Bone Thugs E. 1999 Eternal-Top 5 Album of All Time

[JustCKing]

Just basic logic. Past commercial performance should factor into present day streaming. One would expect Puff to outstream Cormega for example, just based in past commercial performance.

I missed this post. We have seen proof that past commercial performance DOES NOT factor into present day streaming. There is NO LOGIC in that. Just based on the fact that 2001 had no songs that were commercial juggernauts during its run, yet something like "Still Dre" has far more streams than songs that were bigger in 1999. Same goes for the other songs in his top 5.

Puff and Cormega is comparing one extreme to another. For starters, Mega is underground and indy. He wasn't even Rawkus underground. Puff's a label. Nobody's looking at past commercial performance for them because NOBODY would ever compare the two of them anyway until you just did.

 

[mobbinfms]

You literally agreed by saying "we don't have the specific data, but that doesn't mean we don't have some data".

Agreed with what? That we don’t have specific data for Illmatic and Warren G’s album? What does that have to do with you attempting to argue that the top 4 albums are the most timeless in descending order and my arguing that you need to look to context? You are the one who has been ignoring context and trying to ascribe to me the view that the top 4 list was the end all be all when I rejected that argument based on context immediately.

 

[mobbinfms]

When I asked you about how "Don't Cha" having 300 million views accounted for Busta having 2 million more monthly listeners than Nas, you couldn't answer that.

You are definitely missing some posts. I’ve responded to this twice.

 

[JustCKing]

Agreed with what? That we don’t have specific data for Illmatic and Warren G’s album? What does that have to do with you attempting to argue that the top 4 albums are the most timeless in descending order and my arguing that you need to look to context? You are the one who has been ignoring context and trying to ascribe to me the view that the top 4 list was the end all be all when I rejected that argument based on context immediately.

Because you are attempting to apply a "this artist's music is more timeless because it has more streams because it wasn't as commercially successful back in the day". I posted that list because these were all 90's album and in spite of them being commercially successful, there were definitely albums that were more commercially successful in the 90's that weren't on the list. I said this pages ago. The fact that 2001 is #1 speaks volumes. Yes, it sold, but definitely not as huge of a commercial juggernaut as Puff's No Way Out, which wasn't one of the albums that were most streamed. Furthermore, if we were to go by your logic, as I said MULTIPLE times, 2001 would be the most timeless album of the 90's.

 

[mobbinfms]

And to put this whole "Don't Cha" being the catalyst for Busta having over 10 million monthly listeners to rest, DMX and Nas have about the same amount of monthly listeners. DMX's "X Gon Give It To Ya" had 526 million streams. Nas has no song with anywhere near that amount of streams, but they have about the same amount of monthly listeners. Busta has more than both and "Don't Cha" has nowhere near the amount of streams of "X Gon Give It To Ya" despite it being more recent and much bigger on the charts. "Party Up" is X's biggest chart hit and it isn't bigger.

Those songs are DMX songs. People are streaming them to hear DMX. The PCD situation is different because the vast majority of people streaming Don’t Cha aren’t doing that to hear Busta. They are outliers to his streaming audience. So he is running up numbers based on PCD fans streaming their music.

 

[JustCKing]

Those songs are DMX songs. People are streaming them to hear DMX. The PCD situation is different because the vast majority of people streaming Don’t Cha aren’t doing that to hear Busta. They are outliers to his streaming audience. So he is running up numbers based on PCD fans streaming their music.

And you're still wrong. Busta has more monthly listeners than they do.

 

[mobbinfms]

And you're still wrong. Busta has more monthly listeners than they do.

What does that have to do with anything? Busta is getting streams from people streaming his music plus anyone streaming that one PCD song.

 

[mobbinfms]

Breh, this is clowning at this point. There no such thing as specific percentages in underground and Mainstream. It is either underground or Mainstream. Nas was NOT an underground rapper in 1994. This was Nas dropping on Sony/Columbia who was basically labelmates with Michael Jackson and not Jeru The Damaja on Payday Records. Sonically, I don't see how it differed from Craig Mack's Flava In Ya Ear aside from Illmatic having better production. Both Mainstream albums . It doesn't differ much sonically from Ready To Die either. Only difference is Ready To Die has two songs with Total singing and another song that features Diana King.

There is a big difference between Juicy and anything on Illmatic. Don’t forget the g funk whistle on Big Poppa either. They knew what they were doing.
Ok. So if Illmatic was a mainstream/commercial album, why were the purists up in arms about IWW? Why were there claims that he sold out if he was already making mainstream/commercial rap?
And commercial/mainstream rap is not like pregnancy where you either are or you aren’t. There are elements that you can incorporate for a more commercial/mainstream sound. So it is a spectrum. There’s a big difference between It Aint Hard to Tell and Getting Jiggy With It.

 

[TripleAgent]

Of Cleveland rappers? Sure.

 

[JustCKing]

There is a big difference between Juicy and anything on Illmatic. Don’t forget the g funk whistle on Big Poppa either. They knew what they were doing.
Ok. So if Illmatic was a mainstream/commercial album, why were the purists up in arms about IWW? Why were there claims that he sold out if he was already making mainstream/commercial rap?
And commercial/mainstream rap is t pregnancy. There are elements that you can incorporate for a more commercial/mainstream sound. So it is a spectrum. There’s a big difference between It Aint Hard to Tell and Getting Jiggy With It.

This is Nas's "Juicy" and I think I remember Nas saying as much. It was also supposed to sample Mtume's "Juicy Fruit", but they went with Gap Band's "Yearning For Your Love" instead:



Purists turned on Nas because he came back with a sound that was far more blatantly commercial i.e. interpolation Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams" for the hook to "Street Dreams" and Lauryn's hook on "If I Ruled The World". Not to mention the Hype Williams videos, the suits, and the mafiosos themes. And a lot of those same purists ignored the similar themes on Illmatic.

There's also a big difference between "If I Ruled The World" and "Gettin Jiggy With It". Both are mainstream/commercial songs. They exist on differing extremes.

 

[JustCKing]

What does that have to do with anything? Busta is getting streams from people streaming his music plus anyone streaming that one PCD song.

It has A LOT to do with it. How does Busta have more monthly listens from a song you're claiming is the catalyst for driving traffic for his listens when they have multiple songs that are above 200 million mark?

 

[mobbinfms]

This is Nas's "Juicy" and I think I remember Nas saying as much. It was also supposed to sample Mtume's "Juicy Fruit", but they went with Gap Band's "Yearning For Your Love" instead:



Purists turned on Nas because he came back with a sound that was far more blatantly commercial i.e. interpolation Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams" for the hook to "Street Dreams" and Lauryn's hook on "If I Ruled The World". Not to mention the Hype Williams videos, the suits, and the mafiosos themes. And a lot of those same purists ignored the similar themes on Illmatic.

There's also a big difference between "If I Ruled The World" and "Gettin Jiggy With It". Both are mainstream/commercial songs. They exist on differing extremes.

This was my point. There is a spectrum from commercial to underground.
We are saying the same thing here.
Surely you would agree with me that the sound of Illmatic is on the underground side of the spectrum and not the commercial/mainstream side?
Nothing to do with which label it was released on. Or who else was on the label. Just purely the sound of the music. Nothing more.

 

[mobbinfms]

It has A LOT to do with it. How does Busta have more monthly listens from a song you're claiming is the catalyst for driving traffic for his listens when they have multiple songs that are above 200 million mark?

Because Busta has his own audience.
What don’t you understand here?
The PCD song itself generates monthly listeners for PCD and Busta.
Then every other PCD song generates monthly listeners for PCD and every other Busta song generates monthly listeners for Busta.
This is really a straightforward idea. Let me know if you still don’t understand.

 

[JustCKing]

Because Busta has his own audience.
What don’t you understand here?
The PCD song itself generates monthly listeners for PCD and Busta.
Then every other PCD song generates monthly listeners for PCD and every other Busta song generates monthly listeners for Busta.
This is really a straightforward idea. Let me know if you still don’t understand.

I understand that. What you're not understanding is how does Busta end up with more monthly streams than PCD when they still have other songs with 200 million+ monthly listens. You're not telling me how Busta gets 10.5 million listeners and they are barely over 10 million.

And even if he's getting more traffic off this one song, this isn't the case for other artists. For example, Luda is featured on "Yeah". This song does not appear in his popular songs list. It has 727 million listens. His monthly listeners is 6.7-6.8 million.

 

[JustCKing]

This was my point. There is a spectrum from commercial to underground.
We are saying the same thing here.
Surely you would agree with me that the sound of Illmatic is on the underground side of the spectrum and not the commercial/mainstream side?
Nothing to do with which label it was released on. Or who else was on the label. Just purely the sound of the music. Nothing more.

We aren't saying the same things. You're saying it has to be either/or. I'm saying that there's a gray area and that's where Illmatic sits. Same goes for Ready To Die aside from the singing on three songs and a West Coast flavored "Big Poppa". Ready To Die is grimey, dusty, raw NY album for the most part. Even the album version of "One More Chance" is raw. I mean, it's an album that has:

Things Done Changed
Gimme The Loot
Machine Gun Funk
Warning (even as a single, it was raw)
Ready To Die
The What
Everyday Struggle
Me And My
Unbelievable
Suicidal Thoughts

That leaves: "Juicy", "One More Chance", "Big Poppa", "Respect" and "Friend of Mine".