That's not a contradiction or even difficult to understand, and you keep begging the question by claiming he "did something wrong" over and over.
Bernie needs to connect with black voters. Here’s how that’s going.
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That's not a contradiction or even difficult to understand, and you keep begging the question by claiming he "did something wrong" over and over.
Just to clarify, you actually started the Clinton conversation. Up to that point we were simply critiquing his use of the MLK line by Bernie. You compared him to Clinton being a godwater girl first that mentioned how she handled crime and welfare reform.
And this isn't to take shots at you. I actually respect your posts but Bernie is open, as a current candidate, to legit criticism and the usual fukkery jokes that come with the political season.
You seem to be arguing that both Rush and Mfume didn't think the bill would specifically harm the Black community, but that Bernie Sanders knew it would specifically hurt the Black community. You're claiming Bernie was out of touch with the needs of the Black community at the same time you're pretending he's more attuned to those needs than a couple of the most legit Black representatives of his day.Bobby Rush agreed with the bill at the time. He thought tough on crime policy would actually lead to positive change in the black community.
He has since condemned his own vote saying it was one of the two worst things that have happened to the black community in the last 50 years.
Regarding Mfume, his interviews at the time of the bill was that he was using the CBC to play politics to gain someeverage, but overall he supported the bill. These are his words:
They both thought it was a good bill. So they voted for it.
Bernie himself admitted he supported the bill because of its protections on domestic violence despite his concerns that it was a "Punishment bill."
As I said before, he weighed the pros and cons and thought the violance against women act was more important than the harm it would cause to the black community. Looking at the makeup of his constituents at the time, I can understand how he came to that conclusion.
Again, I don't really care much for his strong dissent when he could have just voted no if it actually mattered that much to him.
He's a lawmaker, he voted on a bill that significantly impacted the lives of millions of black men, women, and children as a calculated risk.
I don't think Bernie was weighing the equation of the crime bill specifically hurting Black people. Like he said in his speech and like his M.O. has always been, I think he saw the incarceration issue as one that hurt poor/disadvantaged people of any color, but saw the violence against women issue as also hurting people of any color. The claim you keep making that he was weighing the needs of the Black community against other needs has literally zero evidence. Black women suffer from violence too, and White men are incarcerated too. If anything he was elevating the needs of vulnerable women over the needs of vulnerable men, but that would go against the entire narrative people tried to paint of him in 2016 so no one would make that argument.
Trying to harp on Bernie being active in the CRM and Bernie not being anti-incarceration enough are NOT legitimate criticisms. He was more involved in the CRM than anyone else who has ever run for president short of Jesse Jackson (who, once again, he endorsed), and he was at least as anti-incarceration as anyone in the 1990s. And no one else running can claim to have been better in those two moments. There are legitimate critiques of Bernie, but those two are especially poor.It means that you're disregarding legitimate criticism just because he's your guy. It's the same behavior that cost Hillary the Whitehouse.
I didn't bring up Clinton first, she was mentioned in the OP as someone who did a better job with the Black vote than Bernie. I only brought up her actions in the 1960s to point out that that was a time when supporting the CRM was a very counter-cultural thing for a White person, and we don't pause for a second when we see that someone who is considered "pro-black" today was in fact campaigning for an anti-CRM candidate back then.
Someone else replied to that statement and said, "Yeah, but Bernie wasn't there for Black people for the Crime Bill when it mattered!"
You're right though that I was much more responsible for bringing Clinton into the conversation than I had remembered.
Point taken, I see it in the original article from the OP. Apologies for that.
I don't know anything about what happens in Twitter or wherever this "bad behavior" is going on, but the idea that Bernie splintered the Democratic ticket is straight slander. 90% of Bernie supporters voted for Clinton. There were far fewer Bernie supporters who refused to vote for Clinton in 2016 than there were Clinton supporters who refused to vote for Obama in 2008. And most of the Bernie supporters who didn't vote for Clinton were probably socialists/independents who weren't going to support an establishment Dem under any situation, it's not like he was pulling Democrats away from her.
Compare that to 2008, where only 85% of Clinton supporters voted for Obama even though they had basically the same platform. The truth is that 100% transfer never happens, but the 90% transfer Bernie achieved is great.
That's an outright lie.
Bernie Sanders’s real base is diverse — and very young
https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/190156_crosstabs_POLITICO_RVs_v1_ML.pdf
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-co...P_November2018_RegisteredVoters-Crosstabs.pdf
That's the annoying thing and it's been happening for three years - people are willing to resort to straight slander in order to try to cut down Bernie.
Is it or is it not a legitimate critique that Bernie Sanders has not connected as well with black voters despite his policy record? That's the entire crux and you've spent the better part of this thread attempting to argue his record instead of arguing how to address the legitimate gripes of how you connect with people.
Elizabeth Warren was brought up because everyone agrees that when asked about Race she does so in a better way.
When we talk about Rush and Mfume and their responses to their vote on the 1994 crime Bill we don't shift into this discussion of "Well he walked with MLK" or "He supported Jesse Jackson back in the day." We start where they start, that they voted for the bill despite some of their concerns and the results were terrible and they regret it. That's not what you're doing here and it's not what Bernard has done.
I brought up Hillary because she was the democratic nominee, she had policies that would have helped those in the Rust Belt and Midwest more than Trump, but she extremely poor at communicating those ideas to the target audience. Instead, you just had a bunch of policy nerds saying, "Well, if they paid attention they would have known she was better." That's just not how it works. But specific to this issue, despite her past she still did a better job winning black voters. Many of whom liked Bernie as well.
No matter how much you attempt to shift the conversation from "How he connects with Black Voters" to "This is his voting record therefore" you're still not addressing the actual criticism he's receiving and you're being dishonest.
What's Bernie polling with Black voters?
What's Warren polling with Black voters?
Meanwhile, the one who is polling by far the best with Black voters is Biden...who did what to deserve that?
You and I well know that reception at this particular event with those particular attendees (much of the audience was hand-picked by organizers) is going to be affected by historical realities that have nothing to do with anyone's message. No matter what he said at the event, Bernie is still the man who threatened the first female candidate with a legit chance to win, and some people honestly believe he somehow cost her the election. If even 10% of the crowd felt that way, that's gonna result in a lot of boos and negative impact to anything he says, and that carries crowd energy far. If another 20% of the attendees at a "She The People" event are going to prefer a female candidate over a man (that's probably a lowball estimate), then that will be an even bigger impact. But it doesn't reflect what's happening nationally.
Similarly, Warren did great with a warm crowd and delivered her message well. However, she's dealing with her own historical and political issues that have meant that no matter how good you think she is at this, she ain't polling for shyt in the Black community.
Meanwhile, Biden is completely pro-establishment, have never done anything whatsoever for the Black community that I'm aware of, delivers no great message for the Black community, is kinda creepy towards women, didn't even show up to the event...and yet polls far better with the Black community than anyone else.
Sanders is doing better with the Black voters than anyone not named Biden. He needs to do better than that to win. Some of his shortcomings are things he has little control over and can't change, and some he can. But being active in the CRM in the 1960s? Opposing mass incarceration but making a compromise vote in 1994? Neither of those issues have shyt to do with the work he needs to get done there.
NZA
LOL
bro, that had no impact on presidential politics. i already know her history, lol
You addressed this in one of your earlier posts. Most of the polls are driven by name recognition right now. There's a reason why Biden and Bernie top those lists.What's Bernie polling with Black voters?
What's Warren polling with Black voters?
Meanwhile, the one who is polling by far the best with Black voters is Biden...who did what to deserve that?
Warren and Bernie have a lot of overlap. Her strategy appears to be drop big policy proposals and directly address the nose consistent black primary voters in the south. If she makes it to the final 3 on the debate stage watch out!
I find this to particularly to be the frustrating part about Bernard. He has a good voting, legislative and activist record, but seemingly stumbles over himself when he easily shouldn't. It comes across an inorganic or worse inauthentic. Someone else addressed it, but it's like he's trying to remember talking points.
ADevilYouKhow
Rhyme Reason
Bernie doesn’t have a drop of hot sauce in his body. No scotch bonnets. Nothing.
Legitimate criticism.
Legitimate criticism.
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
When Hillary won those southern primaries, you said name recognition couldn't possibly be a factor.
Say what you will about reparations, Castro's point were salient.
If you can find a big check for everything else, you can find a big check for reparations if necessary.