Religion/Spirituality Atheism Discussion

[Mowgli]

as opposed to creating countless aliases to tell strangers on the internet that theyre 'demons', because they dont follow the teachings of your god

Who does that? Seems right up your alley.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

Like I said yea based on the worldview you believe in religion would be in that same category but like I said question is meant to be personalized

breh that makes NO fukking sense whatsoever

A religious person(whether its true or not) believes in a proper foundation with which he can believe in right and wrong without it not contradicting his own belief

Atheist on the other hand suffers from a contradiction when they try and establish right and wrong on a plane that goes above state/goct/culture

Again the question is not directed towards atheists that accept this but rather the ones who believe in sht like human rights/ human worth and a violation of such things

If u are not one of those atheists..then u guccii

breh come on now religious people contradict their own beliefs everyday. this is something i noticed growing up as a religious person. the goal posts are shifted time and time again. divorce is unacceptable according to the bible... look and see which region has the highest rates in the country and how they rank on beliefs. you're not supposed to have sex before marriage... once again, look up where the highest teen pregnancies are. love thy neighbor... who makes the biggest fuss on people being who they are? its funny how the most religious rely on this transcendent being, and yet make a habit out of turn their back on his instructions time and time again. if an atheist/nonbeliever struggles to go beyond state/govt/culture, its because they understand there's not much else beyond that. slice it whichever way you want to, but morality is and always will be subjective. some morals have a much greater consensus though, according to what we as humans value innately.

 

[blackslash]

breh that makes NO fukking sense whatsoever




breh come on now religious people contradict their own beliefs everyday. this is something i noticed growing up as a religious person. the goal posts are shifted time and time again. divorce is unacceptable according to the bible... look and see which region has the highest rates in the country and how they rank on beliefs. you're not supposed to have sex before marriage... once again, look up where the highest teen pregnancies are. love thy neighbor... who makes the biggest fuss on people being who they are? its funny how the most religious rely on this transcendent being, and yet make a habit out of turn their back on his instructions time and time again. if an atheist/nonbeliever struggles to go beyond state/govt/culture, its because they understand there's not much else beyond that. slice it whichever way you want to, but morality is and always will be subjective. some morals have a much greater consensus though, according to what we as humans value innately.

This whole section of ur post has nothing to do with my previous post..U keep misunderstanding my post...its almost as if u see the word religion then go to some religion rant without even taking to account what I actually said

As for the second half of your post
It doesnt rlly go against OP
An Atheist has no foundation to speak on right and wrong on levels beyond state culture and govt.

Human rights and worth and a violation of those things are mere illusory..
Moral constructs are just mere illusory constructs brought upon by societal and evolutionary conditioning,according to your worldview.

In the same way(according to atheists) god is an illusory concept

If you're gonna complain about theists adhering to illusory concepts..cool
But then u turn around and adhere to illusory constructs such as morality and adhere to it knowing it is just illusion??

Follow what you preach..

But ya..if anything ur post shows me ur one of those atheists that the OP is not addressing...

Matta fact..I have to ask..what even possessed u to post in this thread

What did u find wrong with the OP?

 

[blackslash]

at the television with bible channels, the media overflowing with christian right wing propaganda, and textbooks being retconned to include intelligent design being the 'churches' of atheism.

Mowgli

I honestly dnt see this in mainstream media..

Rather I see the opposite

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

divorce is unacceptable according to the bible...

False. Divorce is discouraged, but it is acceptable with provisions (adultery, death, etc).

you're not supposed to have sex before marriage...

There is no passage in the NT or OT that explicitly forbids the act, but it does encourage people to indulge in it only with their wife/husband rather than everybody. It's supposed to be something 'special' between them that promotes intimacy and trust. Not a 'casual' thing one does when one is bored with whomever happens to appeal to you at the time.

but morality is and always will be subjective.

That claim presupposes that there are facts about right and wrong that are 'agent-specific', but applying different moral standards to different people is ridiculous. If there is a rational argument for the moral wrongness of genocide (for instance), does it make sense to apply that argument only to the United States' treatment of Native Americans in the 1800's and not Germany's treatment of Jews during WW II?

Of course not.

All of this is besides the point, though.​

 

[Biblical Goon]

Its like raising a dog with no friends or siblings. One day your friend decides to bring his dog over to play with your dog but your dog plays way too rough and bites too hard because he has not been around other dogs. Your dog ends up biting the other dog hard and the dog yelps in pain, the end result is your dog learns that he/she cannot bite too hard otherwise it would get a negative reaction and the other dog will not interact with him/her anymore.


Every animal has the will to survive, that includes humans as well..in order to sustain survival we must work together. Obviously killing, raping ect.. does nothing to help survival. Its simple....morality is not rocket science, its just natural. Saying a atheist does not have morals is just flat out silly.

Sorry i had to jump out of character, but that shyt has been bothering me.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Every animal has the will to survive, that includes humans as well..in order to sustain survival we must work together.

Although I agree with the premise, this isn't correct. We don't HAVE to work together to survive. I could just force you to work for me if I have the power to do so, or, just kill you if you have something I want. Survival doesn't explain morality and definitely doesn't explain radical altruism which is only a characteristic of human beings.

Carry on.​

 

[Type Username Here]

Survival doesn't explain morality and definitely doesn't explain radical altruism which is only a characteristic of human beings.

Carry on.​

Wrong yet again. You've been wrong this entire thread and when someone calls you out on it you play semantics and dictionary gymnastics.

Let's look at the animal closest to us on the intelligence scale:

Altruistic Dolphins Help Seal Find Its Way Back To Sea (VIDEO)

Dolphins rescue surfer from shark - today > news - People: Tales of survival - TODAY.com

Dolphins form life raft to help dying friend - life - 25 January 2013 - New Scientist

Elian says dolphins saved his life - World News | IOL News | IOL.co.za

CNN.com - Dolphin saves boy from drowning - August 29, 2000


There is a LARGE sample size of these acts.

 

[Camammal]

Although I agree with the premise, this isn't correct. We don't HAVE to work together to survive. I could just force you to work for me if I have the power to do so, or, just kill you if you have something I want. Survival doesn't explain morality and definitely doesn't explain radical altruism which is only a characteristic of human beings.

Carry on.​

Wrong! Some animals have it too.

Edit: I see dude posted examples above.

And on a human spectrum how do you suppose a place like Norway, one of the most secular countries in the world have such low crime rates compared to the US? where did they get their morality from? Explain..

 

[blackslash]

Its like raising a dog with no friends or siblings. One day your friend decides to bring his dog over to play with your dog but your dog plays way too rough and bites too hard because he has not been around other dogs. Your dog ends up biting the other dog hard and the dog yelps in pain, the end result is your dog learns that he/she cannot bite too hard otherwise it would get a negative reaction and the other dog will not interact with him/her anymore.


Every animal has the will to survive, that includes humans as well..in order to sustain survival we must work together. Obviously killing, raping ect.. does nothing to help survival. Its simple....morality is not rocket science, its just natural. Saying a atheist does not have morals is just flat out silly.

Sorry i had to jump out of character, but that shyt has been bothering me.

This does nothing to answer the question of the OP..cuz again the OP is not insinuating that atheists dont have morals

It is asking the question
That based on the claims of the naturalistic worldview
How can an atheist believe in sht like human rights, worth and a violation of those things, that go beyond what culture/state/govt impute on us.

I cant rlly type too much rii now cuz Im at work so I'll just requote myself for emphasis

look at all these replies to my thread

I'll jus make a statement that for the most part addresses all the responses

On the atheistic side humans are just animals
Animals have no moral obligations to one another. When a lion kills a zebra, it kills the zebra but it does not murder the zebra. When a great white shark forcefully copulates with a female, it does not rape her.
There is no moral dimension to these actions. They're neither prohibited or obligatory.

So in this worldview, why think that we have any moral obligations to do anything?
Who or what imposes these moral duties upon us? Its very hard to see in this worldview how they can be anything more than just a subjective impression arising in us as a result of societal and parental conditioning.

On the atheistic view, certain actions such as incest and rape may not be biologically and socially advantageous...so in the course of human development they've become taboo. But that does absolutely nothing to prove that rape or incest is wrong..cuz after all, that kind of behavior goes on all the time in the animal kingdom.

If the moral principles that govern our behavior are rooted in habit, custom, feeling and fashion, then the rapist that goes against the herd morality is doing nothing more serious than acting unfashionably.

Now my post isnt towards those that agree with my post rather the atheists that believe in an objective morality.

I'll holla at you brehs when I can

Exactly...
I'll say this again

In order for there to be a moral law, there needs to be a moral lawgiver
And again my argument is not that you need to believe in God to live a moral life
Nor am I saying we must believe in God to recognize objective moral values

What I am arguing is.. if you believe God doesnt exist how can you believe that objective moral values and duties exist

If God does not exist it has profound implications
It becomes impossible to condemn war, oppression and crime as evil
Nor can we praise things such as love, equality,or self sacrifice as good

It doesnt matter what values you choose for there is no right or wrong.
Good and evil do not exist.

That means an atrocity like the holocaust was really just morally indifferent
You may think that it was wrong, but the Nazi perpetrators that carried it out thought that it was good

There is no objective reason man should do anything except for the pleasure it rewards him.

Acts of self sacrifice become particularly imprudent on a naturalistic worldview.
Why should you sacrifice your self interest and especially, your life for the sake of someone else.
There can be no good reason for adopting such a self negating course of action in the naturalistic worldview.

Consider it from the socio-biological point of view, such altruistic behavior is merely the result of evolutionary conditioning which helps to perpetuate the species.

A soldier throwing his body over a hand grenade to save his comrades is like a fighter ant which sacrifices itself for the sake of the ant hill.

Common sense dictates that we should resist the socio-biological pressures to such self destructive activity and choose instead to act in our best self interest.

But see thats the thing...they may have allowed the species to thrive but at the cost of your own self gain.

You live, then you die
There's no moral difference between being selfish and being selfless

Why sacrifice your life and your well being for someone else when ultimately it is neither good or evil..it is just you following the illusory moral obligations given to you by societal and evolutionary conditioning and you sacrifice your well being for what is ultimately an illusory moral duty.

If these are just illusory, then the self sacrificial individual is indeed living by illusory products of evolutionary conditioning and sacrificing his well being in the process

And based on the worldview..him being self sacrificial was neither good or evil..it was just him living for the illusion of moral obligation/duty.

And this individual when he dies, doesnt experience the so called fruits of his actions soo that is what I mean by common sense dictating that we should live for our best self interest..given the nature of life and death in this worldview.

So if raping a woman gives u pleasure..then do you..doesnt make sense to make an illusory concept stop you

If starting a genocide for a people you hate is what gives you pleasure..then do u..it doesnt make sense to make an illusory concept stop you

Btw Im speaking from the perspective of the naturalistic world view

 

[Slang]

And on a human spectrum how do you suppose a place like Norway, one of the most secular countries in the world have such low crime rates compared to the US? where did they get their morality from? Explain..

For one, Norway is a homogeneous population of only 5 million over nearly 400,000km2, if you were to compare crime rates it would be similar to the state of Arizona of similar size and population density.

As far as morality is concerned, Norway has a monarchy, an am pretty sure it is the monarchy that dictates the state of morality among the people.

 

[acri1]

This does nothing to answer the question of the OP..cuz again the OP is not insinuating that atheists dont have morals

It is asking the question
That based on the claims of the naturalistic worldview
How can an atheist believe in sht like human rights, worth and a violation of those things, that go beyond what culture/state/govt impute on us.

I cant rlly type too much rii now cuz Im at work so I'll just requote myself for emphasis

Except that it is. You're just typing paragraphs and paragraphs of "Atheists can't have morals because they don't believe in god".

You seem to think that any moral rule that doesn't come from "god" isn't a real moral or something.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Although I agree with the premise, this isn't correct. We don't HAVE to work together to survive. I could just force you to work for me if I have the power to do so, or, just kill you if you have something I want. Survival doesn't explain morality and definitely doesn't explain radical altruism which is only a characteristic of human beings.

Carry on.​

Yes it does you silly bytch. What species is going to survive longer, one that works together to survive as a collective or a kill or be killed situation constantly? If we didn't have innate morality and willingness to be nice and share with eachother then we wouldn't have progressed to our current state because we HAVE to work together for society to function. Now we're living longer than ever. And Altruism isn't only a characteristic found in humans

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

To all of you stating 'You're wrong'..........



Actions such as this have NOTHING to do with survival and they are normal throughout all of humanity.​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

And on a human spectrum how do you suppose a place like Norway, one of the most secular countries in the world have such low crime rates compared to the US? where did they get their morality from? Explain..

The same place we in the US and elsewhere got ours. Religion.
​