Bitcoin is a Ponzi

[winb83]

For long term investments, sure. But most profit is driven by other peoples speculation and willingness to purchase the shares at a higher price than what you bought them at.


That’s the promise. That’s what’s sold to us. But as we see everyday the actual function in very different.

It’s pure speculation. That’s it.

In that way, Crypto is more honest than the stock market. People know there are speculating on a future maybe.

Stock market sells you this dream of fair sharing of profits but just fukks you around on speculation and ponzi ass practices anyway.

Your argument sounds like well if we zoom out from some images far enough they all look the same.

The stock market exist to sell the public ownership in a company that entitles shareholders to a portion of their profits. The strategies people create around that ownership don't change that purpose.

You're making a false equivalency and trying to dumb down public ownership of companies to make it equal to buying a volatile digital currency with nothing backing it that is frequently used in scams and to defraud it's buyers or used in illegal transactions. If I buy a share of Apple I got exactly that. It isn't a ponzi scheme and it isn't fukking with me.

If I buy a bitcoin what do I actually own? If last year I purchased 1 BTC when it was worth $64K could I then sell it now and get that 1 BTC or even half of 1 BTC back for it? Beyond that what does that 1 BTC entitle me to?

If last year I bought a share of Apple for $160 and today it's worth $130 yeah it's lost value but I still own that share of Apple. What people will pay for that share might have changed at the moment but I still own that share and as a shareholder it still entitles me to the same things it did when I bought it for $160.

All BTC is ultimately is what people will pay for it. A stock is ownership of a company. Now you might not value that ownership but that doesn't change what it is.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Your argument sounds like well if we zoom out from some images far enough they all look the same.

The stock market exist to sell the public ownership in a company that entitles shareholders to a portion of their profits. The strategies people create around that ownership don't change that purpose.

You're making a false equivalency and trying to dumb down public ownership of companies to make it equal to buying a volatile digital currency with nothing backing it that is frequently used in scams and to defraud it's buyers or used in illegal transactions. If I buy a share of Apple I got exactly that. It isn't a ponzi scheme and it isn't fukking with me.

If I buy a bitcoin what do I actually own? If last year I purchased 1 BTC when it was worth $64K could I then sell it now and get that 1 BTC or even half of 1 BTC back for it? Beyond that what does that 1 BTC entitle me to?

If last year I bought a share of Apple for $160 and today it's worth $130 yeah it's lost value but I still own that share of Apple. What people will pay for that share might have changed at the moment but I still own that share and as a shareholder it still entitles me to the same things it did when I bought it for $160.

All BTC is ultimately is what people will pay for it. A stock is ownership of a company. Now you might not value that ownership but that doesn't change what it is.

When 99% of the trades actually happening in the market are high frequency shyt extracting profits off other peoples speculation. The market ain’t functioning how you think it is.

Maybe in 1920 it was all about ownership of a piece of a company.

In 2022 it’s all fukkery.

I fully understand the idea of owning a portion of the company. But in a digital high frequency trading world that don’t mean much.

Functionally you are buying a piece of speculation and hoping other people speculate higher than you.

What are you gonna do with your piece of a company other than hope someone buys it from you at a higher price? Same you would do with bitcoin.

 

[the bossman]

There's been a 50% increase in Americans who are invested in crypto since COVID. There hasn't been nearly as big of an increase in Americans owning stocks over that timeframe. Again, page 1 details how crypto can be labelled a Ponzi while the stock market can't yet none of you address that. Oh well, it will become very clear in the coming weeks.

Do you even realize how silly this comparison sounds?

The stock market has been around what 200+ years?

Crypto 12+ years? It's a baby compared to other asset classes. Of course there would be a larger increase of new investors YoY compared to stocks

 

[the bossman]

Stock market is heavily manipulated. There isn’t even any true price discovery, with market makers given free license to front run shares and channel buying pressure through a dark pool. Once Robinhood was allowed to turn the buy button off, the curtain was drawn, the wizard revealed.

The idea that stocks are driven by speculation, or that true supply and demand determines the price, is a myth. Crypto is manipulated in some respects, but it’s much more of a purely speculative market, one in which the dynamics of supply and demand underlie the price of a token.

Damn near every market is manipulated to a degree. Even real estate

 

[the bossman]

You think crypto gone die all together in a couple weeks?

Dude has been saying this since last Summer. It's one of the reasons this thread originally got bushed

 

[the bossman]

If I buy a bitcoin what do I actually own? If last year I purchased 1 BTC when it was worth $64K could I then sell it now and get that 1 BTC or even half of 1 BTC back for it? Beyond that what does that 1 BTC entitle me to?

If last year I bought a share of Apple for $160 and today it's worth $130 yeah it's lost value but I still own that share of Apple. What people will pay for that share might have changed at the moment but I still own that share and as a shareholder it still entitles me to the same things it did when I bought it for $160.

Re-read what you just said. If you buy a share of Apple it is still a share even though it went down in value. It is literally no different from BTC. If you buy 1 BTC you still have 1 BTC even if the value has gone down in the short term like the Apple share. It is not that complicated

 

[winb83]

When 99% of the trades actually happening in the market are high frequency shyt extracting profits off other peoples speculation. The market ain’t functioning how you think it is.

Maybe in 1920 it was all about ownership of a piece of a company.

In 2022 it’s all fukkery.

I fully understand the idea of owning a portion of the company. But in a digital high frequency trading world that don’t mean much.

Functionally you are buying a piece of speculation and hoping other people speculate higher than you.

What are you gonna do with your piece of a company other than hope someone buys it from you at a higher price? Same you would do with bitcoin.

None of this changes the fact that the stock market exist to sell the public ownership of a company.

You ask what I can do with a piece of a company other than hope someone else buys it for a higher price? My answer is I can buy a share of a company with no intention of ever selling it and collect the dividend for the rest of my life as long as it's paid. I can leave it to my heirs and they can collect the dividend.

Your attitude towards stocks seems to mirror what bitcoin and crypto currency in general actually are it but that's just your view. Other people buy them for other reasons.

All bitcoin is boils down to what someone else will pay for it. Beyond that it has no value and does nothing. A stock is more than what someone else will pay for it. I keep saying it but a stock is ownership in a company that entitles the shareholder a portion of said company's profits. The share price doesn't change that.

 

[lib123]

Do you even realize how silly this comparison sounds?

The stock market has been around what 200+ years?

Crypto 12+ years? It's a baby compared to other asset classes. Of course there would be a larger increase of new investors YoY compared to stocks

Lol of course you re-appear while crypto is making a bear market rally. I was responding to another poster who was equating the impact of new investors on the stock market's Covid rally with crypto's rally.

 

[lib123]

You think crypto gone die all together in a couple weeks?

It will be less viable than the stock market.

 

[winb83]

Re-read what you just said. If you buy a share of Apple it is still a share even though it went down in value. It is literally no different from BTC. If you buy 1 BTC you still have 1 BTC even if the value has gone down in the short term like the Apple share. It is not that complicated

If I own a million shares of Apple the share price can be $1 and it's still an income generating asset paying close to $1 million dollars a year in dividend income as long as the company pays that dividend. It's literally completely different than bitcoin. It again for the umpthteenth time is a piece of ownership of a company that entitles me as a shareholder to a portion of that company's profits. A stock is not just a number on a screen. Bitcoin is effectively just a number on a screen and it's only real value is what it can be converted to in another currency. A stock can have more value than just that. Not everybody buys a stock with the hope of selling it later.

Just because that's all you view a stock as being worth doesn't mean that's all it is. There are people who buy stocks and hold them with no intention of ever selling them just to collect the income they generate on a quarterly basis. There are people who live off that income alone. Almost nobody buys bitcoin with the intention of holding it forever because unless their hope is leaving it to an heir and having it appreciate doing so does nothing.

People like this guy exist

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXtrYuGksGkkyls50lPWvYQ

Every stock he buys he never has any intention of ever selling. He wants to generate an income and leave the portfolio to his kids and have them collect that income.

 

[419scam]

ngl btc pumpin is a vibe fr fr

 

[The Observer]

When you think about….

We’re literally paying $20-60k for some
lines of coding that we exchange back to dollars in the hope someone else bought it at a higher price than us.

Do mass buyers actually care about using it as currency if ultimately its value is only determined by how many dollars you can get in return for it, to then use those dollars to purchase your normal physical goods, rent, food etc.

If crypto was the currency of the future, its value shouldn’t be determined solely by its exchange rate against the dollar.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

If I own a million shares of Apple the share price can be $1 and it's still an income generating asset paying close to $1 million dollars a year in dividend income as long as the company pays that dividend. It's literally completely different than bitcoin. It again for the umpthteenth time is a piece of ownership of a company that entitles me as a shareholder to a portion of that company's profits. A stock is not just a number on a screen. Bitcoin is effectively just a number on a screen and it's only real value is what it can be converted to in another currency. A stock can have more value than just that. Not everybody buys a stock with the hope of selling it later.

Just because that's all you view a stock as being worth doesn't mean that's all it is. There are people who buy stocks and hold them with no intention of ever selling them just to collect the income they generate on a quarterly basis. There are people who live off that income alone. Almost nobody buys bitcoin with the intention of holding it forever because unless their hope is leaving it to an heir and having it appreciate doing so does nothing.

People like this guy exist

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXtrYuGksGkkyls50lPWvYQ

Every stock he buys he never has any intention of ever selling. He wants to generate an income and leave the portfolio to his kids and have them collect that income.

That’s one strategy and not a very common one.

The rest of the market is using the liquidity provided by dudes like him, to speculate and scrape profits.

When 99% of market participants/trades are not rolling with this strategy, then you have to admit the market function is not driven by this strategy.

 

[the bossman]

If I own a million shares of Apple the share price can be $1 and it's still an income generating asset paying close to $1 million dollars a year in dividend income as long as the company pays that dividend. It's literally completely different than bitcoin. It again for the umpthteenth time is a piece of ownership of a company that entitles me as a shareholder to a portion of that company's profits. A stock is not just a number on a screen. Bitcoin is effectively just a number on a screen and it's only real value is what it can be converted to in another currency. A stock can have more value than just that. Not everybody buys a stock with the hope of selling it later.

Just because that's all you view a stock as being worth doesn't mean that's all it is. There are people who buy stocks and hold them with no intention of ever selling them just to collect the income they generate on a quarterly basis. There are people who live off that income alone. Almost nobody buys bitcoin with the intention of holding it forever because unless their hope is leaving it to an heir and having it appreciate doing so does nothing.

People like this guy exist

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXtrYuGksGkkyls50lPWvYQ

Every stock he buys he never has any intention of ever selling. He wants to generate an income and leave the portfolio to his kids and have them collect that income.

OK so you've just described dividend stocks and we know that not all stocks pay dividends. Like Google and Amazon.

Same way you can have passive income with some stocks, you can also get passive income with some crypto via staking. Many people are doing this for ethereum right now.

 

[the bossman]

It will be less viable than the stock market.

what's this? You've gone from btc going to zero to now simply less viable than the stock market?

So you're beginning to understand that btc & crypto are most likely here to stay?