Religion/Spirituality Atheism Discussion

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Wrong yet again. You've been wrong this entire thread and when someone calls you out on it you play semantics and dictionary gymnastics.

No, I'm right. There has been nothing to 'call me out on' in this entire thread since I've only posted a couple times. You really need to stop exaggerating....starting with your own self-importance. Your examples are spurious outliers, not normative, and not what I'm referring to. Humans are the ONLY species on this planet that display morality as an attribute of normal behavior. The examples you provided are just your anthropomorphisms...

You, and others, are confusing psychological altruism with biological altruism. You need to brush-up on your semantics since I'm referring to one thing and you're referring to another.....as usual.

Read this:

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[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Yes it does you silly bytch. What species is going to survive longer, one that works together to survive as a collective or a kill or be killed situation constantly? If we didn't have innate morality and willingness to be nice and share with eachother then we wouldn't have progressed to our current state because we HAVE to work together for society to function. Now we're living longer than ever. And Altruism isn't only a characteristic found in humans

No, it doesn't fukk-boy.

You're misunderstanding my point. Humans (Hom0 Sapiens sapiens) have been a species for about ~300,000 years. Ants, on the other hand, have been around for several hundred million years and are far more successful than we are. Ants don't possess morals and aren't 'nice' to each other. Working together collectively =/= morality.

I didn't say 'altruism'. I said 'radical altruism'. You're also getting psychological altruism and biological altruism mixed-up like TUH and anyone who dapped his post.

You atheists (and wannabe's) need to either get your dogma together or shut the fukk up.

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[Camammal]

The same place we in the US and elsewhere got ours. Religion.
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[Ian1362]

This isn't even relevant anyway. Just because humans got their "morality" from religion (which is a somewhat dubious assertion as is, at least over the past half century) doesn't mean religion is "right" in any metaphysical sense to which atheist would find complaint.

As for OP, natural law is your answer. Belief in god is one of the primary tenants of a lot of natural law theory, at least traditionally, but god can be substituted (and often is) for rational inquiry of man leading him to some natural truths about himself and his environment. Egalitarians/Anarcho-syndicalists also would enter their own moral theories outside of religion for defining "value" of humans.

Correct me if Im wrong but atheists believe that we arent created we are jus here...products of time, chance and matter.

If thats the case, doesnt that mean objectively we are beings of no value
And without value, morality cant exist.

This literally makes no sense. Humans are considered to have value for several reasons, not "their just random"; such value judgement include, but aren't limited to:

-Humans are rational animals
-Humans possess unique consciousness (we all think differently and have subjective hobbies and interests) and the means by which to contemplate and act upon those conscious thoughts
-Humans own themselves in a tangible sense

A few other animals (Dolphins, Great Apes, etc) possess some form of consciousness above most of the rest of the animal kingdom, but humans possess a unique ability to reason, interact, contemplate, and cooperate socially on a level unparalleled by any other creature. That we are unique is what makes us special.

Of course, value is also subjective; for example, the life of someone who wantonly rapes and murders children would largely not be considered by other members of society to be possessing the same value as Mother Teresa, so much so that it is considered just to contain him in a cage or execute him.

 

[Ian1362]

There is no beauty within nature or the cosmos

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

I think their is beauty within nature. Am I wrong?

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Nominal religion in Norway is mostly Protestant (Evangelical-Lutheran) with 77% of the population belonging to the state Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway. Early Norwegians, like all of the people of Scandinavia, were adherents of Norse paganism; the Sámi having a shamanistic religion. Due to the efforts of Christian missionaries, Norway was gradually Christianized in a process starting at approximately 1000 and substantially finished by 1150. Prior to the Reformation, Norwegians were part of the Catholic Church with the conversion to Protestantism commencing in 1536.

@ 'one of the most secular places in the world'. Maybe according to how many of them state that religion plays an important part in their lives (like 20%), the remainder are just using the Church affiliation for the benefits.....which makes them hypocrites. That is beside the point, though, since how much religion plays in their lives isn't the issue but, rather, where the moral values of their society stem.
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[blackslash]

This isn't even relevant anyway. Just because humans got their "morality" from religion (which is a somewhat dubious assertion as is, at least over the past half century) doesn't mean religion is "right" in any metaphysical sense to which atheist would find complaint.

As for OP, natural law is your answer. Belief in god is one of the primary tenants of a lot of natural law theory, at least traditionally, but god can be substituted (and often is) for rational inquiry of man leading him to some natural truths about himself and his environment. Egalitarians/Anarcho-syndicalists also would enter their own moral theories outside of religion for defining "value" of humans.



This literally makes no sense. Humans are considered to have value for several reasons, not "their just random"; such value judgement include, but aren't limited to:

-Humans are rational animals
-Humans possess unique consciousness (we all think differently and have subjective hobbies and interests) and the means by which to contemplate and act upon those conscious thoughts
-Humans own themselves in a tangible sense

A few other animals (Dolphins, Great Apes, etc) possess some form of consciousness above most of the rest of the animal kingdom, but humans possess a unique ability to reason, interact, contemplate, and cooperate socially on a level unparalleled by any other creature. That we are unique is what makes us special.

Of course, value is also subjective; for example, the life of someone who wantonly rapes and murders children would largely not be considered by other members of society to be possessing the same value as Mother Teresa, so much so that it is considered just to contain him in a cage or execute him.

So there is no such thing as good and evil correct?

 

[A.J.Soprano]

I'm an atheist (atheist/agnostic meaning I reject man written fairytales attributed to "God" or Gods but I'm open to the concept and my mind is subject to change if some real evidence becomes available) myself so this isn't a snark thread.


I'm mostly okay with that concept although there are certain times where I'm thinking about it and I'm kinda feeling like ...damn, that sucks.


At the same time I wouldn't want to live forever in an afterlife kissing some dudes ass.... (but regardless of what I want or don't want there's no real evidence of an afterlife in the way it's described in religion)



What happens to a star when it burns out? That's just it for that poor star? No star heaven?


Kinda makes everything we do now a waste of time, I don't give a sh1t about instinctive animal sh1t like passing on my genes or creating a legacy so people can remember me after I'm gone (There's no point since those who remember you will eventually die and those who remember them will eventually die and so on...)





outside of irrelevant goals we set for ourselves that don't really mean sh1t (School, work, hobbies, taking care of kids u don't want, entertainment, chasing hoes, drugs or whatever ur particular vice is) there's no reason not to commit that. (but I also guess there's no reason to do it if u don't want to also)






I'm not depressed or anything, this is just real spit tho






Ya'l brainwashed religious folks just don't know how good yal got it sometimes. The Bible/Quran has every answer you'll ever need about everything and everything will just work out fine if you just follow that path. I wish I could join ur team but it's too late.

 

[Techniec]

I try not to think about it

 

[A.J.Soprano]

I try not to think about it

I kinda want the religious sh1t to be true but I don't want God to be a d1ck like he's portrayed in EVERY RELIGION. Like....... if the afterlife was ruled my Uncle Jesse from "Fullhouse" that sh1t would be fun.



I also want some real evidence for these claims outside of God told me and now I'm telling you bullsh1t. (which is at the base core of every religious belief) As a member of the human race I know first hand that n1ggas historically lie and make sh1t up.



Religious folks don't realize how we'd be open to the sh1t they believe in if it wasn't so blatantly obvious that it was made up bullsh1t.



I do understand the power of religion and how it can give people hope/motivation tho, but that alone isn't any reason to subscribe to literal interpretation of these ideas.



Imagine if the African slaves didn't have religion, how fukked up would it have been for them? that lil bit of hope they had for an afterlife was enough to get them through the day, perception is reality


I kinda hate myself for being a skeptic in that regard though. We're missing out on that brehs

 

[babylon1]

damn, OP that was some strong ether. i used to be an atheist but i now know that a higher power does exist. i don't know what it is but i know there is something way more advanced than us that is watching over us.

chew on this. even if you are re-incarnated, your memory will be wiped clean. if you don't re-incarnate and your spirit remains in spirit form then you still will not have any memory of this human experience. so regardless of my belief, when i die all that i lose is the facade known as babylon1. the spirit will either ascend or re-incarnate in order to learn more lessons. no matter which scenario is true, babylon1 will be gone along with all of my memories of this life

i'm leaning more towards life reviews being true. kinda like the radiohead song "my videotape"

[HD] Thom Yorke - Videotape (From The Basement) - YouTube

 

[Mr.Black]

I wouldn't care if there is a real "god" or whatever the fukk, because if it exists and I'm expected to kiss it's ass my whole life on blind faith alone and never see it than it isn't worth it to me

I rather believe in what I can see which is money and let whatever happens happen

 

[A.J.Soprano]

damn, OP that was some strong ether. i used to be an atheist but i now know that a higher power does exist. i don't know what it is but i know there is something way more advanced than us that is watching over us.

chew on this. even if you are re-incarnated, your memory will be wiped clean. if you don't re-incarnate and your spirit remains in spirit form then you still will not have any memory of this human experience. so regardless of my belief, when i die all that i lose is the facade known as babylon1. the spirit will either ascend or re-incarnate in order to learn more lessons. no matter which scenario is true, babylon1 will be gone along with all of my memories of this life

i'm leaning more towards life reviews being true. kinda like the radiohead song "my videotape"

[HD] Thom Yorke - Videotape (From The Basement) - YouTube

the bold is a whole other debate bro. Concepts/words we have no real evidence for but seem to simply take for granted that they exist


But I hear what ur trying to say though

 

[chuckifubuck]

I feel similar to you OP, though I been spooked enough by the thought of nothingness to go from atheist to "really really wish there's something after this"

I mean when you think about it, nothing we ever do has any meaning when in an instant all your memories, experiences, thoughts and ideas will be erased. Really, when you die the universe ends

edit- also nice name/post combo

 

[A.J.Soprano]

I feel similar to you OP, though I been spooked enough by the thought of nothingness to go from atheist to "really really wish there's something after this"

I mean when you think about it, nothing we ever do has any meaning when in an instant all your memories, experiences, thoughts and ideas will be erased. Really, when you die the universe ends