Are we really “Born in SIN”?

[2 Up 2 Down]

John 20:26-28:

Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

^ Paul didn’t write this.

Not sure why your focus is on Paul and not Jesus if you’re interested in Christianity. Unless you’re a Hebrew Israelite

The gospel of John came after Paul's time, if I'm not mistaken

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

No one is born in sin. Like many things in modern Christianity, it’s a concept that was used to subjugate non-white people by making them think they were inherently bad or lesser than a white man. Your environment, influences and circumstances shape you as a person.

 

[BaggerofTea]

Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

 

[valet]

No one is born in sin. Like many things in modern Christianity, it’s a concept that was used to subjugate non-white people by making them think they were inherently bad or lesser than a white man. Your environment, influences and circumstances shape you as a person.

Does sin exist?

 

[Uitomy]

Being born in sin means you're born with the capability to sin as you grow, it's not a deep concept, it basically is another way to say we aren't perfect. But you know how Christianity does things smh

 

[Uitomy]

Does sin exist?

It does, any antagonistic action taken towards others and self that causes harm is a sin, because ideally we are supposed to support and maintain each other and ourselves

 

[DoubleClutch]

The gospel of John came after Paul's time, if I'm not mistaken

And why does that matter? There are churches established separate of Paul and BEFORE him.

Let’s quote Paul:

and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.
6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,
8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Just because we have writings of Paul dated before John doesn’t mean the writings of John didn’t exist and the content in it didn’t record
what was happening at the time.

Anyone with common sense knows this simple fact:

Paul is a direct result of the Christian movement that happened after Jesus disciples started it,

Paul isn’t the creator of Christianity he is a reaction to it. You can’t understand this?

Regardless of what YOU believe, thats not how history works.

He is a JEW who used to persecute Christians and then converted

Read the Bible, breh.

If you wanna do a deep dive into Paul’s life I can recommend you a good book.

Nonetheless, if you don’t believe the gospels to be true then why would you ever consider being a Christian or even a Muslim

If you’re an Atheist you’d have to explain away JESUS before you even get to Paul.

Both religions depend on JESUS message and the gospels being an accurate reflection of his life and teachings

the foundation of Christian and Muslims beliefs come from what Jesus disciples passed down NOT Paul

No matter your position, you lose if you focus on Paul only.

 

[inndaskKy]

it's refreshing to be off other people's fairytales

in 4th grade, you were taught that greeks were making it all up, right? and you had zero fear of being punished by greek gods? but christianity is real?

Mock fairytales but believe in democracy, brehs

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

And why does that matter? There are churches established separate of Paul and BEFORE him.

Let’s quote Paul:

and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.
6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,
8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Just because we have writings of Paul dated before John doesn’t mean the writings of John didn’t exist and the content in it didn’t record
what was happening at the time.

Anyone with common sense knows this simple fact:

Paul is a direct result of the Christian movement that happened after Jesus disciples started it,

Paul isn’t the creator of Christianity he is a reaction to it. You can’t understand this?

Regardless of what YOU believe, thats not how history works.

He is a JEW who used to persecute Christians and then converted

Read the Bible, breh.

If you wanna do a deep dive into Paul’s life I can recommend you a good book.

Nonetheless, if you don’t believe the gospels to be true then why would you ever consider being a Christian or even a Muslim

If you’re an Atheist you’d have to explain away JESUS before you even get to Paul.

Both religions depend on JESUS message and the gospels being an accurate reflection of his life and teachings

the foundation of Christian and Muslims beliefs come from what Jesus disciples passed down NOT Paul

No matter your position, you lose if you focus on Paul only.

Because it was built off of Paul's letters. The way they know what came first is because they base it from the earliest manuscripts they have and the changes in language over time.
Jesus taught the Torah. He didn't teach as he was a divine figure, that he was God in the flesh

 

[MMS]

@DoubleClutch @Koichos

Hebrew Concordance: miṣ·ṣal·‘ō·ṯāw -- 1 Occurrence

whats the difference between Siday and Shaddai?

Hebrew Concordance: ḥă·sî·ḏāy -- 1 Occurrence

Hebrew Concordance: šad·day -- 28 Occurrences

Is there a difference between Wife and Bow?

Hebrew Concordance: ’iš·tōw -- 66 Occurrences

Hebrew Concordance: qaš·tōw -- 7 Occurrences

are the animals coming to noah not how he (we) expected?

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/can-any-christian-jew-explain-this.984023/page-16#post-49859900

 

[jadillac]

Telling someone they are a lowly sinner CAN become a self fulfilling prophecy. It can lead to low self esteem and mental issues, especially in sincere people with good intentions.

No one can avoid their own human nature, so you are going to fall, and now you're focusing on the issue rather than just moving on as a human. So you fall and think, "man, I'm no good, why do I even try", you try to do better but you're still human. You make promises to God then fwil again, which further exacerbates your bad feelings about yourself.

I had to get away from religion and find myself and find God

Are you evil for simply existing as a human?

 

[DoubleClutch]

Because it was built off of Paul's letters. The way they know what came first is because they base it from the earliest manuscripts they have and the changes in language over time.
Jesus taught the Torah. He didn't teach as he was a divine figure, that he was God in the flesh

Where is your proof?

Go read the gospels. You’re confused breh.

Listen to yourself…… a religion that Paul a JEW was directly persecuting was “built off of Paul's letters” after he became CHRISTIAN

I’ll let you cook but at the end of the day, You’re just a guy talking on the internet

I’ll believe 1st-2nd century accounts over the opinion of a Coli breh.

Maybe you’re troll and I’m taking the bait but regardless I respect your interpretation. You can believe anything based on your own personal theology it’s a free world

Logically you’ll get no respect though


They say “don’t argue with fools” so….. no disrespect but

I don’t think this type of discussion is worth the time or effort going further especially when it’s distracting from the thread topic

ARE WE BORN IN SIN?

Can you answer that question

 

[DoubleClutch]

Telling someone they are a lowly sinner CAN become a self fulfilling prophecy. It can lead to low self esteem and mental issues, especially in sincere people with good intentions.

No one can avoid their own human nature, so you are going to fall, and now you're focusing on the issue rather than just moving on as a human. So you fall and think, "man, I'm no good, why do I even try", you try to do better but you're still human. You make promises to God then fwil again, which further exacerbates your bad feelings about yourself.

I had to get away from religion and find myself and find God

Are you evil for simply existing as a human?

And THIS is the story of Gods relationship with Israel portrayed throughout the bible

And that’s why Jesus solves the problem of mankind you expressed above.

Even the disciples betrayed Jesus. Nobody is perfect

 

[jadillac]

And THIS is the story of Gods relationship with Israel portrayed throughout the bible

And that’s why Jesus solves the problem of mankind you expressed above.

Even the disciples betrayed Jesus. Nobody is perfect

But I'm just saying, telling someone they are something, and they are that bc almighty God says they are, can create a sense of hopelessness. Everyone's brain works differently.

Let's say you start drinking bc you can't square your lifestyle (and maybe you're not even a bad person, but bad by super religious standards), to your upbringing going to Bible camp, revivals etc etc. Now you have a drinking problem and feel like God is mad at you. Is that now what God wants for you?

When in actual, if you had never been placed/forced/or put yourself into a super religious lifestyle, maybe you would have just developed naturally,and accepted that hey, I am a human. If I get sexually aroused, it's not bc im sinful/evil, it's bc I have a nature like every living thing on the planet.

GOD does not want us tied up in things. At best, you are here to be a human, not beat yourself over the head all day everyday and then wonder if God is mad at you

 

[010101]

Telling someone they are a lowly sinner CAN become a self fulfilling prophecy. It can lead to low self esteem and mental issues, especially in sincere people with good intentions.

No one can avoid their own human nature, so you are going to fall, and now you're focusing on the issue rather than just moving on as a human. So you fall and think, "man, I'm no good, why do I even try", you try to do better but you're still human. You make promises to God then fwil again, which further exacerbates your bad feelings about yourself.

I had to get away from religion and find myself and find God

Are you evil for simply existing as a human?

yup it's bad programming*