Religion/Spirituality Atheism and the black community...good read

[froggle]

Well yeah I realized that over time. It's clear to me especially now. It's why some muslim countries are sohh anal about women talking or even looking at males, because the potential for human sexual relations to occur.

What I can't look past is christianity, being a religion that was imposed onto us.

Lupe Fiasco - Strange Fruition (feat. Casey Benjamin) - YouTube

but what do you know of the religions of our ancestors from the west coast of Africa? For some of those religions, they still accepted that there is a higher deity, but I'm not "African" and Christianity is what I grew up with and I'm ok with it.

Was it used to enslave us, damn right, but it goes back to the whole people thing and how people use whatever they want to their own benefit.

For "me" personally there must be a reason why almost every culture worships a higher being, whatever it is. Christianity is good for me, yet I don't look at anyone else and say your going to hell because you don't believe. As the boy Pac said, only God can judge me

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Who lives the life following the word. They not only worship the Lord the way they should, but also are the ones who are helping the least fortunate. People who dedicate their life and ministry to the dregs of society. The poorest of the poor, people locked up, the elderly etc. Take out the politics and all the other madness and even if they believe in the so called "fairy tales" they should be leading an exemplary life.

What happens though is everybody feels as if they are right. PS3 > Xbox, Iphone > Android, Nas > Jay-z, Kobe > Lebron etc etc and these stans are what gives anything a bad name. It is jarring and that is where strife develops because mine is better than yours.

Definitely a case of the "No True Scotsman"

Also, where did you get that rationale? Is it biblical? Did you make it up? Are you only including the passages you like while ignoring the passages you dont like? Do all other self identifying christians agree with you?

 

[Gus Money]

What is the point of having a view on something if you are scared to share that view?

Did you not read the article in the original post?

 

[Serious]

but what do you know of the religions of our ancestors from the west coast of Africa? For some of those religions, they still accepted that there is a higher deity, but I'm not "African" and Christianity is what I grew up with and I'm ok with it.

Was it used to enslave us, damn right, but it goes back to the whole people thing and how people use whatever they want to their own benefit.

For "me" personally there must be a reason why almost every culture worships a higher being, whatever it is. Christianity is good for me, yet I don't look at anyone else and say your going to hell because you don't believe. As the boy Pac said, only God can judge me

That's cool bro, I respect that. I just haven't reached that stage, where I feel comfortable going back in a church setting and what not. It may take a while. I don't deny there being a "higher entity". I just don't mess with organized religion, per se.

At the end of the day, I believe religion, truly encompasses a great set of instilled morals in the eyes of many. While some interpret the word unjustly and commit heinous crimes, many others are able to reach a state of homeostasis in their lives. And I can't knock that.

 

[Still Benefited]

As a athiest are you annoying with it sounding like a demon?a lot of athiest find the need to mock god which makes me uncomfortable.....comes off as arrogant,makes u think "this sounds like sumthin the devil would say",or u assume sumthin really horrible mustve happened to this person bcuz they can come off as bitter,so then u start tryna preach to them knowin u might not be the best person for the job,but u preach and ask why thinkin they must be suicidal or angry cuz they don't believe, then they get more angry and sound more bitter,then u get angry and it causes division.


Everybody need to check they respect level,especially athiest and they might have fewer problems.....u don't see muslims having a struggle for not bein christian,maybe its a better more respectful way of takin a stance that sum athiest don't take that cause them problems.....saying certain things just rile up black folks and as a black person u should know this....its rare a black person says they don't believe in god so when u say it people will have many questions for u,questions that may cause u to get defensive...u will fire back with questions that will cause them to get defensive.....defensiveness will cause logic to fly out the window regarding a topic where there is no valid logic on either side to begin with so u know its gon end bad....but a support group is a little extreme....a black person who hates 2pac can get the same ugly reactions athiest get...its different when u in a strong religious family but outside of that maybe justnot taking a stance or letting people talk about god freely and saying nuthing would help.

 

[Still Benefited]

a lot of religious people are not conscious of the seemingly obvious fact that telling people they are going to hell, are demonic, or are not really black is actually very disrespectful and will get you some disrespectful responses. this then causes some of these religious people to be genuinely hurt and feel oppressed because really, being in the majority makes you blind to the struggles of others if you are not aware of this phenomenon. then both brehs are left with hostile attitudes about the other side. it's sad, but it seems that it actually has to happen this way due to the nature of intolerant, monotheistic religions. their ultimate goal is to win converts, maintain cohesion, and marginalize opposition, whether the average believer understands this or not.

im sympathetic to the fact that in order to be a christian, you kinda have to believe that other people are going to hell, are living wrong, are worshiping the wrong thing, that your book has all the answers of the universe, and that everybody should be happy to hear this from you. i really am sympathetic to this since i used to be one, but just know that a negative response to that kind of rhetoric is also very natural. it is not oppression, and it is not even evidence of an effort or movement against you per se, it may just be a symptom of telling people really negative and hostile things with a smile on your face and the tone of righteousness in your voice.

another thing, if you make empirical or rational clams based on biblical knowledge, it is not oppression for people to want to hold the claim to the same scrutiny other empirical, or rational claims are held to. that is just the convention of those ways of thinking. if your claims remain faith-based, those conventions wont apply.

but if you take only one thing from this, brehs, just put yourself in other people's shoes as many times as you possibly can. im not perfect at this, but i do try and i feel it has helped me a lot intellectually.

Good post,its weird that people who don't really go to church,follow the bible and aren't really strongly religious have such strong reactions towards people who are not religious....and its weird people who don't believe in god do get so defensive when told they might go to what they believe is an imaginary place called hell or won't get into heaven...I've seen it happen both ways....I think it goes back to what I said about logic goin out the window bcuz folks get defensive....it seems to be a matter of no matter how strongly u believe whether it be strongly,barely,or not at all....deep down everybody still know the story,and deep down u believe on sum level....its engrained in everybody,don't know if its culturally or just instinctively...but same way sumone who barely believes in god knows the story feels the fear they will be punished or go to hell if they let a athiest speak blashemy without commenting on it,athiest who don't believe still know the story too,and know the idea of hell and are offended by a believer saying they will go there,otherwise that statement would get the "childplease:hell u still believe in that shyt?"....god got this on lock why fight it

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Good post,its weird that people who don't really go to church,follow the bible and aren't really strongly religious have such strong reactions towards people who are not religious....and its weird people who don't believe in god do get so defensive when told they might go to what they believe is an imaginary place called hell or won't get into heaven...I've seen it happen both ways....I think it goes back to what I said about logic goin out the window bcuz folks get defensive....it seems to be a matter of no matter how strongly u believe whether it be strongly,barely,or not at all....deep down everybody still know the story,and deep down u believe on sum level....its engrained in everybody,don't know if its culturally or just instinctively...but same way sumone who barely believes in god knows the story feels the fear they will be punished or go to hell if they let a athiest speak blashemy without commenting on it,athiest who don't believe still know the story too,and know the idea of hell and are offended by a believer saying they will go there,otherwise that statement would get the "childplease:hell u still believe in that shyt?"....god got this on lock why fight it

because the religious try to impose their beliefs on the rest of the country through laws, and as you stated, there is NO LOGIC behind it. I got no problem with niccaz believin in fairy tales at all, as long as they dont try to affect me with their fairy tales. The second they try to teach nonsense in science classes I then have the responsibility to teach reason and science in their sunday school classes (or to blow their beliefs out the water).

 

[Still Benefited]

because the religious try to impose their beliefs on the rest of the country through laws, and as you stated, there is NO LOGIC behind it. I got no problem with niccaz believin in fairy tales at all, as long as they dont try to affect me with their fairy tales. The second they try to teach nonsense in science classes I then have the responsibility to teach reason and science in their sunday school classes (or to blow their beliefs out the water).

U mean nonsense unlike the big bang....how about don't teach anything in science you can't prove or is useless information and that would make everybody happy and wuld make science class real short,science chapters stay starting off "scientist believe......"............I agree laws should be unbias but if that's the case they shouldn't be able to ask govt officials about they religious beliefs during elections.

 

[Won Won]

U mean nonsense unlike the big bang....how about don't teach anything in science you can't prove or is useless information and that would make everybody happy and wuld make science class real short,science chapters stay starting off "scientist believe......"............I agree laws should be unbias but if that's the case they shouldn't be able to ask govt officials about they religious beliefs during elections.

You can put the Big Bang in the "nonsense" column all you want, and you'll still down about 1000 to 1 in the SMH ratio

 

[intilectual recipricol]

U mean nonsense unlike the big bang....how about don't teach anything in science you can't prove or is useless information and that would make everybody happy and wuld make science class real short,science chapters stay starting off "scientist believe......"............I agree laws should be unbias but if that's the case they shouldn't be able to ask govt officials about they religious beliefs during elections.

Do they teach the big bang? Thing is, the expanding universe is observable. Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Appolo, Ra, Baal, etc are not... Science is about the observable and predictable based on observation, then duplicated. if they taught it correctly science class would be long as fukc... With no skymen involved.

 

[No1]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Yeah, the trend will continue overall, but maybe not uniformly in all communities and geographical locations in the country.

In some places, you're already seeing a regressive, irrational pushback against social change and perceived threat or encroachment on their culture and way of life sort of similar to what happened in many middle eastern nations in the latter part of last century, though not as extreme...all this tea party God, guns, and gold funfamentalist/survivalist/nationalist nonsense.

This isn't Iran, we have more freedom of information and legal freedoms. And overall, the country will continue to be more progressive with successive generations. But don't underestimate how much many will fiercely cling to their fundamentalism and instill that in their kids on some Jesus Camp shyt. The more people isolate themselves, and the more society moves in the opposite direction, the more extreme they tend to get. They will be a minority yes, but enough to be a problem for those in or around those environments.

But at the end of the day, I don't think we ever fully vanquish anything, at least not in the course of a few lifetimes. We just try our best to keep it quarantined.

To the complaints of disrespect though, there is some merit to it and you guys know it. People got mad at me the other day for saying "you know how they are," but I was speaking directly to that reality. If you have regulars in here like me and BrokeWave who recognize it then it's probably happening. It's just that people are so sure in their stance and feel this greater comfort expressing these views online that they disregard any filter and become the only equivalent to what they profess to hating offline. I mean, I literally went a year without getting involved in any religion threads and I never did on the , if you reach a point where I think you're overgeneralizing and being offensive, you probably are. I can't really co-sign this victim mentality and hide your hands this @ciroq drobama is doing in here. You may not do it personally homie, but it happens.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

But at the end of the day, I don't think we ever fully vanquish anything, at least not in the course of a few lifetimes. We just try our best to keep it quarantined.

To the complaints of disrespect though, there is some merit to it and you guys know it. People got mad at me the other day for saying "you know how they are," but I was speaking directly to that reality. If you have regulars in here like me and BrokeWave who recognize it then it's probably happening. It's just that people are so sure in their stance and feel this greater comfort expressing these views online that they disregard any filter and become the only equivalent to what they profess to hating offline. I mean, I literally went a year without getting involved in any religion threads and I never did on the , if you reach a point where I think you're overgeneralizing and being offensive, you probably are. I can't really co-sign this victim mentality and hide your hands this @ciroq drobama is doing in here. You may not do it personally homie, but it happens.

With the underlined, I disagree. As I believe I am one of the more outspoken, and non-sugarcoating atheist on the boards, I will address this post. I dont think we have become what we speak out against. Why, because what we speak out against is forcing upon us unfounded and unsupported claims and beliefs.

For example, I absolutely despise needles. Hate shots with a passion. However, its been exhibited that vaccines actually do help prevent disease. So, though I hate shots, I tend to get certain vaccines. Their claims are grounded in reality, thus I dont tell my doctor that she's spittin that ol bullshyt. Furthermore, my doctor has exhibited a greater medical understanding than I have as well; it would be disrespectful for me to challenge her on some medical shyt. And therefore I dont.

On religion however, we're all privy to the same information. If you read the same bible I do you are no more trained in it than I am. If a believer, and many dont, doesnt know whats in his bible and says yahweh is against killing, then I cite verses of yahweh demanding killing why would I respect their view when they havent a clue what theyre talking about? Why should I respect the god of a book that demands the rape of young girls? Why shouldnt I speak out on those things? Why are theists offended when we point these things out?

I know the evils yahweh demands in the bible are typically not carried out by your everyday Christian, but they are carried out by some, who probably wouldnt do those things if their favorite holy book hadnt sanctioned it. Would people still be stoning adulterers if their holy book hadnt demanded it?

Thus the only way for me to respect religions with poisonous holy books is to take the poison out of the book all together. My question is why does anyone respect and honor books that demand sanction the murder and rape of children? The way to get me personally to stop would be to demonstrate the truth of your beliefs. You say yahweh exists and he wants me to kill fakkets, then prove his existence 1st.

And as for myself I am the same way offline when people want to interject their religion where it ought not be. Doesnt matter if its a stranger, a the Reverend, or my own mother. Truth is truth.

 

[No1]

With the underlined, I disagree. As I believe I am one of the more outspoken, and non-sugarcoating atheist on the boards, I will address this post. I dont think we have become what we speak out against. Why, because what we speak out against is forcing upon us unfounded and unsupported claims and beliefs.

For example, I absolutely despise needles. Hate shots with a passion. However, its been exhibited that vaccines actually do help prevent disease. So, though I hate shots, I tend to get certain vaccines. Their claims are grounded in reality, thus I dont tell my doctor that she's spittin that ol bullshyt. Furthermore, my doctor has exhibited a greater medical understanding than I have as well; it would be disrespectful for me to challenge her on some medical shyt. And therefore I dont.

.

No, you're misunderstanding. People are often so consumed with "winning" the argument or getting their point across or continously expressing their view or shutting down theists that they ignore the way in which they do it. Ciroq who was complaining that "I just think y'all want us to be silenced" combined with your post proves that point. You're so concerned with your perspective that you're not even comprehending what I mean by disrespectful. You think I mean disrespectful as in, imposing one's view on others. I mean posts and threads purposefully meant to incite anger as opposed to genuine discussion.

Even if whatever what someone says is factually based, the goal, or substantially predictable effect of such statements, is often to downplay and clown other people's beliefs, not to have a discussion. It has nothing to do with the substance of your statements, it is the way they are delivered. Now obviously theists on here do it. Which brings me back to what I said before, I just don't see the point in it all. Sometimes it seems like jokes, but a more often than not it seems like you're taking turns making each other angrier.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

No, you're misunderstanding. People are often so consumed with "winning" the argument or getting their point across or continously expressing their view or shutting down theists that they ignore the way in which they do it. Ciroq who was complaining that "I just think y'all want us to be silenced" combined with your post proves that point. You're so concerned with your perspective that you're not even comprehending what I mean by disrespectful. You think I mean disrespectful as in, imposing one's view on others. I mean posts and threads purposefully meant to incite anger as opposed to genuine discussion.

Even if whatever what someone says is factually based, the goal, or substantially predictable effect of such statements, is often to downplay and clown other people's beliefs, not to have a discussion. It has nothing to do with the substance of your statements, it is the way they are delivered. Now obviously theists on here do it. Which brings me back to what I said before, I just don't see the point in it all. Sometimes it seems like jokes, but a more often than not it seems like you're taking turns making each other angrier.

It can indeed be a frustrating discussion. I am not misunderstanding what youre saying, I am asking you WHY we should be respectful of a god and book that has demanded the murder and rape of children among other things? Furthermore, why should I be respectful of someone who makes excuses for such demands? Nowhere else is it expected of us to respect such things, except in religion. Those who dont believe see no reason to treat religion with kid gloves.

I'm sure you saw the thread about the rabbi sucking baby penises. Why do you feel I should address that with respect? Why do you feel I should show respect to someone justifying that disgusting act, which by the way is giving these infants herpes?

Some ideas just need to be flat out rejected with no fukcs given as to how people feel about it... like the idea of the sun circling the earth. And again, that is unless the validity of the claim can be demonstrated. At that point, I have no qualms about A) Apologizing for being wrong, and B) Apologizing for being so brazen in my opposition. Our ridicule is hardly comparable to what Galileo and Darwin endured at the hands of the church.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

But at the end of the day, I don't think we ever fully vanquish anything, at least not in the course of a few lifetimes. We just try our best to keep it quarantined.

To the complaints of disrespect though, there is some merit to it and you guys know it. People got mad at me the other day for saying "you know how they are," but I was speaking directly to that reality. If you have regulars in here like me and BrokeWave who recognize it then it's probably happening. It's just that people are so sure in their stance and feel this greater comfort expressing these views online that they disregard any filter and become the only equivalent to what they profess to hating offline.

This is true, but you can literally say that about peoples' viewpoints on anything here and on the internet in general. All these dudes don't do all that cussing out and disrespect of black women and half the other shyt said on this site offline. The issue there is trolling and being bombastic online, and keeping it real, that's generally what this site is about. The whole TLR is about that..

I mean, I literally went a year without getting involved in any religion threads and I never did on the , if you reach a point where I think you're overgeneralizing and being offensive, you probably are. I can't really co-sign this victim mentality and hide your hands this @ciroq drobama is doing in here. You may not do it personally homie, but it happens.[/B][/COLOR][/FONT]

How is ciroq drobama throwing stones and hiding his hand? I don't get it. The initial discussion was about different hindrances nonreligious black folks in their real world experiences. I don't see how he was showing a victim mentality. He was talking about offline. I don't give a shyt what people say about atheists here, and I don't think he does either.