Better Long-Term Heel Champ: CM Punk or JBL?

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Punk's SES run was nothing special either. He just cut long, boring promos and after Hardy left he never had a legitimate target. Hardy's popularity and real life drug abuse made CM Punk as far as the WWE is concerned. Nothing between then and the first pipe bomb is memorable, or if it is for the wrong reason (New Nexus).

In fact after the Cena feud and starting with the Kevin Nah shyt Punk has had a lackluster year. He was a fighting champ and put on good matches but every feud was blah. Del Rio, Jericho, Bryan, whoever before the turn...Cena I think....he's a good hand but nothing he does stands out. I guess that's why he relies on shoot comments...something you smarks would get on Nash and etc. about.

JBL also used to put his opponents over as world beaters on the mic. It highlighted their talents while giving him heat for saying he was better even though he was a coward. That's a good heel. Now everyone buries each other for laughs. Most heels just wanna be cool and make slick remarks. It's boring. That's why Show and Mark Henry work, they do/did shyt that you really couldn't get behind.


You might prefer Punk as a character or wrestler but JBL got this heel shyt by a country mile.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

JBL also used to put his opponents over as world beaters on the mic. It highlighted their talents while giving him heat for saying he was better even though he was a coward. That's a good heel. Now everyone buries each other for laughs. Most heels just wanna be cool and make slick remarks. It's boring. That's why Show and Mark Henry work, they do/did shyt that you really couldn't get behind.


You might prefer Punk as a character or wrestler but JBL got this heel shyt by a country mile.

Well said.

 

[StatUS]

Punk's SES run was nothing special either. He just cut long, boring promos and after Hardy left he never had a legitimate target. Hardy's popularity and real life drug abuse made CM Punk as far as the WWE is concerned. Nothing between then and the first pipe bomb is memorable, or if it is for the wrong reason (New Nexus).

In fact after the Cena feud and starting with the Kevin Nah shyt Punk has had a lackluster year. He was a fighting champ and put on good matches but every feud was blah. Del Rio, Jericho, Bryan, whoever before the turn...Cena I think....he's a good hand but nothing he does stands out. I guess that's why he relies on shoot comments...something you smarks would get on Nash and etc. about.

JBL also used to put his opponents over as world beaters on the mic. It highlighted their talents while giving him heat for saying he was better even though he was a coward. That's a good heel. Now everyone buries each other for laughs. Most heels just wanna be cool and make slick remarks. It's boring. That's why Show and Mark Henry work, they do/did shyt that you really couldn't get behind.


You might prefer Punk as a character or wrestler but JBL got this heel shyt by a country mile.

But at the end of the day JBL's run was some of the most boring TV ever. It's just funny how all the sudden it's been reclaimed as good

 

[CJ]

Punk's SES run was nothing special either. He just cut long, boring promos and after Hardy left he never had a legitimate target. Hardy's popularity and real life drug abuse made CM Punk as far as the WWE is concerned. Nothing between then and the first pipe bomb is memorable, or if it is for the wrong reason (New Nexus).

In fact after the Cena feud and starting with the Kevin Nah shyt Punk has had a lackluster year. He was a fighting champ and put on good matches but every feud was blah. Del Rio, Jericho, Bryan, whoever before the turn...Cena I think....he's a good hand but nothing he does stands out. I guess that's why he relies on shoot comments...something you smarks would get on Nash and etc. about.

JBL also used to put his opponents over as world beaters on the mic. It highlighted their talents while giving him heat for saying he was better even though he was a coward. That's a good heel. Now everyone buries each other for laughs. Most heels just wanna be cool and make slick remarks. It's boring. That's why Show and Mark Henry work, they do/did shyt that you really couldn't get behind.


You might prefer Punk as a character or wrestler but JBL got this heel shyt by a country mile.

100% co-sign. I hate how most memorable promos nowadays are deemed such because of the shoot aspect within it (excluding Punk's summer 2011 pipe bomb.)

I much prefer in character/kayfabe promos and attacks where genuine heat is achieved by going at the opponent as a character (not real life persona) or at the crowd/city themselves.

Don't mind the odd shoot shyt but when it's the initial catalyst of the heel, it gets tiring. You see this alot with the current crop. I always use that Elimination Chamber debate from last year as my example. It was just shoot upon shoot to bury each other.

Unfortunately I was out of wrestling during SES Punk and JBL's heel reigns but from what I caught up on JBL really had that heel shyt down to a T. Surprised he escaped some of those cities unscathed. I'd give him the nod as the better heel but as far as the reign itself I don't know since I didn't get to see all their matches during those times. Gonna have to take a look when I get the chance.

 

[StatUS]

double

 

[StatUS]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vatKo60xHc"]SmackDown CM Punk confronts Rey Mysterio while he's with his family - YouTube[/ame]

JBL was never this good.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

But at the end of the day JBL's run was some of the most boring TV ever. It's just funny how all the sudden it's been reclaimed as good

That's your opinion though, and it's irrelevant to the discussion. The topic is about who's a better heel.

And this isn't nostalgia talking, it's just that to many smarks it's steal real to them, damnit and it took awhile to separate JBL's character from the dirtsheet reports of his backstage shenanigans.

 

[Nintendough]

The JBL title reign is legendary. It was basically was like having Million Dollar Man hold the title for a year at his peak. He could get into the hall of fame based off of the title reign alone.

 

[StatUS]

That's your opinion though, and it's irrelevant to the discussion. The topic is about who's a better heel.

And this isn't nostalgia talking, it's just that to many smarks it's steal real to them, damnit and it took awhile to separate JBL's character from the dirtsheet reports of his backstage shenanigans.

My opinion was he was boring nothing about the IWC. Dude had a long reign where he was carried by some of the greatest faces of all time (Taker, Angle, Booker, Eddie). Made him look better than he really was.

Punk's better because I know damn well JBL couldn't have gotten people to pay to see Ryback beat him up in a Hell in the Cell.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

I hated JBLs initial run but its not because he was anything special as a heel.. I just hated the fact that he randomly got pushed down our throats and took the strap from eddie after being a midcarder his whole career...I admit later on I changed my opinion on him and now hes gold on commentary.

Daniel Bryan.

Dude was in the midst of a losing streak, totally unover and had no personality whatsoever as a face. Then BOOM he wins MITB and keeps losing then he gets in the title picture and beats Big Show.

You all get on JBL saying he was a midcarder with no main event credibility but Bryan had none either. At least prior to his main event push he was over, part of a popular tag team, won matches, and a multi time tag champion. Even during that horrible 2002 main event push where he was SCSA's buddy against the NWO he was waaaaaay more over than Bryan leading up to his title win.

But either way you got two legit, credible main eventers and world champions out of the deal, including one who's a breakout star ready to take the reigns at anytime. So yeah, those pushes out of nowhere are good and not just for people you stan.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

My opinion was he was boring nothing about the IWC. Dude had a long reign where he was carried by some of the greatest faces of all time (Taker, Angle, Booker, Eddie). Made him look better than he really was.

Punk's better because I know damn well JBL couldn't have gotten people to pay to see Ryback beat him up in a Hell in the Cell.

You don't know that though. You can only speculate. The truth and facts of the matter is JBL plays a true heel better than CM Punk. Now whether that entertains you or not is another topic.

 

[StatUS]

You don't know that though. You can only speculate. The truth and facts of the matter is JBL plays a true heel better than CM Punk. Now whether that entertains you or not is another topic.

Come on neither of us are speaking on truth and facts here. And I would know, I say it all the time

Speculation is one thing but I know most JBL matches sucked. No one was paying for that. Punk got a green monster face over in the span of 2 weeks. JBL had set up feuds with all time greats and a hot John Cena.

It doesn't even compare.

 

[ThatKidBlackHippy]

SmackDown CM Punk confronts Rey Mysterio while he's with his family - YouTube

JBL was never this good.

what a dope promo, people overlooked a lot of Punk's mic work pre-pipebomb shoot

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Come on neither of us are speaking on truth and facts here. And I would know, I say it all the time

Speculation is one thing but I know most JBL matches sucked. No one was paying for that. Punk got a green monster face over in the span of 2 weeks. JBL had set up feuds with all time greats and a hot John Cena.

It doesn't even compare.

Punk got Ryback over by himself? He could barely get his own heel turn over.

And your talent argument holds no weight because for a ten year stretch from 1997 to 2007 the E had a shyt ton of talent and characters. And I don't need to tell you the number of monster heel pushes that failed in that decade. By your logic everyone should have gotten over and been great heels. The talent was there....right?

what a dope promo, people overlooked a lot of Punk's mic work pre-pipebomb shoot

That's because it was boring and forgettable.

 

[StatUS]

Punk got Ryback over by himself? He could barely get his own heel turn over.

And your talent argument holds no weight because for a ten year stretch from 1997 to 2007 the E had a shyt ton of talent and characters. And I don't need to tell you the number of monster heel pushes that failed in that decade. By your logic everyone should have gotten over and been great heels. The talent was there....right?






That's because it was boring and forgettable.

Never said JBL had no talent he's just not as good as Punk. Punk's had better feuds with Taker and Cena as a heel. Put him in with Angle and Eddie and it woulda been the same. JBL a one trick pony with Punk changing his heel persona every time he turns. Dude came back to crickets on Raw, no one remembers him like that except the IWC you are rallying against here. He has no standing in history except for people who like to bring up that one In His Own Words promo.