Bitcoin is a Ponzi

[MeachTheMonster]

Most of the “new investors” in an individual stock are people or institutions who already have stock market exposure. The new investors in crypto are people who’ve never invested in crypto.

I mean, seems you kinda pulled this “fact” from your ass. But crypto is relatively “new” so obviously lots of people are new to it.

But same goes for the stock market. Last couple years we had a huge influx of new investors which in turn lead to huge bull market. Pretty much everything was surging. That “new” money has dried up and people are taking profits therefore the market has made a downturn.

 

[lib123]

I mean, seems you kinda pulled this “fact” from your ass. But crypto is relatively “new” so obviously lots of people are new to it.

But same goes for the stock market. Last couple years we had a huge influx of new investors which in turn lead to huge bull market. Pretty much everything was surging. That “new” money has dried up and people are taking profits therefore the market has made a downturn.

I didn’t pull anything from my ass. Yes, new investors helped push the stock market higher but the majority of new investment came from people who’ve already been invested in stocks for extended periods. Funny how none of you crypto folks respond to the valid points about how crypto is essentially a Ponzi detailed on page 1 of this thread.

 

[winb83]

No, this doesn’t even make sense.

Only way to make money in the stock market is for new investors to come in. If the same investors keep buying the same stock, they aren’t really making any money.

It’s when new investors pour in that “old” investors are able to make some profits.

When you buy a stock you're buying ownership in a company and either directly through share buybacks, dividends, or special dividends or indirectly through the company reinvesting into the company you get a share of their profits. People buy stocks because they want a share of those profits.

If I buy Apple stock they pay me a dividend which is a portion of their profits regardless of new buyers buying the stock or not. The capital appreciation of the stock over time is an added bonus. I can buy the stock and as long as the actual business performs will and they have great free cash flow they'll continue to pay that dividend.

When you buy crypto what the hell are you actually getting? A volatile digital currency that was said to be a hedge to the stock market but basically just mirrors it or even worse when the stock market goes down huge crypto preforms even worse.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

When you buy a stock you're buying ownership in a company and either directly through share buybacks, dividends, or special dividends or indirectly through the company reinvesting into the company you get a share of their profits. People buy stocks because they want a share of those profits.

If I buy Apple stock they pay me a dividend which is a portion of their profits regardless of new buyers buying the stock or not. The capital appreciation of the stock over time is an added bonus. I can buy the stock and as long as the actual business performs will and they have great free cash flow they'll continue to pay that dividend.

When you buy crypto what the hell are you actually getting? A volatile digital currency that was said to be a hedge to the stock market but basically just mirrors it or even worse when the stock market goes down huge crypto preforms even worse.

First off, most stocks don’t even pay a dividend. Most of the money made in the stock market is people taking profits off other peoples speculation that’s higher than their own.

But in crypto you are investing in the idea that this digital token will be a “currency” one day.

It’s all speculative, and i’m not even trying to defend or promote crypto. As i currently hold no crypto.

I just find it interesting how a lot of the narratives detractors aim at crypto hold true for the stock market as well.

It’s all fukkery and we are all just trying to fall on the right side of said fukkery.

 

[winb83]

I mean, seems you kinda pulled this “fact” from your ass. But crypto is relatively “new” so obviously lots of people are new to it.

But same goes for the stock market. Last couple years we had a huge influx of new investors which in turn lead to huge bull market. Pretty much everything was surging. That “new” money has dried up and people are taking profits therefore the market has made a downturn.

The overwhelming majority of the stock market isn't new investors it's owned by wall street hedge funds and banks. The wealthiest 10% of the population owns about 90% of all stocks. The direction the market takes is dictated by what these wealthy people decide to do with their money at the time not new investors running scared of an economic downturn.

The wealthiest 10% of Americans own a record 89% of all U.S. stocks

The top 1% gained over $6.5 trillion in corporate equities and mutual fund wealth during the pandemic, according to the latest data from the Federal Reserve.

www.cnbc.com

 

[The Observer]

Retail investors can contribute to market movements etc, algos (responsible for millions even billions) will react to orderflows and volume.

Don’t forget large hedgefunds also pay brokers for that retail orderflow information

So it all goes hand in hand. A hedgefund can buy or sell billions worth or stock but it requires buyers and sellers (mixture of retail and institutional) on the otherside to continure the momentum and direction.

 

[winb83]

First off, most stocks don’t even pay a dividend. Most of the money made in the stock market is people taking profits off other peoples speculation that’s higher than their own.

But in crypto you are investing in the idea that this digital token will be a “currency” one day.

It’s all speculative, and i’m not even trying to defend or promote crypto. As i currently hold no crypto.

I just find it interesting how a lot of the narratives detractors aim at crypto hold true for the stock market as well.

It’s all fukkery and we are all just trying to fall on the right side of said fukkery.

A company doesn't have to pay a dividend to distribute their profits to you. They can reinvest in the business and grow it causing their stock to rise as the business becomes more valuable. They can buy back shares reducing outstanding shares, increasing your ownership. When you dumb it down enough you can make them sound similar but when you pop the hood really they aren't.

What's under the hood of the stock market are companies and the distribution of their profits to shareholders or the speculation that in the future they will become massively profitable and distribute those profits to shareholders.

I guess my question is then what's under the hood of the crypto currency market driving it? From my perspective it looks like pure speculation of I buy this token or wherever and hopefully more people buy it after me and it goes up so I can sell it later. Again the stock market is I buy ownership of a company that entitles me to a share of it's profits. One of them has something that's clearly measurable driving it. The other doesn't seem to. There are literally people who buy and hold stocks just for the dividend income they generate from business profits and free cash flow.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I didn’t pull anything from my ass.

Where’d you get your numbers from to make that claim?

Yes, new investors helped push the stock market higher but the majority of new investment came from people who’ve already been invested in stocks for extended periods. Funny how none of you crypto folks respond to the valid points about how crypto is essentially a Ponzi detailed on page 1 of this thread.

Again. Stock market has been around for hundreds of years obviously it will have more long time investors. But again profits are very reliant on new money coming into the market. It’s why people are pushed into a 401k when they get a job.

And i’m not a “crypto” guy. Just an observer. I think the works “ponzi” scheme gets overused.

A lot of what happens in the stock market can fit that description. We just tell ourselves it’s not

 

[I Really Mean It]

Stock market is heavily manipulated. There isn’t even any true price discovery, with market makers given free license to front run shares and channel buying pressure through a dark pool. Once Robinhood was allowed to turn the buy button off, the curtain was drawn, the wizard revealed.

The idea that stocks are driven by speculation, or that true supply and demand determines the price, is a myth. Crypto is manipulated in some respects, but it’s much more of a purely speculative market, one in which the dynamics of supply and demand underlie the price of a token.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

A company doesn't have to pay a dividend to distribute their profits to you. They can reinvest in the business and grow it causing their stock to rise as the business becomes more valuable. They can buy back shares reducing outstanding shares, increasing your ownership. When you dumb it down enough you can make them sound similar but when you pop the hood really they aren't.

For long term investments, sure. But most profit is driven by other peoples speculation and willingness to purchase the shares at a higher price than what you bought them at.

What's under the hood of the stock market are companies and the distribution of their profits to shareholders or the speculation that in the future they will become massively profitable and distribute those profits to shareholders.

That’s the promise. That’s what’s sold to us. But as we see everyday the actual function in very different.

I guess my question is then what's under the hood of the crypto currency market driving it? From my perspective it looks like pure speculation of I buy this token or wherever and hopefully more people buy it after me and it goes up so I can sell it later. Again the stock market is I buy ownership of a company that entitles me to a share of it's profits. One of them has something that's clearly measurable driving it. The other doesn't seem to. There are literally people who buy and hold stocks just for the dividend income they generate from business profits and free cash flow.

It’s pure speculation. That’s it.

In that way, Crypto is more honest than the stock market. People know there are speculating on a future maybe.

Stock market sells you this dream of fair sharing of profits but just fukks you around on speculation and ponzi ass practices anyway.

 

[lib123]

Where’d you get your numbers from to make that claim?


Again. Stock market has been around for hundreds of years obviously it will have more long time investors. But again profits are very reliant on new money coming into the market. It’s why people are pushed into a 401k when they get a job.

And i’m not a “crypto” guy. Just an observer. I think the works “ponzi” scheme gets overused.

A lot of what happens in the stock market can fit that description. We just tell ourselves it’s not

There's been a 50% increase in Americans who are invested in crypto since COVID. There hasn't been nearly as big of an increase in Americans owning stocks over that timeframe. Again, page 1 details how crypto can be labelled a Ponzi while the stock market can't yet none of you address that. Oh well, it will become very clear in the coming weeks.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

The % spike in new crypto accounts with at least 1 BTC since COVID is larger than the spike in new stock brokerage accounts. Again, page 1 details how crypto can be labelled a Ponzi while the stock market can't but none of you address that. Oh well, it will become very clear in the coming weeks.

I find it funny you some of you try to stand on this crypto criticism and you say shyt like the bolded while the stock market burns around you.

It’s a cold game for everyone involved. We gone see what the stock market is made of in a couple weeks too

 

[lib123]

I find it funny you some of you try to stand on this crypto criticism and you say shyt like the bolded while the stock market burns around you.

It’s a cold game for everyone involved. We gone see what the stock market is made of in a couple weeks too

The stock market will still be viable regardless because it has tangible value.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

@lib123 Your 1-5 in the OP literally describes the stock market as well.

1. is obvious.
2. is obvious as well
3. and 4. What’s the “external source” of income for the stock market? People gotta buy stocks for the price to go up. that’s how it works.
5. Who’s making all the money in the stock market? It ain’t “responsible investors” It’s the market makers, the large firms, the insiders. I.E. The operators.

Stock market media got you and lots of retail brainwashed.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

The stock market will still be viable regardless because it has tangible value.

You think crypto gone die all together in a couple weeks?