BJJ vs Boxing, which one for self-defense

[TheDarceKnight]

Hey you know Ryan? You at 50/50?

Ryan was a friend and used to train me when he was purple at TLI

Yeah man, I know Ryan. That's crazy! I never thought anyone here would know of him. He just married Jen this past weekend. I don't know if they were dating when you knew him, but I thought they went back to TLI. Same with Seph Smith, right?

I'm not at 50/50. I would be if I was in D.C. I'm in NC right now. When I first started getting serious about the sport, Ryan had just gotten purple I'd say? Lloyd Irvin was releasing the Grappling Blueprint, The BJJ Experiment, and he was marketing Ryan pretty heavy. JT wasn't at TLI yet, I don't think. Marcelo Garcia was sort of my hero in the sport, but I also really was into some of the Americans on the scene like Jeff Glover, Bill Cooper, Mike Fowler (this was right when he had his run at ADCC and beat Renzo and Saulo), and Ryan Hall. In fact I straight up mimicked Glover, Cooper, and Hall's games for a while (see username).

Something about Ryan's teaching style clicked right away, and he had those videos of his matches where he'd explain them on voice over. I visit 50/50 when I can, which is usually 2-3 times a year. I always get his DVds every year. He's always been really good to me, and has thrown me some free privates, t shirts, rash guards, etc, every time I go up. He always makes sure to take time out to roll with me during open mats and to give me pointers after, and he's always been a big help over the years. I haven't been up there since June, but I want to go again soon.

Are you still at TLI? (Tim Spriggs is such a beast.) DC Metro area? Crazy 88? Yamasaki? BETA? 50/50?

Sent you a PM also.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

If you want jiujitsu for the street focus on standing passes and knée on belly attacks.

Okay so not to derail things, but why do we not see more of this in MMA? I feel like leg drag passing would work very well in modern MMA. I mean yes, you have to be careful of upkicks, but toreando passing, x passing, and leg drag passing, that whole game seems like it it very underutilized, and the same goes for knee on belly. Great position to drop bombs from, and a great way to set up armbars, kimuras, darces, guillotines, side chokes, north south chokes, back attacks, the list goes on.

I'm really ready for the era of the elite wrestler that really embraces and mixes in modern guard passing, back taking, and submissions from the top either after or during the pass. There are a few people that are very good at it, like Chris Weidman for example, and Jon Jones was showing signs of it for a while, but I really want to see more fighters doing this.

 

[Mowgli]

Okay so not to derail things, but why do we not see more of this in MMA? I feel like leg drag passing would work very well in modern MMA. I mean yes, you have to be careful of upkicks, but toreando passing, x passing, and leg drag passing, that whole game seems like it it very underutilized, and the same goes for knee on belly. Great position to drop bombs from, and a great way to set up armbars, kimuras, darces, guillotines, side chokes, north south chokes, back attacks, the list goes on.

I'm really ready for the era of the elite wrestler that really embraces and mixes in modern guard passing, back taking, and submissions from the top either after or during the pass. There are a few people that are very good at it, like Chris Weidman for example, and Jon Jones was showing signs of it for a while, but I really want to see more fighters doing this.

You always revert back to your training and what you do the most. Knee on bElly is hard to hold when your opponent is barely clothed and sweating. Standing passes people usually stand tall bold a leg and just try to drop a hay maker to the ground. If soccer kicks and stomoing down were legal I think standing passes would be more viable

 

[WhodatWhoadi]

Both

 

[Blackking]

will boxing make you great at cardio

yeah..

ive done 5 forms of marital arts and there is no training like boxing training.



Plus... i'm teaching my sons this shyt first.

I taught boxing to my little brother at age 8 ish.. he got into a fight at school.... It went to the ground... but he got up and knock the dude down.. and knocked his friend down too....



So I would say boxing to start off. Because most people can't fight.

 

[Blackking]

My son is going to be a completely different monster from me bruh. I learned heavy grappling and very low level striking. Enough for me to be able to get enough respect to use grappling. My son starting at age 3 will be grappling until he leaves my house. At age 6 i will be bringing him to a boxing gym in Leimert Park to learn how to box for real. I will have him do this until at least 9th grade, after which he will be placed in a muay thai class throughout high school to finalize his toughness by conditioning him to take pain and to learn kicking. After he leaves my house he should have the discipline to keep himself in good health and be free to be himself considering peer pressure will be largely negated due to the fact that he will be the alpha dog.

For someone getting into the martial arts game late, it really depends on how much time you want to dedicate to your art. Before i had a baby, i was grappling at least 8 hours a week. If you have the dedication, you can do either art and perform well against any of these average Bums in the street. If you dont have a lot of time i would choose BJJ. It can get you online to defend yourself with its basic concepts and principles of defense, dominant and inferior positions.

Boxing, is an art you have to take serious. You cant just learn some concepts and perform well. You have to do drills, be in good shape, often times before you get in a ring to spar.

With BJJ you are sparring out the gate alot of times.

With bjj, again, understanding the basic concepts and doing a few hours a week of drills can put you in a good position to defend yourself against threats that may currently intimidate you.

Bjj is about achieving dominant position in a fight, by mounting, taking their back, taking side control, or fighting off your back if you have to. This is a worst case scenario. For a pure striker, this is death.

If you go to a legit Brazillian Jiujitsu spot that has an mma program you can learn both. THe striking wont be on the level of a boxer, but with practice you'll have a formidable total package of skills.


in summary

Alot of time - either art
Not a lot of time - Brazillian Jiujitsu

for me..... BJJ takes hours to perfect.

There isn't one thing you can learn in a month that will make you viable in all fights.

Sure most fight may end up on the ground or against the wall or something............ but natural instincts from rough housing as a kid can fill in the gaps if you



simply learn to punch the correct way... and gain just a few weeks of confidence in your punching technique.

if a nikka comes out swinging and you only have BJJ - what are you to do - as a 19 year old boy? ?

 

[Mowgli]

for me..... BJJ takes hours to perfect.

There isn't one thing you can learn in a month that will make you viable in all fights.

Sure most fight may end up on the ground or against the wall or something............ but natural instincts from rough housing as a kid can fill in the gaps if you



simply learn to punch the correct way... and gain just a few weeks of confidence in your punching technique.

if a nikka comes out swinging and you only have BJJ - what are you to do - as a 19 year old boy? ?

If youre flabby trying to learn bjj you may have to get that ass beat. If you are already in reasonably good shape and now take BJJ you will win. If the guy who comes out swinging is just a swinger, and you are flabby, the odds are more in your favor then if you learned how to throw a punch. 90 days 3-8 hours a week of bjj is enough to deal with most bums on the street. Id reccomend going to a legit academy with a legit black belt, with legit lineage and if possible with legit championships or at least someone who learned from a champ. Alot of people just dont know how tough they really are until the situation presents itself. If you're p*ssy by default and have no heart, you may need more training to develop these instincts.

 

[Blackking]

If youre flabby trying to learn bjj you may have to get that ass beat. If you are already in reasonably good shape and now take BJJ you will win. If the guy who comes out swinging is just a swinger, and you are flabby, the odds are more in your favor then if you learned how to throw a punch. 90 days 3-8 hours a week of bjj is enough to deal with most bums on the street. Id reccomend going to a legit academy with a legit black belt, with legit lineage and if possible with legit championships or at least someone who learned from a champ. Alot of people just dont know how tough they really are until the situation presents itself. If you're p*ssy by default and have no heart, you may need more training to develop these instincts.

The question wasn't asked ........ if you have years of conditioning in MA and years in boxing and other martial arts which would you chose - Even I would say BJJ.



If a man is just average size, and average conditioning............ he will need to work on boxing first. then start on the ground. if he just want to learn some shyt for self defense. boxing and then practice his kicking toward penis areas. - for self defense.

 

[Mowgli]

The question wasn't asked ........ if you have years of conditioning in MA and years in boxing and other martial arts which would you chose - Even I would say BJJ.



If a man is just average size, and average conditioning............ he will need to work on boxing first. then start on the ground. if he just want to learn some shyt for self defense. boxing and then practice his kicking toward penis areas. - for self defense.

When i started jiujitsu i was brolic. Alot of guys i see begin training, are not. The guys that come in with past experience in wrestling, or weightlifting, that remain dedicated, become the best students. I mean, the alphas are always going to be the alphas. Yes it does take a guy whos coming in straight Larry holmes status to get online but if hes training 8 hours a week (4 classes Open mat and a lesson) he is going to get good quick and be able to deal with the average clown in the street alot easier then he himself may believe. Now if you're talking about dealing with out 265 lb bouncers in a club, you're not being realistic no matter what art they're taking. No art is going to really prepare you to take on dark hearted alphas in a short amount of time but jiujitsu will help you survive a fight a lot better in 90 days then 90 days of boxing will if you're starting from a state of pure flab.

I cant explain to you how someone who doesnt train feels like a woman to me on the ground, no matter theyre size, after so many years and so much mat time. And im talking police, army rangers, marines, boxers, state wrestling champions, etc. No kinda base, no kinda balance. Just a lump of clay.

 

[TNC]

Yeah man, I know Ryan. That's crazy! I never thought anyone here would know of him. He just married Jen this past weekend. I don't know if they were dating when you knew him, but I thought they went back to TLI. Same with Seph Smith, right?

I'm not at 50/50. I would be if I was in D.C. I'm in NC right now. When I first started getting serious about the sport, Ryan had just gotten purple I'd say? Lloyd Irvin was releasing the Grappling Blueprint, The BJJ Experiment, and he was marketing Ryan pretty heavy. JT wasn't at TLI yet, I don't think. Marcelo Garcia was sort of my hero in the sport, but I also really was into some of the Americans on the scene like Jeff Glover, Bill Cooper, Mike Fowler (this was right when he had his run at ADCC and beat Renzo and Saulo), and Ryan Hall. In fact I straight up mimicked Glover, Cooper, and Hall's games for a while (see username).

Something about Ryan's teaching style clicked right away, and he had those videos of his matches where he'd explain them on voice over. I visit 50/50 when I can, which is usually 2-3 times a year. I always get his DVds every year. He's always been really good to me, and has thrown me some free privates, t shirts, rash guards, etc, every time I go up. He always makes sure to take time out to roll with me during open mats and to give me pointers after, and he's always been a big help over the years. I haven't been up there since June, but I want to go again soon.

Are you still at TLI? (Tim Spriggs is such a beast.) DC Metro area? Crazy 88? Yamasaki? BETA? 50/50?

Sent you a PM also.

I'm Team Lloyd Irvin.... in spirit anyway.

I used to live in the DMV, I run a company and constant travel for it and recently moved away from there but I still am down for my team and everyone it in. I started with TLI back in like.... 2008 I think, but Ryan was a purple belt there at the time and that was before he left. I ain't no big name or nothing, I got into BJJ and Muay Thai because I like the art and have a strong wrestling base. Like, I still got a lot of love for Ryan and everyone that broke away from the team but I'm also a business man so I know how money can change people's priorities. Master Lloyd is a friend of mine but he also is about his business first and him and Ryan disagreed with how the money could/should be allocated on the videos so Ryan split from the team with Seph.

I still keep in contact with a lot of those guys, I talk to Mike Fowler on gchat almost monthly lol, DJ Jackson used to use my old DL to get into clubs but I think I have a different mentality than a lot of them when it comes to the martial arts game. I understand its a business first and everyone preaches loyalty which is very important but if you don't have the same goals as your team, there is going to be some conflict at some point down the road. Regardless I still think Team Lloyd Irvin is the best school I've ever trained at, although I'm completely biased, but I've been able to go to a lot of major schools around the country like Serra/Longo and Xtreme Couture in Vegas.

 

[Mowgli]

Free

 

[OwenReese]

What happened to the white guy in the video who jumped on the drunk guy

 

[TheDarceKnight]

What happened to the white guy in the video who jumped on the drunk guy

You mean in this video? Nothing. Ryan hit him with the blast double and just held him down in the restaurant. Eventually the guy calmed down and the only reason Ryan grabbed him again and yanked him outside and put him to sleep with a rear naked choke is because the guy threatened Ryan's best friend, Seph, who had just had shoulder surgery. So when the guy moved towards Seph, Ryan grabbed him and yanked him outside and put him to sleep. Right after that, the cops showed up, and everything was cool. He didn't get in trouble or anything. Even the drunk guy didn't get in trouble.

 

[TNC]

You mean in this video? Nothing. Ryan hit him with the blast double and just held him down in the restaurant. Eventually the guy calmed down and the only reason Ryan grabbed him again and yanked him outside and put him to sleep with a rear naked choke is because the guy threatened Ryan's best friend, Seph, who had just had shoulder surgery. So when the guy moved towards Seph, Ryan grabbed him and yanked him outside and put him to sleep. Right after that, the cops showed up, and everything was cool. He didn't get in trouble or anything. Even the drunk guy didn't get in trouble.

It's funny, I almost got arrested (got cuffed but they let me go) for doing the same thing in a similar situation

 

[Don Mack]

If I were going to get into MMA I'd definitely learn BJJ but I couldn't get comfortable rolling around with other dudes, especially in ATL given how many people are on the down low.