Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (PC, Xbox One, Switch, PS4)

feelosofer

#ninergang
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
46,958
Reputation
6,426
Daps
130,021
Reppin
Brick City, NJ
I'm aware of all this. Which goes back to my point, a AAA title budget and an indie budget cannot be the same; especially in what went in to said game (Phantom Dust) and this one. If 5 million is expected to be adequate funding for a major exclusive, no way this 2.5 D platformer has the same 5 million dollar budget.

In any case, the donors have put up nearly half of the imaginary budget themselves. So what say you now? What does he do with the extra 1.5 million dollars? Don't tell me that's what it cost to add a secret character and boss. You guys need to calm down, I'm not hating at all, but duke is pocketing that money as I've said all along. It's that simple.

Chances are the extra probably goes in goes to the salaries of the people and himself. But adding a secret character is not as simple a process as you make it especially in a 2.5D game, you have to design that character, balance skillsets and playtest it to make sure it's viable which is not nearly as simple as it seems.

But that is fair, the market clearly dictates that they value the contribution he is making to the gaming world and his track record clearly indicates that. Crowd-funding is the free market at its most free.
 

Doomsday

Superstar
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
9,928
Reputation
2,498
Daps
23,526
If he pockets the extra money and spends it on weed and prostitutes nothing would be wrong with that. :yeshrug:

I don't care that he's doing it, as I've said a half dozen times already. God bless the hustle and the hustler.
 

MeachTheMonster

YourFriendlyHoodMonster
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
68,385
Reputation
3,643
Daps
106,994
Reppin
Tha Land
I'm aware of all this. Which goes back to my point, a AAA title budget and an indie budget cannot be the same; especially in what went in to said game (Phantom Dust) and this one. If 5 million is expected to be adequate funding for a major exclusive, no way this 2.5 D platformer has the same 5 million dollar budget. Your explanation doesn't work for my Microsoft example because they were paying for everything and felt that 5 million was enough, not to mention the debate was wrapped around development.

In any case, the donors have put up nearly half of the imaginary budget themselves. So what say you now? What does he do with the extra 1.5 million dollars? Don't tell me that's what it cost to add a secret character and boss. You guys need to calm down, I'm not hating at all, but duke is pocketing that money as I've said all along. It's that simple.
First you have a poor understanding of the phantom dust situation. The 5 mil wasn't for the full game. It was merely for a prototype or proof of concept. The full game would have cost a lot more.

Second it doesn't mater what the graphics look like you still have to pay programmers to make the game. You still need artists and voice actors. You still need writers and engineers, producers, directors, etc

Lets make a hypothetical scenario. You are making an "indie" game.

To make it simple lets say you need one programmer, One artist, one engineer, one producer. We'll even skimp on voice acting and direction since its an inde.

Each of these jobs pulls in six figures. So for one year working on the game your budget is at the very least 400,000. And that's without even talking about purchasing equipment or Paying for office space, testers, researchers, community managers, ect.

Then you have to talk about licensing fees. Most games use engines or other technology that you have to pay money in order to use. Then in order to sell the game you have to pay each platform holder a fee in order to out the game on that platform. Its said it costs 6 figures just to launch on each perspective platform.

5 mill is cheap for any game in 2015
 

Doomsday

Superstar
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
9,928
Reputation
2,498
Daps
23,526
First you have a poor understanding of the phantom dust situation. The 5 mil wasn't for the full game. It was merely for a prototype or proof of concept. The full game would have cost a lot more.

Wrong. The proof of concept was the part they displayed in the screenshot when Xbox green-lighted and granted them the 5 million in the first place. They liked what they saw and they wanted the development team to finish it. The team asked for more money in order to do this, Microsoft felt that they already had enough money, so the whole thing was blown up. What would the point of Microsoft asking for a single player campaign, more fleshed out multiplayer, and gameplay footage for E3, all for a "proof of concept"? No, they had already passed that point in development.

Second it doesn't mater what the graphics look like you still have to pay programmers to make the game. You still need artists and voice actors. You still need writers and engineers, producers, directors, etc

Of course but that doesn't mean it takes 5 million dollars to do it, or even 500k for that matter. Dust: An Elysian Tale had all that and was done with a 40k from Microsoft plus extra in-house.

Lets make a hypothetical scenario. You are making an "indie" game.

Let's not, because this is the part where I start laughing. I know plenty about this subject.

Each of these jobs pulls in six figures.

LOL, no they don't.

Again, Dust: An Elysian Tale had great voice acting. The entire game budget was less than 100k. Probably half that.

And no I'm not arguing that DAET is on the level of this game as far as what's going into it, but I'm making a point that it can be done and the internet tends to go overboard with their obsession with high numbers and stat stuffing.

So for one year working on the game your budget is at the very least 400,000.

No it wouldn't be.

And that's without even talking about purchasing equipment or Paying for office space, testers, researchers, community managers, ect.

Which costs millions right? LOL

Then you have to talk about licensing fees. Most games use engines or other technology that you have to pay money in order to use.

A lot of them are free now. Taking a hit on the backend doesn't mean anything because it's based according to the success of the product. That's not an issue.

Then in order to sell the game you have to pay each platform holder a fee in order to out the game on that platform. Its said it costs 6 figures just to launch on each perspective platform.

No it varies, depending on said platform, who you know, and networking skills in general.

5 mill is cheap for any game in 2015

An indie game? Definitely not.

More work and degree of difficulty went into Shadowrun and that kickstarter was 1 million. That Baldur's wannabe game won 1-2 million kickstarter and was marketed and critically acclaimed everywhere (granted it's PC only but my point still stands). More work and degree of difficulty was put into that game also. The idea that this 2.5 D game somehow has double the budget of those previously mentioned, and compares to AAA budgets, is laughable.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
19,364
Reputation
6,290
Daps
42,702
More work and degree of difficulty went into Shadowrun and that kickstarter was 1 million. That Baldur's wannabe game won 1-2 million kickstarter and was marketed and critically acclaimed everywhere (granted it's PC only but my point still stands). More work and degree of difficulty was put into that game also. The idea that this 2.5 D game somehow has double the budget of those previously mentioned, and compares to AAA budgets, is laughable.


How do you know how much "work and degree of difficulty" went into these games without being on the development teams? And 5 million is not a AAA budget, actual AAA games cost tens of millions.
 

MeachTheMonster

YourFriendlyHoodMonster
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
68,385
Reputation
3,643
Daps
106,994
Reppin
Tha Land
Wrong. The proof of concept was the part they displayed in the screenshot when Xbox green-lighted and granted them the 5 million in the first place. They liked what they saw and they wanted the development team to finish it. The team asked for more money in order to do this, Microsoft felt that they already had enough money, so the whole thing was blown up. What would the point of Microsoft asking for a single player campaign, more fleshed out multiplayer, and gameplay footage for E3, all for a "proof of concept"? No, they had already passed that point in development.

They never signed to make a full game. They were still shopping the game around. The 5 mil was not for a full AAA rpg.

Of course but that doesn't mean it takes 5 million dollars to do it, or even 500k for that matter. Dust: An Elysian Tale had all that and was done with a 40k from Microsoft plus extra in-house.
No that wasnt made by Microsoft. It was made by a single person who paid himself what he wanted to. You cannot compare that game to every game you want to call "indie".

Every game can't be made by one dude in his basement.


Let's not, because this is the part where I start laughing. I know plenty about this subject.
No. Its readily apparent you don't know what you are talking.

LOL, no they don't.

Again, Dust: An Elysian Tale had great voice acting. The entire game budget was less than 100k. Probably half that.
Again you can't cherry pick one game and compare every game to it. The guy that made dust still had to work another job in order to fund his own living.

Add his salary for 3 and a half years, plus licensing. Plus dev kits,

[Quoye]And no I'm not arguing that DAET is on the level of this game as far as what's going into it, but I'm making a point that it can be done and the internet tends to go overboard with their obsession with high numbers and stat stuffing.
Yes one dude can make a game in his basement while still working a full time job. No every game can't be compared to that scenario.




No it wouldn't be.



Which costs millions right? LOL
3 year of office space, equipment, expenses, etc. isn't cheap.


A lot of them are free now. Taking a hit on the backend doesn't mean anything because it's based according to the success of the product. That's not an issue.
Its money that goes to the budget of the game



No it varies, depending on said platform, who you know, and networking skills in general.
You can't get around licensing fees with networking skills. Where are you getting this nonsense from?




An indie game? Definitely not.

More work and degree of difficulty went into Shadowrun and that kickstarter was 1 million. That Baldur's wannabe game won 1-2 million kickstarter and was marketed and critically acclaimed everywhere (granted it's PC only but my point still stands). More work and degree of difficulty was put into that game also. The idea that this 2.5 D game somehow has double the budget of those previously mentioned, and compares to AAA budgets, is laughable.

You are simply talking out of your ass here. There is a fairly large team of proven and experienced devs working on this game. I'm not gonna pretend to know how much work or degree of difficulty they put in. But I do know that kinda work isn't cheap.
 

Doomsday

Superstar
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
9,928
Reputation
2,498
Daps
23,526
How do you know how much "work and degree of difficulty" went into these games without being on the development teams?

Because I know.

Aside from which, I'm not going to assume that the degree of difficulty was high if an indie dropped an 8-bit title tomorrow. I'm just weird like that.

And 5 million is not a AAA budget, actual AAA games cost tens of millions.

As we've discussed, a AAA title exclusive was expected to launch with a 5 million dollar budget.
 

Doomsday

Superstar
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Messages
9,928
Reputation
2,498
Daps
23,526
They never signed to make a full game.

Yes they did.

Initially the game was Titan Fall in it's set up. Microsoft keep making requests, the developers asked for more money to fulfill said requests, Microsoft felt they could do it with the money they already got, so it was canned.

They were still shopping the game around.

LOL, where are you getting this from? Microsoft owns the IP. Who the hell are they shopping Microsoft's game to?

The 5 mil was not for a full AAA rpg.

Yes it was.

No that wasnt made by Microsoft. It was made by a single person who paid himself what he wanted to. You cannot compare that game to every game you want to call "indie".

I know the game wasn't made by Microsoft. The guy who made it was interviewed. He made the game with Microsofts XNA kit, he was awarded 40k for it. The game had everything that you claimed would cost over 10 times that amount. It didn't.

Every game can't be made by one dude in his basement.

No doubt.

No. Its readily apparent you don't know what you are talking.

That's my line.


Yes one dude can make a game in his basement while still working a full time job. No every game can't be compared to that scenario.

Of course not I explained why I used that scenario because everyone seems to be on the idea that every game costs millions to make and that couldn't be further from the truth. I won't hold my breath to believe the grand majority of kickstarters are asking for legitmate budget prices.

3 year of office space, equipment, expenses, etc. isn't cheap.

LOL

Its money that goes to the budget of the game

What are you talking about here? The subject was dev kits, most of which are free now. Money on the backend (royalties owed per sale) have nothing to do with the game budget. It's taken out like taxes.

You can't get around licensing fees with networking skills. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

You're the one not making any sense. The only time licensing is an issue is if you're paying out-of-pocket to the publishers (Microsoft, Sony, ect). The guys who made Phantom Dust wouldn't have to pay Microsoft. The guy in the OP isn't paying for anything as he has investors who will make money on the backend.

You are simply talking out of your ass here. There is a fairly large team of proven and experienced devs working on this game. I'm not gonna pretend to know how much work or degree of difficulty they put in. But I do know that kinda work isn't cheap.

Nope. 2.5D platformers are definitely easier to make than a Diablo clone or an MMO. Ironically the Diablo clone cost less money to develop, and was fully promoted. Again, I call bullshyt on this game costing 5 mill.
 
Last edited:

Naijan

All outta Gill
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
1,382
Reputation
30
Daps
1,843
Reppin
SoCal
Looks like typical anime bull shyt game:camby:
 
Last edited:

Jx2

Veteran
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
13,491
Reputation
3,890
Daps
66,081
Reppin
NULL
Looks like typical anime bull shyt game:camby:
You know very little
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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
large.gif
 
Last edited:

Data-Hawk

I have no strings on me.
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
8,419
Reputation
1,985
Daps
16,285
Reppin
Oasis
I know it can.

Remember that one metroidvania game Dust: An Elysian Tail? One man team, only hired extra people to do voice-overs? He was an amateur, these guys are pros. No way in hell he needs a 500k for this game. I'm not knocking the hustle though.

Time = Money..


There are a lot of one-man teams out there. Most have a full time job or something to pay the bills in the mean time.
 

Data-Hawk

I have no strings on me.
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
8,419
Reputation
1,985
Daps
16,285
Reppin
Oasis
We can agree to disagree. I don't believe there is a single video game that has ever cost millions of dollars to make.

Breh, it use to be that the top game engines would run you $350K and up. The unreal engine use to cost around that much.. Now companies have changed how they make money off their engines. The model now is after your game makes a certain amount of money, the company takes a certain percentage of the revenue, this is due to more competing engines on the market now. They also charge per seat license. I'm on my iPhone and can give more details when I'm on a desktop.
 
Top