At this point, its getting hard to deny LeBron is the best to ever pickup a Basketball

[fifth column]

Along with claiming MJ is a better passer than LBJ, this is the other stupidest thing you've said in this thread. And that's a high bar.

Bron has led top-3 defenses on three different franchises. If you can't see how well he uses his defensive bball IQ to orchastrate the defense, fill in the lanes, switch anything, and adjust responsibilities to close weaknesses, that's on you. He has a strong case as the best non-big team defender in the zone era.

I never said Lebron wasn’t a better passer, I replied cap as in more nuance is needed. Lebron is a better playmaker than MJ because he sees more of the floor in his style of play.

I don’t need to take personal shots at you Bron stans when I post something, that’s irrelevant to the topic, but do you breh

 

[fifth column]

good to see the good old folks of the coli still going at it.

idk how y'all do it lol

You ever watch a TV show and immediately after start searching for similar shyt to watch? That’s human beings

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I don’t need to take personal shots at you Bron stans when I post something

You don't take personal shots? This is just from the last hour of this conversation.

I was setting up something for the emotional Le-stans

Relax breh, you get a little erratic when it comes to the MJ/Lebron thing.

Go back to your spreadsheets with cherry picked numbers, I don’t think this style works for you.

Not only ignorant on bball matters, you're delusional too.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lebron is a better playmaker than MJ because he sees more of the floor in his style of play.

Bron is a better playmaker than MJ from every position on the floor possible. From the top of the court, swinging it around the elbow, out of the post, off of the drive, on the fast break, there literally is not a single possible situation where LeBron is not a dramatically better passer than MJ was. MJ was a solid passer who had a high bball IQ and could take advantage of his gravity well. Bron is one of the greatest passers in NBA history.

 

[Everythingg]

Lebron is a better at:

3pt shooting
Rebounding
Passing
Court vision
Team defense (like Phil said, MJ gambled too much)
Defense on bigs
Defense on point guards

Nope. MJ is the better defender. Lebron never averaged 3 steals a game or over 1.5 blocks a game and Jordan did it in the same season while also putting up 37 and 35 pts a game. That means he did it twice while also scoring at a level Lebron never has. And you splitting SGs from PGs when it comes to defense is also cap when Jordan is overall the better wing defender. And for their career they’re tied in blocks (despite one being 3 or 4 inches shorter) with MJ having more steals at over 2.

Lebron has never averaged less than 3 turnovers a game either so how is he a better passer? Because he averages more assists when he only plays in offenses where he has to control everything? I can show passes that MJ made that Lebron hasn’t. Can you do the same the other way around?

Jordan is better at:

Midrange shooting
Free throws
Ballhandling
Defense on shooting guards
Getting steals



I'd say they were about equal at driving and finishing, though MJ's ability to drive declined severely in his second run and was gone entirely in his third run, while LeBron maintains his even through age and injury. They're also about equal in post play (outside of midrange shots), though MJ used his far more than LBJ did because he played in a man defense era.

MJ had a better and more consistent post game despite being lighter and shorter. Better footwork as well. You’re just downgrading his ability his ability to big up Bron. And Bron being 6’9 260, is the reason he’s still finishing. He’s beating people playing bully ball not because of his footwork or moves. When Jordan slowed down he started beating people with his footwork

And the most important thing is that Jordan accomplished more than Bron has in a less amount of time. And he didn’t have to organize every team he was on to match his strengths by team hopping to play with other top 5 (at their position) players. He’s better

 

[Everythingg]

...

LeBron actually won 3 championships in a 5-year stretch, that's dynastic. He actually won 4 championships in a 9-year stretch, that's dynastic. He won the 3 titles with 2 different teams, the 4 titles with 3 different teams. Whether you agree with him "switching teams" is inconsequential, your opinion isn't relevant to the results on the board...

How Is this a flex when he team hopped to play with other top 5 players to do so? He team hopped to teams that were built to fit his strengths and still couldn’t catch MJ. But win the in season tournament and he posts this on IG:

He spent his whole career chasing MJ and failed in every way other than longevity…

 

[Everythingg]

Passing

Averaging more assists doesn’t make you the better passer

 

[Gotright]

No one who denies that LeBron is a better passer than MJ is even trying to look serious.

Averaging more assists doesn’t make you the better passer

 

[Everythingg]

To you Jordan is a better passer because he averages more assists. That’s why you can’t quantify it

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Nope. MJ is the better defender. Lebron never averaged 3 steals a game or over 1.5 blocks a game and Jordan did it in the same season while also putting up 37 and 35 pts a game. That means he did it twice while ancoring ant a level Lebron never has. And you splitting SGs from PGs when it comes to defense is also cap when Jordan is overall the better wing defender. And for their career they’re tied in blocks (despite one being 3 or 4 inches shorter) with MJ having more steals at over 2.

Lebron has never averaged less than 3 turnovers a game either so how is he a better passer? Because he averages more assists when he only plays in offenses where he has to control everything? I can show passes that MJ made that Lebron hasn’t. Can you do the same the other way around?


MJ had a better and more consistent post game despite being lighter and shorter. Better footwork as well. You’re just downgrading his ability his ability to big up Bron. And Bron being 6’9 260, is the reason he’s still finishing. He’s beating people playing bully ball not because of his footwork or moves. When Jordan slowed down he started beating people with his footwork

And the most important thing is that Jordan accomplished more than Bron has in a less amount of time. And he didn’t have to organize every team he was on to match his strengths by team hopping to play with other top 5 (at their position) players. He’s better

Breh, it's been 20 years since people stopped thinking block/steal #'s define great defense. MJ gambled like crazy on defense, so he put up #'s, but Phil Jackson literally told him to stop gambling so much because it was leaving guys open and hurting the team. If you get 2 steals in a game but lose your man for an easy score 4 times, you haven't made a net positive.

I can show passes that MJ made that Lebron hasn’t. Can you do the same the other way around?

That can't be a real comment.





Show me Jordan (fukk, show me ANYONE in league history) making this pass to the corner three:

No look, does a 180 and switches to the left hand in mid air, behind the back over the shoulder while spinning, and hits DG all the way across the court perfectly in his pocket.





Here's another one I'd love for you to find the MJ equivilent of:





This pass has been made exactly once in NBA history:





Different kind of defy physics...it doesn't seem like it should be possible to change the direction of the ball that much in that little time and get it there with that much accuracy:






A few others

 

[Professor Emeritus]

To you Jordan is a better passer because he averages more assists. That’s why you can’t quantify it

No, LeBron is a better passer because he's better at literally every aspect of passing possible. He's better on the break, in the halfcourt, out of the post, from the top of the key, on the touch passes, off the drive. He sees the court better, has a bigger repertoire, has more creativity, throws it more accurately, makes better decisions to get the highest-% basket, is more willing to find the open man, AND he averages more assists than MJ does. He can easily make every pass MJ has ever made and dozens of passes that MJ never made.

What do you mean I can't "quantify" it? If you want to "quantify" it, then Bron has more assists, averages more assists per game, has a better assist-to-turnover ratio, has a higher assist %, and creates more points off of assists. But you don't need to quantify it - no one who has watched basketball and had a clue what they were looking at has ever thought MJ was a better passer than Bron unless they were working with some fukking wild bias.

 

[Everythingg]

Breh, it's been 20 years since people stopped thinking block/steal #'s define great defense. MJ gambled like crazy on defense, so he put up #'s, but Phil Jackson literally told him to stop gambling so much because it was leaving guys open and hurting the team. If you get 2 steals in a game but lose your man for an easy score 4 times, you haven't made a net positive.

So because PJ had that complaint means Lebron was a better defender? (And that’s without you even posting he actually said)

To be able to average 3 steals a game is a feat in itself, let alone do that AND avg 1.5 blocks a game at the same time as a SG. While on the other side still putting up 35 and 37. To have the energy to do all of that in the same season is a feat that hasn’t been matched..

That can't be a real comment.





Show me Jordan (fukk, show me ANYONE in league history) making this pass to the corner three:

No look, does a 180 and switches to the left hand in mid air, behind the back over the shoulder while spinning, and hits DG all the way across the court perfectly in his pocket.





Different kind of defy physics...it doesn't seem like it should be possible to change the direction of the ball that much in that little time and get it there with that much accuracy:





This is one of my favorites because he actually throws the pass before Lonzo moves his leg. He looks to the side to get Lonzo to try to stick his leg out then puts English on it so it goes through the opening and spins to catch the cutter in stride.





A few others

 

[fifth column]

stats: Lebron is the NBA's leading scorer and will end up Top 3 in assists
accolades: lebron has more All NBA first team selections and was robbed off multiple MVPs (Nash, Derrick Rose, Harden)

Lebron played in a much more difficult era

So why is Karl Malone not discussed as the best PF ever or Stockton as the goat pg or even top 10 player if longevity stats were so important? The goat debate is about peak performance. How good was a player when he was in his prime and what impact did he have on his team and the league. Nice try

Lebron went to 8 straight finals and 10 overall but the era is tougher? He basically caked walked through the weak eastern conference and only faced real competition in the finals where he came up short on the regular(4-6). MJ had to battle through the tough and grimy east to get the finals where he closed the deal 6-6 times.

 

[Sunalmighty]

Nope. MJ is the better defender. Lebron never averaged 3 steals a game or over 1.5 blocks a game and Jordan did it in the same season while also putting up 37 and 35 pts a game. That means he did it twice while also scoring at a level Lebron never has. And you splitting SGs from PGs when it comes to defense is also cap when Jordan is overall the better wing defender. And for their career they’re tied in blocks (despite one being 3 or 4 inches shorter) with MJ having more steals at over 2.

Lebron has never averaged less than 3 turnovers a game either so how is he a better passer? Because he averages more assists when he only plays in offenses where he has to control everything? I can show passes that MJ made that Lebron hasn’t. Can you do the same the other way around?


MJ had a better and more consistent post game despite being lighter and shorter. Better footwork as well. You’re just downgrading his ability his ability to big up Bron. And Bron being 6’9 260, is the reason he’s still finishing. He’s beating people playing bully ball not because of his footwork or moves. When Jordan slowed down he started beating people with his footwork

And the most important thing is that Jordan accomplished more than Bron has in a less amount of time. And he didn’t have to organize every team he was on to match his strengths by team hopping to play with other top 5 (at their position) players. He’s better

not to mention the spacing and these coochie ass defenses

 

[fifth column]

He's the best of his era, but then you also got Curry who changed the game as well. Each era has it's greats like Magic, Bird, MJ, Wilt etc.

Curry might mess around and steal this whole era from Lebron