Religion/Spirituality Atheism and the black community...good read

[Blackking]

I'm basing it on THE BIBLE, not any groups actions. I just see in their actions what I see in the bible and it confirms my opinions. Truthfully they cant even decide who is and who isnt a Christian... Different groups will tell you other groups arent "True Christians" while that group says the same about the other. it was always non-sense to me once I got to the point where I was thinking critically.

I have a understanding of Christianity being one for 20 years or so (I was skeptical in my early-mid teens, by 20 I was like ) ... I been in several denominations, read different versions of the bible, had Jehovah's Witness friends, Catholic friends, several different denominations of protestant friends. My understanding of it is what makes me reject it.

You're right..

 

[intilectual recipricol]

.................... Just to be clear... Christianity doesn't state to not hold yourself accountable for your actions. You were born a human knowing nothing of Christianity, so even if it did say that, you can't use that as an excuse to not be accountable; and if you aren't accountable you can't blame a belief system - your an adult, grow up.

Christianity actually says in over 15 book in the bible to be accountable... and also to help others take accountability. Being forgiven, isn't the same as Don't strive to be righteous, and never hold you or your people accountable. Forgiveness is rooted in acceptance and you should accept everyone for who they are and forgive even the most horrible things. The Bible says nothing about forgetting, or nothing about not being held accountable. Just look up some verses.

So, according to Christianity if I am a serial killer and on my deathbed I "accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior" am I going to heaven or hell? If I am a non-believer and I help the poor and elderly, never killed anyone, take care of my family, but I just dont believe this nicca Jesus even existed let alone is a God that offers life after death, am I going to heaven or hell?

And how do your answers support the notion that Christianity teaches accountability?

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

So, according to Christianity if I am a serial killer and on my deathbed I "accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior" am I going to heaven or hell? If I am a non-believer and I help the poor and elderly, never killed anyone, take care of my family, but I just dont believe this nicca Jesus even existed let alone is a God that offers life after death, am I going to heaven or hell?

And how do your answers support the notion that Christianity teaches accountability?

How would a serial killer who was an atheist account for his actions?

 

[Blackking]

So, according to Christianity if I am a serial killer and on my deathbed I "accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior" am I going to heaven or hell? If I am a non-believer and I help the poor and elderly, never killed anyone, take care of my family, but I just dont believe this nicca Jesus even existed let alone is a God that offers life after death, am I going to heaven or hell?

And how do your answers support the notion that Christianity teaches accountability?

lol, I smiled when I read this... because you're examples were actually good.

I used to be married.. It was painful at times because she was hard core Christian,,, and her father was even more hard core, down w this fake ass scam artist preacher (imo). Apparently the answer to your question is ---- literally the MOST illogical thing that has been stated in the history of our time as a species on Earth. "We naturally know of God and naturally are born with the feeling of his existence, furthermore, everyone has an opportunity to accept Jesus Christ regardless of location or culture." " So basically a lil girl in North Korea or Afghanistan is wrong for not accepting Jesus and will burn in hell.

I was agnostic at the time, so I was like And I was accused of being "confrontational" .

My mind is that of a Muslim now... so I can only answer in the way that I know how. The worst person is a hypocrite, not a sinner and Not an atheist. The worst people are people who feel and know of a creator and still act a certain way or ignore their faith. An atheist can be the most righteous and helpful person alive..and there is a spot in heaven for them- Islam is all about peace and good deeds.

You don't have to accept Jesus as a God or anything like that to learn the lessons and principles from his life. Learning from it Obviously wont hurt you, considering many of the things we already accept as correct or moral has came from religion anyway.

But Christianity still holds you accountable whether you believe or not. Christians will still go to hell. Christians will still be considered evil people for committing evil acts..

 

[Ohene]

cuz shyt, being a young black dude now, if u proclaim your atheism, some WHORES wont fukk with u, and your homies, may distance themselves. u pretty much gotta PAWG, and be 'diverse', but that breh couldnt PAWG, few homies probably.

You speak the truth brother. Back in highschool when I said this my nikkas couldnt believe it. One went so far to question if I was actually some sort of demon and said my stanning of Jay-Z confirmed it. This was mainly when the illuminati shyt was popping off too and when I told him how D'Evils was an amazing song you know that started shyt.

Fast forward and he has seen the light. He hasnt renounced his faith in God but merely Catholicism. It took a scandal with priest molestation (priest molested his own daughters ) at his church to point him in our direction but he is here now and that's whats important. On top of that, me and him hit up that Watch the Throne concert in 2011

 

[intilectual recipricol]

How would a serial killer who was an atheist account for his actions?

Account?

I think youre asking me what the rationalization would be for an atheists behavior since he doesnt think he has a get out of hell free card in "accepting Jesus."

If so, my answer is:

The dude is a sociopath. But atheism, the lack of theism, doesnt propose a way of life or a set of values, it doesnt claim to answer any questions about the person other than that they dont believe in a god. Its a tad bit different (and by tad bit I really mean huge) than non-sociopaths shooting up abortion clinics because they think their god told them to.

Hopefully the courts force them both to be accountable whether or not they accepted Jesus.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Account?

I think youre asking me what the rationalization would be for an atheists behavior since he doesnt think he has a get out of hell free card in "accepting Jesus."

If so, my answer is:

The dude is a sociopath. But atheism, the lack of theism, doesnt propose a way of life or a set of values, it doesnt claim to answer any questions about the person other than that they dont believe in a god. Its a tad bit different (and by tad bit I really mean huge) than non-sociopaths shooting up abortion clinics because they think their god told them to.

Hopefully the courts force them both to be accountable whether or not they accepted Jesus.

But this doesn't explain the difference in accountability between a christian killer and an atheist one...

I'm trying to see the difference in the measures that an atheist would take to be accountable for his\her actions as opposed to a christian

 

[intilectual recipricol]

lol, I smiled when I read this... because you're examples were actually good.

I used to be married.. It was painful at times because she was hard core Christian,,, and her father was even more hard core, down w this fake ass scam artist preacher (imo). Apparently the answer to your question is ---- literally the MOST illogical thing that has been stated in the history of our time as a species on Earth. "We naturally know of God and naturally are born with the feeling of his existence, furthermore, everyone has an opportunity to accept Jesus Christ regardless of location or culture." " So basically a lil girl in North Korea or Afghanistan is wrong for not accepting Jesus and will burn in hell.

I was agnostic at the time, so I was like And I was accused of being "confrontational" .

My mind is that of a Muslim now... so I can only answer in the way that I know how. The worst person is a hypocrite, not a sinner and Not an atheist. The worst people are people who feel and know of a creator and still act a certain way or ignore their faith. An atheist can be the most righteous and helpful person alive..and there is a spot in heaven for them- Islam is all about peace and good deeds.

You don't have to accept Jesus as a God or anything like that to learn the lessons and principles from his life. Learning from it Obviously wont hurt you, considering many of the things we already accept as correct or moral has came from religion anyway.

But Christianity still holds you accountable whether you believe or not. Christians will still go to hell. Christians will still be considered evil people for committing evil acts..

Well, I havent read enough of the Quran nor have I been entrenched deeply enough into Islamic culture to make any statements. I borrowed an english translation Quran from my homie when I was in HS that I think my mom tossed while I was away at college cuz I cant find that joint anywhere. I read enough to see that it claims Jesus never claimed to be God, which I was able to confirm with my bible, so for that I thank Islam. However I do know a lot of whats in there is along the lines of the OT. Honor killings and what not mayne? Not eatin pork and drinkin Hennessey aint what I'm about... I'm more of a Proverbs 31 guy

As for Christianity, I'll answer those questions for you: The serial killer that accepts Jesus on his deathbed goes to heaven, the atheist that does the noble things of taking care of the poor and elderly spends eternity on yahweh's skewer.

And that doesnt teach accountability. They can talk all they want about accountability (which I have yet to hear myself, it had always been about forgiveness... the only unforgivable sin is apostasy)

The theology you just stated is surely better, but I'd have to read and learn for myself if that is Islamic belief. And then even if it were that doesnt validify its claims. It would make it more palatable though.

 

[No1]

I know I don't exactly comment much in this forum, but I had to come back for this.

@VictorVonDoom, I'm very glad that you made this thread, and I'm also very glad that there are people on the board willing to maturely discuss the subject, rather than immediately polarize themselves and resort to strawmen and ad hominem attacks.

The bolded is a rarity. But I like this thread. I'll say this, one of my close friends has a story pretty much like yours and that's why I dapped your post. One of my cousin's too. I'm pretty much the only person that stood by them. Like @OG_StankBrefs is the homie, I couldn't care less about his "lack of belief" (as long as he stops posting up certain images ) I also appreciate that you didn't devolve into what leads to a lot of the religious fights on here (referring to all religious people as completely stupid...like I always say, when you go to that extent, you alienate people that in some cases are your natural allies on 90% of issues).

Aside from that, I think a lot of people operate on the idea that being opposed to the church and what it does to people, means that one cannot be Christian. I grew apart from organized religion at the exact same age you became atheist, for many of the same reasons. The only reason I ever attend church (and it's like 6 or 7 times a year) is because my congregation was the exception, not the rule. It wasn't rigid, and every question I ever asked was thought about carefully and answered earnestly. "Are all my Buddhist friends going to hell then?" "We don't buy people living to be hundreds of years old at point." "So you're saying, that if God did not say it was wrong, that murder and rape would be okay?" "No, look at divine command theory." Etcetera.

Everything we questioned during confirmation, was treated with respect and at times elders in the church were like "we agree or I don't know how to explain it either." If there was anything my church fostered beneath the service, it was liberalism. But on the same token, I didn't grow up in the Black Church. I was there frequently enough, but I didn't grow up in one. My church was very diverse and it seems that those most affected by the most negative impacts of that institution did grow up in the traditional black church. So I can imagine how people who had their questions repressed and were not allowed to find their own feeling of God, or what God means to them or who chose to not even be a part of the Church at all anymore (and some people did), could become so jaded. But the people at my church with us on confirmation were very smart people, highly educated and in good professions that often involved a lot of science. I never had to choose between something like science and religion for example. Some of my friends think I'm not really religious as opposed to spiritual or a believer or whatever else because strict adherence to the literal terms of any Holy Text would require me to act differently. I don't know if I agree with their view, but I understand it.

But I don't see religion as being something that will hold my generation back. I think that by and large, people have adapted it to contemporary society, and its the remnants of the past that are the issue. No matter the denomination, the youth are more progressive than their parents. That trend will only continue among theists and atheists alike.

You haven't been around for the that span where religion threads took up one third of the page. But now, I suppose I understand these people. This whole thread reads like atheists anonymous. And maybe that's why on the outside looking in when, as mods (all of us collectively) thought people were obsessed, I suppose we were being short-sighted to a degree. Maybe, we didn't see the profound impact or effect it has had on the lives of so many of you. It's because I have so many friends that are "culturally Jewish" or "culturally Christian" but don't really believe in the tenets of their religions that heavy, and they seldom express this feeling of repression for just going through the motions and enjoying the time with their families during religious holidays or certain ceremonies and then just going on with their lives. I guess somewhere in there I forgot why I don't enjoy going to many other people's congregations.

There are things in this thread, that I think are overgeneralizations and in some cases just plain wrong but there's no need to go debate that stuff. I get you guys now. I just wish that people didn't feel that being atheist made them superior and that it made them "real" or something to go around trashing other people for believing or making threads for the sole basis of ridicule. I wouldn't do it to someone for their religious or non-religious beliefs and I think that respect should be mutual.

BTW guy, you just post in here again, I always felt our back and forths were the most interesting thing to me.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

But this doesn't explain the difference in accountability between a christian killer and an atheist one...

I'm trying to see the difference in the measures that an atheist would take to be accountable for his\her actions as opposed to a christian

Accountability isnt an action @VictorVonDoom explained that already. The main tenet in Christianity is non-accountability, that is they believe another person has died in their place for what they have done. If you "accept" that you are shirking accountability. An atheist doesnt have that because they dont believe in Jesus... I suppose it could be expressed if someone else was willing to literally die for the atheist's crimes and he/she accepted the offer. I know of no instance where someone offered to die in place of a serial killer........except apparently Jesus.

I, for one, say here publicly if all this Jesus talk turns out to be true, I still dont accept his offer of death in my place, nor do I accept responsibility for the whole fruit thing that everyone else is going to hell for, rather I choose to be judged on my own actions... not whether I was able to trick myself into believing an unbelievable story.

 

[FlimFlam]

the antagonism is corny

black people have among the most unique religious experience in the west

for years. Christians, Muslims (noi and 'orthodox'), & Hebrews lived side to side w/o religious turmoil and strife and even a sense of synergy at one point

if atheism is so great for blacks, get ur weight up and produce tangible productive fruits and folks will fukk w/ you. simple as that. anything less than that is just meaningless internet garble & charades

no need for the condescension & jabs. we have been through too much already w/ our rich religious diversity not being such a dividing factor for us. no need to introduce such a chasm THIS late in the game. that would NOT be progression

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

the antagonism is corny

black people have among the most unique religious experience in the west

for years. Christians, Muslims (noi and 'orthodox'), & Hebrews lived side to side w/o religious turmoil and strife and even a sense of synergy at one point

if atheism is so great for blacks, get ur weight up and produce tangible productive fruits and folks will fukk w/ you. simple as that. anything less than that is just meaningless internet garble & charades

no need for the condescension & jabs. we have been through too much already w/ our rich religious diversity not being such a dividing factor for us. no need to introduce such a chasm THIS late in the game. that would NOT be progression

This entire post turns reality on its head by implying that black atheists/agnostics are the ones "introducing a chasm" and being confrontational and antagonistic, as opposed to the truth that atheists/agnostics within the black community often face rejection and ostracism. There has to be a critique and examination of that and why it is that way.

The black atheists/agnostics are like Common bruh...they just want to be.

 

[FlimFlam]

This entire post turns reality on its head by implying that black atheists/agnostics are the ones "introducing a chasm" and being confrontational and antagonistic, as opposed to the truth that atheists/agnostics within the black community often face rejection ostracism. There has to be a critique and examination of that and why it is that way.

The black atheists/agnostics are like Common bruh...they just want to be.

thing is, this is an internet phenomenon

i really cant take these debates too seriously. atheists are like unicorns in the real world (we all have to get offline SOMETIME) but every 3rd or 4th person is a devout born again nonbelieveer on the internet? that shyt is fake and corny, like the internet in general jus sayin

until reality catches up w/ the internet id say the critiques and examinations can hold off. cause at this point i dont see it as a legit issue blacks need to takle

 

[GMOGMediaTV]

Great read. It is always insightful to hear and understand the concepts of other peoples believes and ideologies.

I myself of Christian Faith scolded the King James bible and wanted to know the original Hewbrew version of it And i am also encouraging some of my Christian brethren to look deeper into Theology and the history of there ancestry.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

thing is, this is an internet phenomenon

i really cant take these debates too seriously. atheists are like unicorns in the real world (we all have to get offline SOMETIME) but every 3rd or 4th person is a devout born again nonbelieveer on the internet? that shyt is fake and corny, like the internet in general jus sayin

until reality catches up w/ the internet id say the critiques and examinations can hold off. cause at this point i dont see it as a legit issue blacks need to takle

So what are you saying? Because there's not enough atheists in the black community, fukk em? About 11% of black people are nonreligious. If the number reaches say 20% or 30%, would it then be serious enough tackle?

Majoritarianism isn't something any group should embrace.