fifth column
Superstar
Or this much load management
At this point, its getting hard to deny LeBron is the best to ever pickup a Basketball
- Thread starter Snake316
- Start date
fifth column
Superstar
Magic played a major role in his championship success so they kinda get equal credit
shyt like that is bizarre because you're comparing apples and oranges. How many times did Russell get outscored in a playoff series? How many times did Magic get outscored in a playoff series? Meanwhile, Iverson was rarely ever outscored in a playoff series, does that make him the GOAT?
MJ was obsessively focused on scoring. He wanted to score almost as much as he wanted to win. LeBron is a natural distributor who happens to score because that's what his team needs and what he's good at. He's never been as single-mindedly focused on scoring and MJ is.
Also, MJ played in a man era, where you couldn't shift the entire defense against one player. He said himself that if he had to play against zones, he never would have had the career he did (just look at how easily zones hemmed him up in the ACC and NCAA tourneys). While Bron has played most of his career against zones that was completely focused on stopping him from scoring.
MJ never faced defensive sets like these without getting illegal defense called:
MJ said himself, he never averages 30ppg if teams could guard him like that.
IF ZONE DEFENSES COME IN, STARS MAY GO OUT
Even Michael Jordan Thought Michael Jordan Would Struggle Against Modern Zone Defense
MJ on rule changes: "If teams were able to play zone defenses, I never would've had the career I had."
So you’re just going to conveniently ignore that MJ played in an era with no spacing and teams barely shot 3s
Of course zone would be detrimental in that environment. That doesn’t mean anything
Nah, I'm just gonna assume you're trolling.
In the halfcourt offense Kareem operated almost exclusively back-to-the-basket, within 12 feet of the hoop, and required other players to get him the ball. He "could" shoot the 15-18 foot midrange jumper, but not often and he wasn't efficient at it. Watch games from that era, he only shoots outside of 15 feet when he was left open, and even then only reluctantly.
Kareem's faceup game was almost nonexistent. His outside game was almost nonexistent. His layup package was mid, not bad but nothing special. His ballhandling was average for a center, poor for any other player. He was a good passer for a center, but not compared to good forwards much less guards. He was solid on the fast break. Where he excelled was in the post, where he had a great range of moves in addition to extreme accuracy with those moves, which combined with his 7'2" height made him deadly there. But he didn't even have the range of post bag that some of the guys after him (McHale, Hakeem, Duncan) developed.
Claiming that Kareem has a "much bigger bag" than Bron based solely off of post moves (much of which Bron also has, but doesn't use cause he's not 7'2" and this isn't the man era) is fukking wild.
So you’re just going to conveniently ignore that MJ played in an era with no spacing and teams barely shot 3s
"Barely shot threes" is an exaggeration, at least in MJ's title years. After 1991, Jordan's Finals squads made on average 4-7 threes/game. That's not all that much less than LBJ's squads' 5-9 averages in his first decade of Finals apperances.
1992 Finals: Bulls averaged 4.2 threes/game
1993 Finals: Bulls averaged 5.3 threes/game
1996 Finals: Bulls averaged 6 threes/game
1997 Finals: Bulls averaged 6.5 threes/game
1998 Finals: Bulls averaged 4.3 threes/game
2007 Finals: Cavs averaged 5.5 threes/game
2011 Finals: Heat averaged 7.4 threes/game
2012 Finals: Heat averaged 8.3 threes/game
2013 Finals: Heat averaged 9.1 threes/game
2014 Finals: Heat averaged 9.2 threes/game
2015 Finals: Cavs averaged 8.2 threes/game
2016 Finals: Cavs averaged 8.0 threes/game
1997 Finals was the Bulls' peak - Pippen hit 12 threes, Kukoc hit 10 threes, MJ hit 8 threes, Kerr hit 4 threes, Harper hit 3 threes, and...Rodman hit a three. They could put 4 shooters on the court, that is plenty spacing especially against man defense.
In the 2007 Finals, no Cav hit more than 6 threes. In 2011, Chalmers hit 14, but no one else had more than 7. In 2012, Battier hit 15, but no one else had more than 8. In 2013, no one on the team hit more than 13 threes. In 2014, no one other than Bron hit more than 10. In 2015, JR had 15 threes and no one else other than Bron had more than 8.
It wasn't until 2017 that Bron's teams were really airing it out from 3pt range.
LeBron played plenty of years where his teammates couldn't shoot threes for shyt AND the zone was legal. That's how you get defenses like these.
So then admit you're comparing apples to oranges, like I said.
Comparing MJ's scoring totals to Bron's is just silly. Bron would fukking decimate a man defense with illegal defense rules, have the center set the screen and nobody is gonna get to the rim before he does.
And though the Bulls had plenty of 3pt shooting between Armstrong, Paxson, Pippen, Jordan, Kukoc, and Kerr, you didn't need 3pt shooting to get spacing in the 1990s. Illegal defense rules meant that defenders had to commit to their player whether he could shoot or not.
MJ can ask for the clearout against Muggsy and get it whether or not he has shooters on the court.
fifth column
Superstar
Where was Lebron’s orchestrated defense against Wemby and the 18 game losing streak?
Lakers were missing three starters including the two best defenders in the starting lineup, and Hayes/Christie played like fukking trash. Can't orchestrate a team defense with no team.
Unlike you, I DO think that missing AD matters. I never said AD was trash or that missing him doesn't hurt. You're the one who claims LeBron is trash on defense, then can't explain why the team is so much worse when he's not on the court.
fifth column
Superstar
AD and Vando are the only 2 Lakers that are worth talking about when it comes to defense on that team. Ya mans is lazy unless he’s gambling for a stealLakers were missing three starters including the two best defenders in the starting lineup, and Hayes/Christie played like fukking trash. Can't orchestrate a team defense with no team.
Unlike you, I DO think that missing AD matters. I never said AD was trash or that missing him doesn't hurt. You're the one who claims LeBron is trash on defense, then can't explain why the team is so much worse when he's not on the court.
Yet the Lakers' defense is 5 points better when Bron is on the court than when he's off it, and....
fifth column
Superstar
One day you gonna stop looking at your spreadsheet and look up at the basketball game being played, until thenYet the Lakers' defense is 5 points better when Bron is on the court than when he's off it, and....
You really think the vast majority of nikkas actually watch basketball or are informed in any way at all on the topics they post about?Yet the Lakers' defense is 5 points better when Bron is on the court than when he's off it, and....
Seems like lakers defense is food when AD isn’t playing. You were negative about spurs dropping 119 on lakers without bron. But they just turned around and put 129 on them without ad and with bron.
Sure cam reddish didn’t play 24 minutes. But dangelo’s negative defense didn’t play either.
nikkas talk like bron played against the Harlem globetrotters
Lol this aged like shyt
Greenhornet
A God Among Kings
yall gotta just let these people enjoy what they enjoy and let them die out like all the other fans did already
just from basketball eye test... people should know Lebron isnt the best or even close. Dude is a master of none and just good at alot... he doesnt even have the killer instinct or heart to close shyt out. Without longevity and the keys to the car since the door opened... he wouldnt even be talked about in these cases. He is still amazing and a legend but he's not even the best at any given thing at all besides longevity. His shooting sucks, his post game sucks, his handle is suspect, his defense is good but not top 10, his free throw percentage sucks, his deflection is a problem and cancels out most discussion, his teams have usually been stacked through the bench, this the same dude who tampered in the middle of a season to go sit behind the Knicks bench (while his team was playing without him) to go steal Shump and JR. Like Shaq, dude is just a physically gifted human with things you cant train. But unlike Shaq, he has to actually play the entire floor and be good at everything.... and he is. It speaks to how amazing and level minded Lebron is, but he's not a killer or the best at any category. This is the same dude who ran from a dunk contest for over 10 years against absolute fukking bums.
just from basketball eye test... people should know Lebron isnt the best or even close. Dude is a master of none and just good at alot... he doesnt even have the killer instinct or heart to close shyt out. Without longevity and the keys to the car since the door opened... he wouldnt even be talked about in these cases. He is still amazing and a legend but he's not even the best at any given thing at all besides longevity. His shooting sucks, his post game sucks, his handle is suspect, his defense is good but not top 10, his free throw percentage sucks, his deflection is a problem and cancels out most discussion, his teams have usually been stacked through the bench, this the same dude who tampered in the middle of a season to go sit behind the Knicks bench (while his team was playing without him) to go steal Shump and JR. Like Shaq, dude is just a physically gifted human with things you cant train. But unlike Shaq, he has to actually play the entire floor and be good at everything.... and he is. It speaks to how amazing and level minded Lebron is, but he's not a killer or the best at any category. This is the same dude who ran from a dunk contest for over 10 years against absolute fukking bums.