"Black people were better off during the Jim Crow era"-the coli

[Oceanicpuppy]

What lens is he looking through that shows him a "black unified" past?

a black millennial Lens. We grew up with grandparents and or parents with unified family units and communities.

The problem is, black families back then only had a handful of people jn their community that lived The Black Wallstreet lifestyle. At least the majority of black folk were living in poverty and in terror with the KKK running wild, even worse than now.

Integration could have worked for us economically for black folk with increasing our business exposure to mainstream America, just like how the Jewish did with theirs. But we played our cards wrong.

I don't understand why black people insist on comparing their plight to Jews. Jews already had economic power going back to 1500. Plus many of them are white. They have the luxury of not walking around with black skin.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

I don't understand why black people insist on comparing their plight to Jews. Jews already had economic power going back to 1500. Plus many of them are white. They have the luxury of not walking around with black skin.

I just want you to be clear that black people were never truly unified... What you're looking at is 15 to 20% of the population putting it on the line for the rest... Most blacks were against the civil rights movement

 

[VegasCAC]

If that's what they see as there reality then ok. If they see themselves at the bottom who are you to say they are wrong? A poor black male raised by a single mother in a crime ridden area sees a black unified past, Is it that far fetch for him to believe that he is at the bottom? He has no access to employment opportunities or great education. Plus he doesn't have family unit like the past. Black people have rights that they once didn't have. I get it. I just don't understand why are we asking black people to climb mountians when it was a cac that put the mountain there in the first place? My thing is, I think we are at the point were we need to start asking white people to correct themselves. white people need to do the work of unlearning and breaking down 500 years of systemic white supremacy and scientific racism within themselves. The thought of black people doing it alone is crazy. Yet we aren't seeing that thus you get black people who believe white people aren't changing and integration was a failure thus we were better off segregated, like in the past.

Right, I understand the perspective and I can see how someone could get there, but the fact remains that the comparative value judgement given to Jim Crow society (i.e. It was better) is factually incorrect and is based off of faulty understandings of history. I can't criticize how people feel, but I can criticize objectively false assumptions about the past that they are making.

I agree with you that the mountain shouldn't exist in the first place and that white people need to be involved in reversing systemic inequity. But I think you're underestimating the danger of misremembered history. History informs our present in numerous ways, including on where to go from here in terms of policy. You can't start at false assumptions if you want to move your way forward.

 

[Wild self]

a black millennial Lens. We grew up with grandparents and or parents with unified family units and communities.
I don't understand why black people insist on comparing their plight to Jews. Jews already had economic power going back to 1500. Plus many of them are white. They have the luxury of not walking around with black skin.

I was giving an example of group economics that can benefit from integration. Most black folk back then didn't even have access to BWS. It was like a better version of Atlanta today, where many blacks couldn't access to, or even know of its existence. Group economics only work widespread if black owned goods are sold to everyone. In fact, if we really LOVED EACH OTHER, integration with a black owned mindset and corporations style business could have saved all of us.

 

[MajorVitaman]

No one's actually said the quote in OP's. title, though.

Black people in America at no point have ever been "better" off.

I don't think they meant it in that way, its more so towards ownership

nikkas like to be dense and keep standards low to act like everything is cool. These will be the same dikk heads pushing that "POC solidarity" shyt.

 

[Oceanicpuppy]

I just want you to be clear that black people were never truly unified... What you're looking at is 15 to 20% of the population putting it on the line for the rest... Most blacks were against the civil rights movement

I don't know where you are from but black people in the south were a unified group. I even grew up in a black church and saw that unity slowly dissolve. Most black people were for the civil right movement because it's wasn't just about intregation it was voting rights, education equality, immigration reform and blacks freedom to live and move as they please. My family is from Alabama. Who do you think opened their church/school/business doors to black and white civil rights protestors. It certainly wasn't the white people in the south.

 

[Skrilla]

No clue why cats want to tarnish and even ridicule the efforts and gains of their ancestors. And for what?

Tarnish, nah.

I don't get why some of you can't just admit that integration had it's pros but it also had it's CONS.

Why do most want the rest to pretend like it was all positives? It definitely had it's negatives.

I also believe that in order make more progress as a people, it is necessary to examine history and make sure not to keep repeating the same mistakes. We have to learn from the past.

Doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results is the definition of insanity.


Except for The Coli, and a few guys like Jason Black, Dr Claud Anderson, Dr Boyce Watkins, etc black americans rarely talk about the CONS of integration.

Most of us just acknowledge the pros. What's wrong with admitting that there were also some negative consequences as well?

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

And what kills me is.....most black americans feel it's perfectly ok to critique this generation. But critiquing anything prior generations could have done differently is considered blasphemous even if you don't do it in a disrespectful way.

 

[BrandonBanks]

Why do you want to pretend like it was all positives? It definitely had it's negatives. I also believe that in order make more progress as a people, it is necessary to examine history and make sure not to keep repeating the same mistakes. We have to learn from the past.

Doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Most of us just acknowledge the pros. What's wrong with admitting that there were also some negative consequences as well? There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

And what kills me is.....most black americans feel it's perfectly ok to critique this generation. But critiquing anything prior generations could have done differently is considered blasphemous even if you don't do it in a disrespectful way.

 

[Skrilla]

I'm pretty sure back than it seemed like a good thing to have the choice to live wherever....I don't really hold it against them for not knowing what the all the results would be. However, my own generation shouldn't sugarcoat things and act like there were no negatives. It makes a lot of us uncomfortable to discuss it, so a lot like to sweep it under the rug.

Back then, they didn't know, but by now, WE should.

We have to do some things differently if we want things to be better for the next generation of black americans. I personally do not want to tell my kids to just go get a job from white ppl, i'm making sure that they will already have a job in my business, and eventually it will be theirs to take over. I'm not going to give them the same 'advice' i was given from most of my 'elders', which was just go to school and rely on white ppl for a job

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Not necessarily from the white women, tho.

 

[Oceanicpuppy]

Right, I understand the perspective and I can see how someone could get there, but the fact remains that the comparative value judgement given to Jim Crow society (i.e. It was better) is factually incorrect and is based off of faulty understandings of history. I can't criticize how people feel, but I can criticize objectively false assumptions about the past that they are making.

I agree with you that the mountain shouldn't exist in the first place and that white people need to be involved in reversing systemic inequity. But I think you're underestimating the danger of misremembered history. History informs our present in numerous ways, including on where to go from here in terms of policy. You can't start at false assumptions if you want to move your way forward.

I think they are just looking at the family unit that black people had and lust for that because it's so broken today. Emotionally they are invested in seeing the Jim Crow era that way. In a way, That's why you get push back. I agree with y'all in that Jim Crow was worse. I'm just saying don't discount why Millennials feel this way given the circumstances. We arent trying to dismiss the pass as easier. I am probably one of the main ones asking the coli not to look at the past incorrectly. I'm just saying we have to step back look at the present too. I had to step back look at this generation and how they are responding learn not to dismiss them or say they are invalid to have these perceptions of Jim Crow. They have to be coming from somewhere. Then I have to ask myself why do black people want to go back to a terrible time like Jim Crow? Do they know it was terrible? They probably do.. Which is a scary thing to come to terms with. These people seem to be saying "look we rather have the family unit back then the rights we have now." It really gives you a look into the hopelessness that this generation truely feels and the black mindset of today. Makes you really think. They rather NOT have the ability to Vote, integration, immigration etc. In order to have a more unified black community. You have to think about the mindset of black people in America, who really have become accustom to being treated poorly and as second class citizens. So they don't see those injustices in the past as you might see them. Just look at how the coli digest racism and anti blackness today. It's very normalized.

Tarnish, nah.

I don't get why some of you can't just admit that integration had it's pros but it also had it's CONS.

Why do most want the rest to pretend like it was all positives? It definitely had it's negatives.

I also believe that in order make more progress as a people, it is necessary to examine history and make sure not to keep repeating the same mistakes. We have to learn from the past.

Doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results is the definition of insanity.


Except for The Coli, and a few guys like Jason Black, Dr Claud Anderson, Dr Boyce Watkins, etc black americans rarely talk about the CONS of integration.

Most of us just acknowledge the pros. What's wrong with admitting that there were also some negative consequences as well?

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

And what kills me is.....most black americans feel it's perfectly ok to critique this generation. But critiquing anything prior generations could have done differently is considered blasphemous even if you don't do it in a disrespectful way.

I agree, even MLK changed his views later in life.

 

[Joe Sixpack]

No one's actually said the quote in OP's. title, though.

Black people in America at no point have ever been "better" off.

Exactly.

Our whole existence in America has been Hell.

 

[Wild self]

I'm all for pro black owned businesses and went to 3 of them today alone, but how can overall black economics can thrive when we are shut out of the world stage? The Chinese got to power by selling inferior products to America. Whites got there through rape and murder. If we black folk used integration to our advantage, and REALLY LOVED EACH OTHER, we would have taken over the planet twice over.

Why does it have to resort to laws of segregation and blatant racism for us to unite? Why can't we unite and STAY united in times of peace?

It's like people forget that we can build, regardless of time period or laws. And we need to learn to build in times of peace.

 

[BrandonBanks]

I'm pretty sure back than it seemed like a good thing to have the choice to live wherever....I don't really hold it against them for not knowing what the all the results would be.

I do But i feel what you're saying.

You're being nice about it (maybe even overly so), but a lot of dudes on here will still say you're being 'disrespectful', a disgrace, etc anyway, so you might as well just drop the filter and say it directly. Because no matter how you put it, most on here will still take offense and automatically think you're 'spitting on our ancestors graves' etc

However, my own generation shouldn't sugarcoat things and act like there were no negatives. It makes a lot of us uncomfortable to discuss it, so a lot like to sweep it under the rug.

Back then, they didn't know, but by now, WE should.

We have to do some things differently if we want things to be better for the next generation of black americans. I personally do not want to tell my kids to just go get a job from white ppl, i'm making sure that they will already have a job in my business, and eventually it will be theirs to take over. I'm not going to give them the same 'advice' i was given from most of my 'elders', which was just go to school and rely on white ppl for a job

Definitely agree.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

I don't know where you are from but black people in the south were a unified group.

I'm from Bham, Alabama... Grandmother was was in the movement... so was my Grandfather

Ralph B. Abernathy has eaten at our old crib once..... and we used to chop it up with Fred Shuttlesworth a lot......

Trust me..... the majority of black folks did not want to stir the pot back then