Black/Minority Women Goin' Against White Feminists On Twitter :lupe:

Deluuxe

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Black males have no system of oppression in place over black females, case closed. The random "sexist" rhetoric these idiots spew can be spewed right back at black woman. These idiots who cry sexism basically want the society to become this grey, androgenius type of place where a man nor woman has any definition, because that suites them (the real ppl behind feminism are lesbians, androgyny is PERFECT for them because everything lacks a character and male/female sexuality, therefore THEY THEMSELVES now gain character for there own lack of DEFINED character/sexuality before (a woman pretending to be a man), the straight ones go along with it under a guise of benefits/power they will receive over males, or simply their own hate for black men (another reason why alot of these black feminist have white male partners)). That is the current reason for BLACK FEMINISM. Everytime you ask one of these black feminist to EXPLAIN what they mean, they never can... white woman DO have a system oppressing them, thats why their agendas are CLEARLY DEFINED. Ex. They want equal pay, therefore they challenge the white male power structure for it. I heard a black woman complain that black men get paid more than them refer to that as #blackpowerisforblackmen, like its black males that are employing them, and I DO NOT see black feminist challenging the white male power structure. So you can now exit with your nonsense :camby:
 

MeachTheMonster

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Read what I linked, and read my previous posts. I already outlined how.
No you outlined how sexism exists. Not how that sexism equates to "black males maintaining privilege.

Of course not all sexism leads to benefits for men. I never said that. Secondly, what grants privilege is a power structure. In Black communities, the vast majority of powerholders at the higher levels of the institutions are men. That's not something you can dispute. That's where the power structure comes from. It's a very simple point.
Just because black man are most likely heads of the church does not mean that black men are maintaing privilege.

If men are leading the church yet women have the most voting power in the church, then who's maintaining that leadership?

I already gave numerous examples. I can only keep referring you back to those and to the research, which contains even more examples.
You have examples of sexism. That's not what I asked for.

Yes, I did say that, and it's true. As for men and women having "different tendencies," you'll have to elaborate. Right now it sounds like you just pulled that out of your ass because there's no research or logic behind it. Two people with the same experience working the same job with the same title for the same hours should get paid the same. There are no "different tendencies" that can change that.
Without even going into any of the other differences, women have a tendency to get pregnant and leave their jobs. Should that warrant them less money?

And by your logic that wouldn't be a "privilege" for men right?

(Before I get called a misogynist I don't think women should get paid less, but according to @The Real logic it's logical due to different behavior)

Do you know what privilege is? Do you understand how I defined it? You can't just redefine it on your own whim and then claim that I'm not meeting its standard- that's called moving the goalposts. I already defined it earlier. Sexism is a general category, of which privilege for men, defined as distinct social advantages when all else is equal, is one of the results.

1.
a.
A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.
b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.
2. The principle of granting and maintaining a special right or immunity: a society based on privilege.

You have yet to explain how black men are actively maintaining this. You've show how they get it in some cases, but not how black men are maintaining it at the expense of black women.

Maybe, in some cases. You'd have to name some that involve actual female power, though. Black women very little enforcement power since they don't hold many prominent positions of power in the Black community, just like Black people in general do in the larger white society.
:mindblown: what black male power exist outside of the church and politics which women overwhelmingly are more involved in?

If you need power to maintain privilege then black men are at the bottom of the totem pole.

The research is proof of Black men enforcing inequality with respect to women in Black communities. That's what maintains privilege.
The research shows that sexism exists. You are tying to say that sexism equates to black men "maintaining privilege" yet you have yet to prove it.
 

The Real

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No you outlined how sexism exists. Not how that sexism equates to "black males maintaining privilege.
You have examples of sexism. That's not what I asked for.
The research shows that sexism exists. You are tying to say that sexism equates to black men "maintaining privilege" yet you have yet to prove it.

All the examples of Black men being sexist are examples of how privilege is enforced. Again, you seem to be avoiding that privilege is enforced through sexist behavior by the group with more power.

Just because black man are most likely heads of the church does not mean that black men are maintaing privilege.

If men are leading the church yet women have the most voting power in the church, then who's maintaining that leadership?

It's dishonest of you to focus on church when I said Black institutions in general- community organizations, nonprofits, businesses, political positions, etc. Regardless, men are maintaining that church leadership, with women supporting them through internalized consent.

There's voting in churches now? I didn't realize they were democracies. :what:
Without even going into any of the other differences, women have a tendency to get pregnant and leave their jobs. Should that warrant them less money?

And by your logic that wouldn't be a "privilege" for men right?

Before I get called a misogynist I don't think women should get paid less, but according to @The Real logic it's logical due to different behavior)

I think men and women should both get paid pregnancy/childbirth leave, since either one can take care of a newborn child. That's how it's done in many other countries. That alone doesn't warrant any difference in pay. But are you seriously comparing this to the argument that men committing more crime means that women not being profiled is a privilege? They have nothing in common. Pregnancy is not analogous to crime or gun possession.

A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.
b. Such an advantage, immunity, or right held as a prerogative of status or rank, and exercised to the exclusion or detriment of others.
2. The principle of granting and maintaining a special right or immunity: a society based on privilege.

You have yet to explain how black men are actively maintaining this. You've show how they get it in some cases, but not how black men are maintaining it at the expense of black women.

I show how they "get it" but not how they "maintain it?" There's no difference between the two. Every instance of privilege is an instance of the maintenance of privilege. Every time a Black man accepts privilege, they're maintaining it, even in cases when it was a white person who enabled it.
:mindblown: what black male power exist outside of the church and politics which women overwhelmingly are more involved in?

If you need power to maintain privilege then black men are at the bottom of the totem pole.

There are no Black institutions in which women are overwhelmingly in positions of power. That may change, due to graduations rates currently being heavily imbalanced towards women, but it hasn't yet. As for Black men being at the bottom of the totem pole, that's only true relative to men and some women of other races, not to Black women, since they get paid more than Black women and occupy more positions of power than Black women.
 

filial_piety

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Black men have aboslutely no control over the means of production in this society, therefore black women are as responsible as black men for the problems within the black community, maybe even more so in a society that has granted women a greater means of equality and freedom than anywhere else in the world.

However, black booty worshipping nikkaz have to learn the hard way, but they are learning nonetheless. Now some of you are reading between the lines...black feminists aren't against any type of patrarchy--they are against YOU as blackmen. Essentially their purpose is to blame YOU because you aren't white men with all the priveleges afforded to them.
 

The Real

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@The Real What the hell do you really want? What is your motive?

What do you mean? I want the same thing Huey wanted- a society where power relations are more egalitarian and people aren't mistreated or discriminated against based on things like race or sex. In order for Black people to progress, both external and internal issues have to be addressed. I'm in the same game as the best of the Civil Rights movement and Black Power ideology, which has always included the issue of gender equality between Black men and women.
 

MeachTheMonster

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All the examples of Black men being sexist are examples of how privilege is enforced. Again, you seem to be avoiding that privilege is enforced through sexist behavior by the group with more power.
No. You already admited that sexism sometimes results in a detriment for men. So are those instances of women enforcing their sexist power?

It's dishonest of you to focus on church when I said Black institutions in general- community organizations, nonprofits, businesses, political positions, etc. Regardless, men are maintaining that church leadership, with women supporting them through internalized consent.
No it's not dishonest. That's the only place you can really say black men hold power over black women is church and politics. And black women hold the most influence in both of those. So if there's anyone MAINTAINING the male power structure, it's those women. If they wanted to they could take over

There's voting in churches now? I didn't realize they were democracies. :what:
If women say "I'm not coming unless there are more women leaders" they'd have no choice but to add more women leaders. As being the majority in the church women hold the power. If you want to know why they allow the inequality to exist you should ask them. Same goes for politics. Women hold the most voting power, they can vote for who they want.


I think men and women should both get paid pregnancy/childbirth leave, since either one can take care of a newborn child. That's how it's done in many other countries. That alone doesn't warrant any difference in pay. But are you seriously comparing this to the argument that men committing more crime means that women not being profiled is a privilege? They have nothing in common. Pregnancy is not analogous to crime or gun possession.
It's all behavior that is related to the sex of the person. In one instance you say behavior warrants different treatment. In the other you say it doesn't.

I think you're the one that's sexist:ufdup:

I show how they "get it" but not how they "maintain it?" There's no difference between the two. Every instance of privilege is an instance of the maintenance of privilege. Every time a Black man accepts privilege, they're maintaining it, even in cases when it was a white person who enabled it.
Yes there is a difference between the two. Just above you said black women need to be in power in order to enforce privilege. But now you say black men can enforce it even if they are not in power.

Sounds like your the one that's sexist:ufdup:

There are no Black institutions in which women are overwhelmingly in positions of power. That may change, due to graduations rates currently being heavily imbalanced towards women, but it hasn't yet. As for Black men being at the bottom of the totem pole, that's only true relative to men and some women of other races, not to Black women, since they get paid more than Black women and occupy more positions of power than Black women.
In both church and politics women hold the most voting power. They can change the power structure at will, yet they keep it the way it is. If anyone is maintaing that power it is women.

And I don't wont to get into a "who's oppressed more" fight but black women have advantages over black men in educational, financial, criminal, and hiring circumstances. But I don't hear anyone claiming that black women are oppressing black men. Why?
 
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The Real

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No. You already admited that sexism sometimes results in a detriment for men. So are those instances of women enforcing their sexist power?

They would be, if women had large-scale institutional power. Until then, it's analogous to "reverse racism." Men still control most of it, including the stuff that hurts us.

No it's not dishonest. That's the only place you can really say black men hold power over black women is church and politics. And black women hold the most influence in both of those. So if there's anyone MAINTAING the male power structure, it's those women. If they wanted to they could take over

No. Any institution in which Black men dominate the leadership is an institution in which Black men hold power over Black women. That applies to pretty much every institution in the Black community. The idea that someone can hold "influence" without power is laughable. Black men don't have as much influence as white men in the NBA, despite being the majority of the players.

If women say "I'm not coming unless there are more women leaders" they'd have no choice but to add more women leaders. As being the majority in the church women hold the power. If you want to know why they allow the inequality to exist you should ask them. Same goes for politics. Women hold the most voting power, they can vote for who they want.

Maybe that's the case. Being the majority doesn't mean you have the most power. White people have the most power in NYC, even though it's a majority non-white city. Jews have more power than Arabs in Israel/Palestine and the surrounding area, even though Arabs far outnumber them. The wealthy have always been a minority, and yet always have more power than the poor who outnumber them everywhere. Etc.

It's all behavior that is related to the sex of the person. In one instance you say behavior warrants different treatment. In the other you say it doesn't.

I think you're the one that's sexist:ufdup:

Not all behavior is the same. If you can find behavior that is more analogous to crime and gun possession, and violation that is similar to profiling, then you'll have an argument. Until then, you're reaching extra hard.

Yes there is a difference between the two. Just above you said black women need to be in power in order to enforce privilege. But now you say black men can enforce it even if they are not in power.

Sounds like your the one that's sexist:ufdup:

I never said that. I said when Black men accept privilege, they're maintaining it. That doesn't mean they have no power- it means they do have power, even if it's not as much as the power of white men or in many cases, white women.

In both church and politics women hold the most voting power. They can change the power structure at will, yet they keep it the way it is. If anyone is maintaing that power it is women.

And I don't wont to get into a "who's oppressed more" fight but black women have advantages over black men in educational, financial, criminal, and hiring circumstances. But I don't hear anyone claiming that black women are oppressing black men. Why?

Can you prove that Black women have "advantages" over men in finance or in hiring? Why is it that Black women get paid less than men with the same degrees, if they have an educational advantage? Again, your argument can only be validated if women have institutional power.
 

#1 pick

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What do you mean? I want the same thing Huey wanted- a society where power relations are more egalitarian and people aren't mistreated or discriminated against based on things like race or sex. In order for Black people to progress, both external and internal issues have to be addressed. I'm in the same game as the best of the Civil Rights movement and Black Power ideology, which has always included the issue of gender equality between Black men and women.
You saying a lot but specifying nothing. What is your motive? In pain English words? Don't try to be Cornell West or Jesse Jackson 2.0 trying to use high diction but saying absolutely nothing in the process. Just get to the point. Why is your message about this so called privilege relevant to your goals?
 

The Real

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You saying a lot but specifying nothing. What is your motive? In pain English words? Don't try to be Cornell West or Jesse Jackson 2.0 trying to use high diction but saying absolutely nothing in the process. Just get to the point. Why is your message about this so called privilege relevant to your goals?



I said it simply. There was no jargon in my post, unless things like "mistreatment," "discrimination," "power relations," etc, are "high diction." The meaning is plain. I'm for people not being treated unfairly in social and political situations because of their race or sex.
 

MeachTheMonster

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They would be, if women had large-scale institutional power. Until then, it's analogous to "reverse racism." Men still control most of it, including the stuff that hurts us.
White men control it. They are the ones "maintaining the power"

No. Any institution in which Black men dominate the leadership is an institution in which Black men hold power over Black women. That applies to pretty much every institution in the Black community. The idea that someone can hold "influence" without power is laughable. Black men don't have as much influence as white men in the NBA, despite being the majority of the players.
Holding the power is not the same as maintaining it. Maintaining implies that black men are actively oppressing women. As for your nba example black men do hold a lot of the power, ask Lebron.

Maybe that's the case. Being the majority doesn't mean you have the most power. White people have the most power in NYC, even though it's a majority non-white city. Jews have more power than Arabs in Israel/Palestine and the surrounding area, even though Arabs far outnumber them. The wealthy have always been a minority, and yet always have more power than the poor who outnumber them everywhere. Etc.
In all of those instances the majority could make a change if they banded together and made it happen. One problem is the minority has purposely put up and maintained barriers to prevent an uprising. You can't say the same holds true for black men in the church/politics.

Not all behavior is the same. If you can find behavior that is more analogous to crime and gun possession, and violation that is similar to profiling, then you'll have an argument. Until then, you're reaching extra hard.
I'm not reaching for anything. Behavior is behavior. If behavior warrants differing treatment then that should hold true accross the board, not just when it supports your position.

I never said that. I said when Black men accept privilege, they're maintaining it. That doesn't mean they have no power- it means they do have power, even if it's not as much as the power of white men or in many cases, white women.
So when black women accept better loans, education, and less stringent sentancing are they maintaing their power over black men?

Can you prove that Black women have "advantages" over men in finance or in hiring? Why is it that Black women get paid less than men with the same degrees, if they have an educational advantage? Again, your argument can only be validated if women have institutional power.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/03/elementary-school-bias-boys_n_2404898.html

http://newsone.com/2672818/black-women-have-better-chances-of-getting-loans-study-says/

http://newsone.com/709305/generation-y-black-women-outearning-black-men/

And black men don't have any institutional power over black women's salaries, yet you keep insisting that the pay disparity is a privilege being maintained by black men. You are being very hypocritical here.
 
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