theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
that wouldnt change anything im saying, at the end of the day the responsibility for development of africa is on africans and they way to develop africa is through capitalism
Black People And Capitalism DON'T Mix
- Thread starter Medicate
- Start date
that wouldnt change anything im saying, at the end of the day the responsibility for development of africa is on africans and they way to develop africa is through capitalism
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
I wouldn't call it socialism
and I don't want to use race to obfuscate class, but for Black Wall Street to get off the ground and flourish, it did take more than just capitalist economics and rational profit-seeking. Racism caused a closing of the ranks and a pooling of resources.Plus, back then, no matter how rich an Afrikan was, they still had basically no power in the scheme of things. This is still true today. But back then, a white person could exploit and threaten an Afrikan much more than an Afrikan could exploit and threaten another Afrikan.
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
"Pooling Resources" was what got that off the ground. What we had was "Ujamaa". Its an inertia for survival of a GROUP of people. One would coincide it with Socialism, but that is a more european term.
Go look up who Julius Nyerere was....
You still are in love with the european style, ignoring our natural means to coincide and build together as Black people anywhere we may be.
yeah look up Julius Nyere and tanzania and socialism and see how Tanzania became another example of how marxism has failed and how it is not the path toward development
The idea is good. Nothing has to be followed to the exact. He had a great idea and a lot of other elements caused to fail. But the mentality is what we used for "Black Wall Street". When we get together, our mindset is not capitalistic, but our actions are still following the framework. They were not seeking to be greedy and selfish, which is what Capitalism is in a nutshell.
Last edited:
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
why did you say look up Julius Nyere, what has Tanzania accomplished under Julius Nyere? Is Tanzania ahead of other countries in development?
this is the problem with your thesis, is that the only way it makes sense is if you ignore all the other socialist and marxists countries for the past 100 years, you dont want to deal with the reality that marxism has failed time and time again, you just want to deal with theories
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
Julius Nyerere's policies led to important gains in education, health care, and social services.
How are the masses of Tanzanians doing now, after 30 years of undeniable capitalism?
How are the masses of Tanzanians doing now, after 30 years of undeniable capitalism?
all possible(and done) under capitalism..."Pooling Resources" was what got that off the ground. What we had was "Ujamaa". Its an inertia for survival of a GROUP of people. One would coincide it with Socialism, but that is a more european term.
Go look up who Julius Nyerere was....
You still are in love with the european style, ignoring our natural means to coincide and build together as Black people anywhere we may be.
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
What is the criteria for socialism being a success or a failure? The presence of poor people? Not fixing every single human problem within a handful of decades?
Capitalism was allowed to develop without interference from outside powers with a different mode of production for centuries. But everywhere socialism was even a prospect, capitalist powers sought to undermine it and sabotage it.
How do you all figure you can neglect this in your analyses? Don't you think if a country has to always worry about being bombed or having its government overthrown, that will distort how it develops? Don't you think having to shovel money into defense instead of development will distort the economy?
The only reason why there should be poor people in the 21st century is natural disasters or famine. We live in a world of relative abundance now. Capitalism did unleash productive forces that were restrained under feudalism (which, by the way, didn't even really exist outside of Europe and Asia).
The problem is distribution, not resources. We've got restaurants throwing out pounds and pounds of food when there are people starving on the streets in their cities.
Capitalism was allowed to develop without interference from outside powers with a different mode of production for centuries. But everywhere socialism was even a prospect, capitalist powers sought to undermine it and sabotage it.
How do you all figure you can neglect this in your analyses? Don't you think if a country has to always worry about being bombed or having its government overthrown, that will distort how it develops? Don't you think having to shovel money into defense instead of development will distort the economy?
The only reason why there should be poor people in the 21st century is natural disasters or famine. We live in a world of relative abundance now. Capitalism did unleash productive forces that were restrained under feudalism (which, by the way, didn't even really exist outside of Europe and Asia).
The problem is distribution, not resources. We've got restaurants throwing out pounds and pounds of food when there are people starving on the streets in their cities.
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
Poverty is an artificial state of affairs, especially outside of famine and natural disasters.
TBH I don't think either system can stand on its own for long, and that what we are looking at(in terms of viable economic systems) are systems where capitalism is utilized along with strong public safety nets,and little market intervention. 
I disagree.
I believe we are naturally in poverty in that wealth must be created. This is because what everyone wants adds up to more than there is...
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
and those gains became unsustainable and the system collapsed just like every socialist country has collapsed
and tanzania is not capitalist, in fact there is little capitalism in africa, that is the problem, that is why africa is so under developed
Or dictators seized its concentration of power... though you could argue communism is different from socialism
I believe communism to be socialisms corporatism if you will... HIV ---> AIDS
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
TBH I don't think either system can stand on its own for long, and that what we are looking at(in terms of viable economic systems) are systems where capitalism is utilized along with strong public safety nets,and little market intervention.
So "anarcho-capitalism" isn't viable?
At a minimum, the Earth provides much of what we need to survive. Of course, work must be mixed in for us to create greater, more sophisticated, and more comfortable things. But today in 2014, people are born into the midst of abundance. The existing distribution of wealth and power denies the masses of people the ability to determine their circumstances, take control of their lives, and provide for themselves.
How much of "wants" is created through advertising, how people are socialized, and the like, and does not stem from actual needs?
In my estimation, Cuba comes the closest to actual socialist practices. And that is the only country from the period still going strong.
Tanzania was coming from a place of tremendously low industrial development. But gains in literacy and health were not lost
Stop with the revisionist history. If you want to debate specifics of Nyerere's policies, we can do that, but again you fail to consider the role of outside forces in sabotaging economic progress and performance.If Tanzania is not capitalist today, what the hell do you think it is?
It may be state capitalist, but it is not socialist.Or dictators seized its concentration of power... though you could argue communism is different from socialism
I believe communism to be socialisms corporatism if you will... HIV ---> AIDS
There were cases of that in which deformed revolutions resulted in state capitalism.