Ariel Sharon dead @ 85

[ill]

as long as you can admit to that than there really isn't an issue.

Both Israelis and Palestinians have committed atrocities. I'll give you that Israels leading in the department though.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Both Israelis and Palestinians have committed atrocities. I'll give you that Israels leading in the department though.

Wont argue with you there. I agree.

 

[BocaRear]

Nope. I never said that.

Also, the vast vast majority of Arabs were not forcibly expelled.



Except for the fact that Europeans account for less than half of Israel's inhabitants.... And those "Europeans" don't have very European DNA...



Yes, a detention center for illegal immigrants. We have one of those int he U.S. too.



If you're asking "what about this" the answer is your lack of understanding of medical ethics. Ethiopians didn't "consent" because they didn't understand Hebrew, and therefore their nodding doesn't count as consent. It does not mean they were given it by force.

Furthermore, as I said, 50% of Israel's Jews are Middle Eastern. You really don't seem to know anything about the geopolitics of the Middle East.

They're european CAC jews,

You're trying to play off everything I say by acting holier than thou, you zionists love to distort the facts to make them seem less horrible than they are

The state of israel is a bullshyt concept and always will be,

 

[BocaRear]

People with a 5000 year history in that region have a much greater claim to that land than 'Palestinians' that have been there for 200-300 years.

Arabs are some of, if not the most, racist people in the world.

US is also sterilizing black women. Wheres your outrage? http://www.thecoli.com/threads/thousands-of-black-women-forcibly-sterilized-by-the-usa.180321/page-3
FYI, I do think this is a fukked up situation in both countries. Can't stan this kind of behavior either way.

Anyone trying to rationalize Palestinian "rights" is a joke. They are nomads. They aren't an official country. Jerusalem, Haffa, and most other cities in Israel have changed hands a LOT of times over history. These 'Palestinians' that you speak of weren't the first ones there. They just happened to be the last ones there when Israel was formed.

A 5000 year history huh?

last time I checked they were looking a little CACy to me,

and so it's okay that israel's sterilizing black people because the US does it?

Come off that shyt,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

If someone forced you out of your home and they had an alleged former "history" with the land, it's okay right?

 

[Techniec]

People with a 5000 year history in that region have a much greater claim to that land than 'Palestinians' that have been there for 200-300 years.

Arabs are some of, if not the most, racist people in the world.

US is also sterilizing black women. Wheres your outrage? http://www.thecoli.com/threads/thousands-of-black-women-forcibly-sterilized-by-the-usa.180321/page-3
FYI, I do think this is a fukked up situation in both countries. Can't stan this kind of behavior either way.

Anyone trying to rationalize Palestinian "rights" is a joke. They are nomads. They aren't an official country. Jerusalem, Haffa, and most other cities in Israel have changed hands a LOT of times over history. These 'Palestinians' that you speak of weren't the first ones there. They just happened to be the last ones there when Israel was formed.

The nerve of a Jew to call anyone a nomad. I have really seen it all on this forum

The historical argument for a greater Jewish claim to the land is absolute garbage, considering

a- the Jews werent the first people living there
b- alot of the biblical stories, ie exodus, were just that...stories
c- levantine arabs and middle eastern jews share many commonalities and admixtures, genetically speaking.

In fact, when we strip this argument down to the bare facts, the one distinguishing characteristic between certain arabs and jews, is BELIEF.
One BELIEVES something different from the OTHER. Jewish communities share some european characteristics but an overwhelming middle eastern semetic character. Levantine Arabs are mixed with Peninsula Arabs, but also share ancestry with Jews, and even pre jewish populations.

As for "rights", what "rights" are you referring to?

The right to equal citizenship with Jews, who all live under Israeli rule? The fact that this is a "joke" of a right, speaks to the type of scum that you are

Or are we talking about a "right" to statehood? A right the Jews certainly made claim too, but apparently that doesnt apply to the Arabs

Make geopolitical claims based on beliefs bruhs

 

[Techniec]

Except for the fact that the M.E. intelligence the U.S. receives from Israel is already worth more than what the U.S is giving in aid.



No country can sustain itself without trade and relations with other countries. Oh, and the US aid to Israel covers less than 3% of Israel's GDP. Israel can make that up by selling t-shirts at the mall

BTW, here are some questions you forgot to answer:

1) Since Palestinian is also a fake identity, do you withdraw your argument of Israeli being a "fake identity" as a talking point for discrediting Israel?

2) Why do you claim Jews didn't want Israel before the holocaust when the Zionist movement began over half a century before the rise of Nazi Germany?

3) Why do you claim that Israelis are European when 50% of Israel's Jews are actually Middle Eastern, making your generalization about Jews "living it up in Europe" not accurate? Are you aware some of them were even in Israel, Jerusalem specifically, and there was an entire area called The Jewish Quarter due to the Jewish inhabitants consistently through history?

You are killing your own argument. You have absolutely no qualms denying a Palestinians right to exist, or even his sense of identity, to the point where you;ll put Palestinian in quotation marks.

The same logic behind the founding of the state of Israel is the same logic behind the founding of Palestine. If Palestine is a bullshyt artifical construct, then so is Israel. They are both tied to each other.

The second yall called for Israel, Palestine had a right to exist

End of story.

 

[Techniec]

How can some kid from NY have claim to the land he walks on everyday when its really Indian land? The Indians you displaced would like their land back

Hey genius, thanks for equating the Judeo settlers in Palestine with the genocidal white man. Also thank you for showcasing your intelligence by comparing an ongoing contemporary stuggle for statehood with an established genocide that happened centuries ago.

Your stupidity is a welcome relief from TLOLs blatant dishonesty and scumbaggery

 

[Techniec]

Yes. Same reason you can sit here today in NY and not think twice about the displaced Indians is the same reason Israelis don't care or believe its Palestinian land. To the victor goes the spoils.

except for one small tidbit...which is..the native genocide is COMPLETE and happened CENTURIES ago, and is today considered a mark of shame

whereas the Palestinian conflict is ONGOING, happening BEFORE OUR EYES, is happening at a time when such behaviour is considered a barbaric relic of the past.

An American can ignore what happened to the Natives, whats left of them? A fukking Israeli simply has to travel 30 miles and he'll see MILLIONS OF ARABS who are the consequence of what TWO generations of their people did before them

 

[Techniec]

TLOLs bullshyt double speak.,

Israel is a European construct. Zionism was a European movement. Its adherents and ideologues were European jews. Its ideology is born out of the European jewish experience. It was events in Europe that led to its actualization, and it was a European power that gave it the legitimate stamp of approval. Its settlers, founders and leaders were European Jews

The Mizrahi Jewish movements in the 50's and 60's were a result of the founding of Israel and Arab oppression against its Jewish population.

To simply deny this by pointing at population figures today is ziobot level dishonesty, even for you akhee

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Hey genius, thanks for equating the Judeo settlers in Palestine with the genocidal white man. Also thank you for showcasing your intelligence by comparing an ongoing contemporary stuggle for statehood with an established genocide that happened centuries ago.

Your stupidity is a welcome relief from TLOLs blatant dishonesty and scumbaggery

I'l give @Ill props for that honesty though, it at least proves he's not a fukking bot like @TLOL is back.

 

[Kritic]

Wont argue with you there. I agree.

ill is the only devil who agrees to some sh1t. that's why i fuq with him. when i'm burning all jews in the chamber i'll spare him..

 

[TLOL is back]

Most Israelis ARE european and eurasian. You dont know this?

Do u even have Hebrew blood to defend a man like Sharon and the land that should belong to you?
Cuz sharon is European blood but born in Palestine.

..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Jews

Today over 2,500,000 Mizrahi Jews,[56] and Sephardic Jews live in Israel with the majority of them being descendants of the 680,000 Jews who fled Arab countries (<2,500,000), due to expulsions, and antisemitism, with smaller numbers having immigrated from the Islamic Republics of the Former Soviet Union (c.250,000), India (70,000), Iran (200,000–250,000), Turkey (80,000).

Over 2.5million mizrahis + 1.6 million Arabs = Over 4.1 million

Israel's population = Less than 8 million.

Like I said, 99% of people discussing Israel know nothing about Israel.

 

[TLOL is back]

Source that confirms that figure of "10s of billions?"

and anyway anything Israel may accomplish is ultimately financed by the United States. They are our dependent through and through. I mean, you can paint this picture of Israel being this independent nation heroically holding off a bunch of nations that surround it and want to destroy it but we all know that is pure fantasy. The truth of the matter is that Israel needs the United States more than the United States needs Israel. All the current relationship does is undermine our credibility in the region and hamper efforts to build relationships with other countries in the Middle East because of our clear bias which is bought and paid for by interests groups who do Israel's bidding....not to mention it's just another excuse for Islamic extremist groups to incite anger and resentment towards us.

I'm pleased that you used the word "another" and "excuse" demonstrating how weak the argument is. The NSA has more funding than the Mossad will ever have. How come Mossad has more M.E. intelligence? Because Mossad has better tactics, more balls, and more willing to take risks. In other words, what Israel has accomplished cannot be attributed to funding.

You are entitled to believe that Israel needs the US more than the US needs Israel, but that is not the question. The question is the US is better off with or without Israel. You are entitled to believe they're better off without Israel. But its not exactly a "fact" or a "truth." You'd have to be extremely closed minded to dismiss Israel's contributions to the alliance and benefits of having a stable Middle East ally.

Right, because Pro-Israel lobbyists in the United States have no connection at all with Israel

I'm sure they have strong connections with other Israeli groups. As far as being funded by the Israeli government? That is a baseless assumption.

Yeah Arabs may have a lobby, but the different is they aren't working for a particular country's interests the way the Israeli lobby works om behalf of Israel. No foreign nation should be exerting that much influence over our government, period. That's far from irrelevant.

That's hilarious breh. They don't work for a specific country's interests, only on behalf of specific countries interests.

and if Israel could just ditch us for China if they wanted like you were implying either, why is any of this even necessary?

Are you nuts? You think the US wants a competing superpower to have a tighter hold in the Middle East?

Before Israel was founded "Israelis" considered themselves Jews first, and residents of whatever country they lived in second ie; Germans, Poles, Hungarians, etc. They never called themselves Israelis while they were living over there.

Only Israelites which is the same thing conceptually.

[quote[The Palestinians who you maintain don't really "exist" [/quote]

No, I never said this.

were always in that land for the most part, the same genetic analyses you are citing to demonstrate that 50% of Israeli Jews are "middle eastern" show that at least 80-90% of the Palestinian Arabs have been in that part of the world for thousands and thousands of years. So what right do European Jews have to flood the land in mass and declare that their claim to it trumps all others? My logic seems pretty sound, and most of the world agrees. Oh, but I suppose that's because everybody is anti-semetic right?

Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy disregarded. Yes, anti-Semitism is rising globally (fact), but that's irrelevant.

You apparently know nothing about history.

Islamic-Arab conquests lead to Arabs being there in the first place. Then Arabs immigrated en masse in the 1800s, then again in the 1900s. Even Hamas disagrees with you that Palestinians were always there.

Zionists are the ones who sought a homeland for the Jewish people, the fact that there were other candidates aside from Palestine shows that this attachment to Israel that all Jews supposedly have is overblown. If Europeans were generally accepting of Jews they would have never wanted to go anywhere, aside from the religious ones of course.

This again, makes absolutely no sense. They rejected other offers. This is like you asking me for an apple, and I keep offering you a tangerine, and then someone else saying that offering you a tangerine is proof you didn't care about the apple.

[quote[Why can some Jew who was born in Brooklyn, NY and lived there his whole life wake up one day and decide that he wants to go to Israel and automatically have more of a claim to that land than some dusty Arab kid whose bloodline has been over there for at least a millennium? Can you explain that logic to me? It's that kind of thing that makes the whole "Israeli" identity phony to me, and many others.[/quote]

This is the strongest Red Herring in the world. Overall, Israel has to serve as a safe haven for Jews. When Jews are sick of anti-Semitism, they should be able to find a country to escape it.

 

[TLOL is back]

I'l give @Ill props for that honesty though, it at least proves he's not a fukking bot like @TLOL is back.

Do you even know what a bot is?

 

[TLOL is back]

You are killing your own argument. You have absolutely no qualms denying a Palestinians right to exist, or even his sense of identity, to the point where you;ll put Palestinian in quotation marks.

The same logic behind the founding of the state of Israel is the same logic behind the founding of Palestine. If Palestine is a bullshyt artifical construct, then so is Israel. They are both tied to each other.

The second yall called for Israel, Palestine had a right to exist

End of story.

Wrong, it is not the same logic.

Jewish logic = Historical ties.

Arab logic = Oh no, Jews have Middle eastern land! Let's pretend we're different from our neighbors and create a 22nd Arab state!