much sums it up.

- Age - I guess a 21 year old may be more responsible, but these shootings are not about youth. They are about either evil, mental health issues, recklessness, or a combination of the three. People of all ages kill. I believe this would do little to nothing to curb gun violence in this country.

- Background checks - What Steve Kerr was focused on during his speech was the fact that there is a bill to require universal background checks just sitting in Congress and they refuse to vote on it. Yes universal background checks is basic common sense. How do you justify requiring a check at a gun store, but then down the street at the gun show it's not required? Makes zero sense. But as much as Democrats talk about background checks, they are only effective against someone who actually has a criminal background. If they are clean they can get a gun under what Dems and gun control advocates propose. The dude who shot up the school yesterday passed his background check.

- Assault rifles - I have not heard a compelling reason yet why these are allowed to be owned by civilians. Outlawing them is also common sense. But as much attention as they get, please understand that they make up a small fraction of the gun deaths in the U.S. Statistics show that in 2019 , assault weapons were used to kill 364 people. The number of people killed by handguns? 6,365.

- Are we naive enough to believe that this dude couldn't have slaughtered the same amount of kids with 2 handguns? And handguns are much more concealable. With a pair of cargo pants you could probably carry 6 or 8 of them at least. While an assault rifle requires two hands, you can fire a handgun with one. Dude could have literally shot up both sides of the classroom at the same time. I was watching CNN last night in awe as two guests made it a point for several minutes to say that the kids would have been better off getting shot by handguns than an assault rifle. In fact, in a closed in space like a classroom, I'm not sure it's not more advantageous to have a handgun.

Change the facts of what happened to fit under what gun control advocates are asking for. Let's say instead of 18 he was 21. Instead of the AR-15, he had two .40 caliber handguns. He actually passed a background check so that's a moot point. How does this end differently?

I feel like almost everyone is on the same side of the gun issue. Because the issue should be guns vs. no guns. Yes of course the Republicans are further down the line, with their crazy positions on guns, but just about everybody is on the same side. I haven't heard Dems complain about the fact that the gun industry manufactured 11.3 million guns in one year alone. I guess as long as they were handguns, no problem.
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Great post
 
OJ Simpsom

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FTonLTiXwAAzTD_


:jbhmm:So the high school dropout's Grandma paying his cell phone bill, but he could afford 2 AR-15s and a ton of expensive ammo.
 
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breakfuss said:
Yes.
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Sad an innocent kid lost his life.

Now, his father can fukk off all the way to hell..he thought he was special and privileged and things happen only to other people and hes somehow covered cause hes a gun nut. Bet he won't rock that shirt ever again
 
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Those cops that were on scene initially... Wow, I don't see how they not gonna off themselves. It's only going to get worse with time and people getting the details on how spectacularly they failed. Especially given the fact that dude has no protection as falsely reported.
 
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Bolzmark said:
You make valid points but the problem is I'm not talking about this one kind of incident. The vast majority of gun violence is regular street violence, not these mass shootings. And I left out an important point - when you say you support the 2nd amendment, that means you are ok with the mass production of firearms, even if only handguns, into society. It is ridiculous to think a percentage of them won't end up in the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, or reckless people. The fact is in America, no matter what gun control laws are implemented, if you want a gun, you can get one. The criminal element renders the background checks moot.
This is not just about what 2nd amendment advocates find acceptable. The fact is just by allowing guns into society, you cannot control whos hands they end up in. These shootings reaaallllyyyy shouldn't be that surprising at all.

It doesnt matter anyway. We are wayyyyyyy too saturated with guns to make that kind of change anyway. This will continue as long as there is a United States.
Click to expand...


You're still ignoring that gun control states have far fewer guns in criminal hands and far less homicide and suicide than non-gun control states. So there's proof that it DOES work. You can't keep saying it doesn't work when the evidence is staring you in the face.

Can some criminals still get them? Of course. Will as many criminals get them? Of course not.

And two major ways to reduce that "mass production of firearms" pipeline is to eliminate non-background check purchases and straw purchases. Take those away and you immediately reduce demand by 20-30% because those guns won't be bought in the first place if the initial legal buyers lose their pipeline. Yes, straw purchases are illegal, selling to criminals is illegal, but gun lobby has purposely made both laws impossible to enforce due to the legal loopholes. If you close those loopholes (which could be done simply by making gun registration and background checks mandatory for all sales), then you have fewer guns on the street.

Did you see this post?

www.thecoli.com

How to Reduce Shootings (NY Times Article)

I was going to post this in the Uvalde shooting thread in TLR at first, but since the article is so long I decided it should go here instead. How to Reduce Shootings America has been shaken — once again — by mass shootings. On May 14, a gunman killed 10 people in a supermarket in Buffalo. On...
www.thecoli.com www.thecoli.com





Bolzmark said:
You make valid points but the problem is I'm not talking about this one kind of incident. The vast majority of gun violence is regular street violence, not these mass shootings.
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But you asked about that shooting specifically and asked how it would stop that shooting. And I proved to you that ANY ONE of the three steps I suggested could have stopped the shooting. Now you're moving the goalposts.

And except for assault weapons (which are much more about mass shootings than common crime), all my points are still valid. A hugely disproportionate amount of gun crime is committed by young people - raising the age of gun purchase will still help. A ton of gun crime is committed by people who have evaded background checks by private sales, the lack of background references, or straw purchases - so closing those loopholes will still help. And instituting a universal waiting period will help with many crimes of passion and especially suicides, plus allow the background checks to be more effective.
 
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