Athiests & Firm Believers In Evolution....Come Hither

[mbewane]

they killed eachother only when completely neccisary for survival its not a difficult concept to grasp but it doesnt seem to be that your arguing against that you just feel as though survival leads to all morals? also trust is pretty vague here when it is just an assurance of something

but i dont see how when other living things like dolphins are completely built around group effort to survive and they arent coming up with morals like "only dolphins that are 18 years or older are adults and should be having sex" and "bury the dead dolphins out of respect for raising you" but these are common rules of conduct in most societies today of the human species and havent they been around longer? according to evolution

TBH I honest I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but yeah I am saying that "morals" are just "rules of conduct" that emerge from survival/common sense whne living with others, not some "God-given rules" that come out of nowhere.

Your example is flawed IMO because morality regarding sex has vastly evolved in the ages, a prime example that it is based on something else than religion (since religion has "founding texts" that don't change, the interpretation should be the same always. It's not, exactly because it's nothing more than an interpretations based on the situation at one moment or another). It was "moral" to wife pre-adolescent girls back then, now it's seen as "barbaric". Pre-marital sex was (is) frowned upon in certain areas, not in others, even those hwo share the same religious beliefs. Not sure about the whole burying thing (not only because...how would dolphins bury other dolphins anyway? lol) but I don't know when we started burying our dead nor if animals (I'm thinking of chimps and maybe other mamals) don't also have some treatment for their dead.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

TBH I honest I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but yeah I am saying that "morals" are just "rules of conduct" that emerge from survival/common sense whne living with others, not some "God-given rules" that come out of nowhere.

Your example is flawed IMO because morality regarding sex has vastly evolved in the ages, a prime example that it is based on something else than religion (since religion has "founding texts" that don't change, the interpretation should be the same always. It's not, exactly because it's nothing more than an interpretations based on the situation at one moment or another). It was "moral" to wife pre-adolescent girls back then, now it's seen as "barbaric". Pre-marital sex was (is) frowned upon in certain areas, not in others, even those hwo share the same religious beliefs. Not sure about the whole burying thing (not only because...how would dolphins bury other dolphins anyway? lol) but I don't know when we started burying our dead nor if animals (I'm thinking of chimps and maybe other mamals) don't also have some treatment for their dead.

It's called decomposition or carrion eaters

 

[NoMayo15]

so basically your saying because you dont agree with all the morals in the bible that morals dont come from religion? ok well that isnt really proving or disproving anything so that is a weak arguement

Well, I think his point is NONE of us agree with all the morals in the Bible, nor any holy book.

 

[Dirty_Jerz]

TBH I honest I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but yeah I am saying that "morals" are just "rules of conduct" that emerge from survival/common sense whne living with others, not some "God-given rules" that come out of nowhere.

Your example is flawed IMO because morality regarding sex has vastly evolved in the ages, a prime example that it is based on something else than religion (since religion has "founding texts" that don't change, the interpretation should be the same always. It's not, exactly because it's nothing more than an interpretations based on the situation at one moment or another). It was "moral" to wife pre-adolescent girls back then, now it's seen as "barbaric". Pre-marital sex was (is) frowned upon in certain areas, not in others, even those hwo share the same religious beliefs. Not sure about the whole burying thing (not only because...how would dolphins bury other dolphins anyway? lol) but I don't know when we started burying our dead nor if animals (I'm thinking of chimps and maybe other mamals) don't also have some treatment for their dead.

well i guess other animals dont have common sense then that stems from survival living with others

if morality in sex evolves through the ages then other species that have high intelligence should have them because they have been around longer then though right? not to mention they are constantly exposed to humans who have these morals but i guess that just further shows they dont have that ability of reasoning

as far as everything involving pre-marital sex and things like that in nature the only thing that should matter is if they are capable of producing children or not and that isnt the situation now of course because of morals but that isnt explaining where they come from exactly though but according to evolution we are just another set of animals that live in nature so we should just follow the natural law of things

its almost like when did these apes that turned human just decided like - you know what i dont like that your waiting for my daughter to ovulate so you can have more children from now on your going to have to wait a little while longer because i have morals what sparked all that?

and dolphins are powerful enough to move dead bodies and dig up dirt under the ocean so why wont they do it?

It's called decomposition or carrion eaters

humans could do the same instead of burying people in caskets and having funerals

Well, I think his point is NONE of us agree with all the morals in the Bible, nor any holy book.

but you agree with some of them dont you? or atleast one of them

 

[NoMayo15]

but you agree with some of them dont you? or atleast one of them

Hmmm... well, I'm not sure. I don't think any of the ten commandments are absolutely moral in every sense. I mean, 'Thou shall not kill' is sort of vague, isn't it? Does it mean we can't kill any animal, even for subsistence? Is it okay to kill in order to defend oneself? Or did God mean what most apologist intrepret it to mean murder with malice? I understand we're dealing with translations of translations of translations, but if we're talking about God's morality, and saving my eternal soul, I want to know exactly what it meant.

 

[daze23]

 

[Turenne]

TBH I honest I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but yeah I am saying that "morals" are just "rules of conduct" that emerge from survival/common sense whne living with others, not some "God-given rules" that come out of nowhere.

Your example is flawed IMO because morality regarding sex has vastly evolved in the ages, a prime example that it is based on something else than religion (since religion has "founding texts" that don't change, the interpretation should be the same always. It's not, exactly because it's nothing more than an interpretations based on the situation at one moment or another). It was "moral" to wife pre-adolescent girls back then, now it's seen as "barbaric". Pre-marital sex was (is) frowned upon in certain areas, not in others, even those hwo share the same religious beliefs. Not sure about the whole burying thing (not only because...how would dolphins bury other dolphins anyway? lol) but I don't know when we started burying our dead nor if animals (I'm thinking of chimps and maybe other mamals) don't also have some treatment for their dead.

Its hard I think to argue against moral relativism in any meaningful way. Which is why people like you and I are lucky to grow up and live in liberal democracies where the individual can make his own moral choices within a largely progressive but flawed social structure.

 

[mbewane]

well i guess other animals dont have common sense then that stems from survival living with others

if morality in sex evolves through the ages then other species that have high intelligence should have them because they have been around longer then though right? not to mention they are constantly exposed to humans who have these morals but i guess that just further shows they dont have that ability of reasoning

as far as everything involving pre-marital sex and things like that in nature the only thing that should matter is if they are capable of producing children or not and that isnt the situation now of course because of morals but that isnt explaining where they come from exactly though but according to evolution we are just another set of animals that live in nature so we should just follow the natural law of things

its almost like when did these apes that turned human just decided like - you know what i dont like that your waiting for my daughter to ovulate so you can have more children from now on your going to have to wait a little while longer because i have morals what sparked all that?

and dolphins are powerful enough to move dead bodies and dig up dirt under the ocean so why wont they do it?

Breh no offense by I seriously don't understand your point, why you comparing humans to animals?

 

[Dirty_Jerz]

Hmmm... well, I'm not sure. I don't think any of the ten commandments are absolutely moral in every sense. I mean, 'Thou shall not kill' is sort of vague, isn't it? Does it mean we can't kill any animal, even for subsistence? Is it okay to kill in order to defend oneself? Or did God mean what most apologist intrepret it to mean murder with malice? I understand we're dealing with translations of translations of translations, but if we're talking about God's morality, and saving my eternal soul, I want to know exactly what it meant.

well its interesting that your only quoting the bible but here is one i think you agree you with

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.]

or maybe this one

15 Thou shalt not steal.

or this

12 Honour thy father and thy mother

?

Breh no offense by I seriously don't understand your point, why you comparing humans to animals?

well there is no conclusion yet so im just taking notes here really and comparing thoughts

humans are animals according to evolution so im comparing animals to animals

 

[Dirty_Jerz]

Evolution of Altruism - YouTube

cool link breh but without them using that survival tactic they would probably be dying out so that doesnt seem like true altruism or selflessness just something neccisary not really a want or moral obligation

 

[ExodusNirvana]

humans could do the same instead of burying people in caskets and having funerals

 

[mbewane]

well there is no conclusion yet so im just taking notes here really and comparing thoughts

humans are animals according to evolution so im comparing animals to animals

Oh ok cool. I won't argue the fact that humans are animals but to compare human societal issues to dolphins or whatever is taking it a little too far IMO, human societies have developped very differently than other animals (not saying animals societies aren't extremely complex -think about ants- but different.)

 

[daze23]

cool link breh but without them using that survival tactic they would probably be dying out so that doesnt seem like true altruism or selflessness just something neccisary not really a want or moral obligation

again, IMO it's all about "survival". we humans have taken it to another level, but it has the same roots

 

[daze23]

and since when is there "dirt" under the ocean?

 

[NoMayo15]

cool link breh but without them using that survival tactic they would probably be dying out so that doesnt seem like true altruism or selflessness just something neccisary not really a want or moral obligation

Could dolphins actually do that? The bottom of the ocean?