Are we really “Born in SIN”?

[DoubleClutch]

look at a newborn baby and say its sinning brehs

only in religion

I think new born babies are exempt..... but Where did the phrase “terrible twos” come from

I think the idea is that we have a “Sinful nature” and are wired to Sin.

But who said sin is always a BAD thing in life?

 

[DoubleClutch]

this

and its beyond gnosticism its manichaeism which at its core has always tried to paint the physical world as fundamentally evil as basically anything attached to it as that

Manichaeism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

whereas the God of Israel said that the first two qualities of reality as we know it were "formlessness" and his breath moving over the waters.

Genesis 1:2 Hebrew Text Analysis

then there was light, firmaments etc...

When did you stop subscribing to gnostic beliefs

I remember you once believed in the demiurge…. But I could be wrong

How do you explain the god of Judaism “YHWH” then?

 

[MMS]

When did you stop subscribing to gnostic beliefs

I remember you once believed in the demiurge…. But I could be wrong

How do you explain the god of Judaism “YHWH” then?

you have me confused with someone else

how do you explain what cant be explained?

We are living in a world of illusion

@Ghost Utmost @DoubleClutch @Marks @Dave24 @Koichos lit a candle today for the main participants in this thread I believe yall would like to see today's service's topic :banderas:: Sunday of the 7th Ecumenical Council - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

www.thecoli.com

 

[maxamusa]

Creh looks like he's been smoking meth for a decade straight. FOH

 

[Born Rich]

Saw that on the front page of Google right? I did too lol

Like I said Christians for centuries have been trying to distance themselves from Gnosticism since it's origin. Just like they first embraced the teachings of St Augustine the Hippo then when it was found out that he mirrored Gnostic philosophies, abandoned him

ii think this is where we're misaligned, breh...

st. augustine's teachings weren't new ideals...they were already established in Scripture several centuries before st. augustine and platonic and gnostic thought...augustine simply synthesized some of these ideals...

original sin:

Romans 5:12 - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all that have sinned"

grace and salvation:

Epesians 2:8-9 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

doctine of the Trinity :

1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that break record in heaver, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

these are just a few examples, breh...one of augustine's seminal works, the city of God, simply expounds on what Yeshua already outlined as the Kingdom of God...

Luke 17:20-21 - "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

And all Christianity/Gnosticism teachings were influenced by Hermeticism and Neo-Platonism, which modern day Christian would consider "Pagan"

hermetic and platonic writings came centuries after the OT which already discussed creation and divine cosmology, a transcendent creator, the delineation between the heavenly realm and material reality (which platonic thought called duality), the immortal soul, wisdom and knowledge as a virtue (Proverds 1:7 - "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction.", justice and an ideal society...

the NT (which was authored several decades if not a centuries before the religio-philosophical hermetica) built on the ideals of the OT, not the ideals of platonism and hermeticism...ii think you're conflating the time period in which the early christian theologians wrote with the actual messages and themes written in Scripture that predate their philosophies...

 

[UpAndComing]

ii think this is where we're misaligned, breh...

st. augustine's teachings weren't new ideals...they were already established in Scripture several centuries before st. augustine and platonic and gnostic thought...augustine simply synthesized some of these ideals...

original sin:

Romans 5:12 - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all that have sinned"

grace and salvation:

Epesians 2:8-9 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

doctine of the Trinity :

1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that break record in heaver, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

these are just a few examples, breh...one of augustine's seminal works, the city of God, simply expounds on what Yeshua already outlined as the Kingdom of God...

Luke 17:20-21 - "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."




hermetic and platonic writings came centuries after the OT which already discussed creation and divine cosmology, a transcendent creator, the delineation between the heavenly realm and material reality (which platonic thought called duality), the immortal soul, wisdom and knowledge as a virtue (Proverds 1:7 - "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction.", justice and an ideal society...

the NT (which was authored several decades if not a centuries before the religio-philosophical hermetica) built on the ideals of the OT, not the ideals of platonism and hermeticism...ii think you're conflating the time period in which the early christian theologians wrote with the actual messages and themes written in Scripture that predate their philosophies...

You're literally making my point. The Old Testament was formulated from a list of ancient texts that predate the Old Testament from other cultures/civilizations (Sumeria, Babylonia, Assyria, and Ancient Kemet). It's basically an amalgamation put into 1 book. Notice you didn't mention the New Testament, which is where Hermeticism, Neo-Platonism, Gnosticism etc made it's mark to flesh out and formulate Christian ideals and philosophies

The Old Testament being older does not negate the aforementioned philosophies' influence on Christianity, Islam, and Judaism

 

[BaldingSoHard]

Yes of course it's true.

God made a man and took his rib to make a woman knowing she would eat the apple from the forbidden tree which would doom everybody to hell forever and ever and ever and ever. And that's entirely on YOU.

How dare you question this.

 

[DoubleClutch]

ii think this is where we're misaligned, breh...

st. augustine's teachings weren't new ideals...they were already established in Scripture several centuries before st. augustine and platonic and gnostic thought...augustine simply synthesized some of these ideals...

original sin:

Romans 5:12 - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all that have sinned"

grace and salvation:

Epesians 2:8-9 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

doctine of the Trinity :

1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that break record in heaver, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

these are just a few examples, breh...one of augustine's seminal works, the city of God, simply expounds on what Yeshua already outlined as the Kingdom of God...

Luke 17:20-21 - "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."




hermetic and platonic writings came centuries after the OT which already discussed creation and divine cosmology, a transcendent creator, the delineation between the heavenly realm and material reality (which platonic thought called duality), the immortal soul, wisdom and knowledge as a virtue (Proverds 1:7 - "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction.", justice and an ideal society...

the NT (which was authored several decades if not a centuries before the religio-philosophical hermetica) built on the ideals of the OT, not the ideals of platonism and hermeticism...ii think you're conflating the time period in which the early christian theologians wrote with the actual messages and themes written in Scripture that predate their philosophies...

We got some smart brehs on the Coli

I got a good video that breaks down all the gnostic stuff and history from a unbiased pov

If you want I can find it.

But more interesting is how Gnosticism influenced ISLAM

It’s gonna find it’s way into Judaism and Christianity as an influence and alternate way of understanding things but it’s nothing compared to what’s actually in the Quran SCRIPTURES

 

[DoubleClutch]

You're literally making my point. The Old Testament was formulated from a list of ancient texts that predate the Old Testament from other cultures/civilizations (Sumeria, Babylonia, Assyria, and Ancient Kemet). It's basically an amalgamation put into 1 book. Notice you didn't mention the New Testament, which is where Hermeticism, Neo-Platonism, Gnosticism etc made it's mark to flesh out and formulate Christian ideals and philosophies

The Old Testament being older does not negate the aforementioned philosophies' influence on Christianity, Islam, and Judaism

But Jesus wasn’t influenced by Gnostics and he was Jewish

Everything that came later was a reaction to him

Because he actually existed

 

[Born Rich]

You're literally making my point. The Old Testament was formulated from a list of ancient texts that predate the Old Testament from other cultures/civilizations (Sumeria, Babylonia, Assyria, and Ancient Kemet). It's basically an amalgamation put into 1 book.

what you're failing to take into account is that literacy was rare and writing was an extemely uncommon practice among the ancient Israelites and other Semitic nomads during the early 2nd millennia...they had oral traditions...it's unrealistic to expect ancient texts from a poor, illiterate nation of people from that time period...

it wouldn't have been until israel's monarchy period, where they were surrounded by egyptian, assyrian, and babylonian cultures who already had well establish scribal practices, and could access scribal education where they began to document their oral traditions...

the existence of texts like the epic of gilgamesh and other ancient texts predating the Bible doesn't mean the Biblical accounts are based on those texts...it means those nations had educated elite classes who could write...the Israelites were a poor nation of people throughout their history, breh...

Notice you didn't mention the New Testament, which is where Hermeticism, Neo-Platonism, Gnosticism etc made it's mark to flesh out and formulate Christian ideals and philosophies

The Old Testament being older does not negate the aforementioned philosophies' influence on Christianity, Islam, and Judaism

hermetic and platonic writings came centuries after the OT which already discussed creation and divine cosmology, a transcendent creator, the delineation between the heavenly realm and material reality (which platonic thought called duality), the immortal soul, wisdom and knowledge as a virtue (Proverds 1:7 - "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction.", justice and an ideal society...

the NT (which was authored several decades if not centuries before the religio-philosophical hermetica) built on the ideals of the OT, not the ideals of platonism and hermeticism...ii think you're conflating the time period in which the early christian theologians wrote with the actual messages and themes written in Scripture that predate their philosophies...

ii see you didn't read, breh...

 

[Born Rich]

We got some smart brehs on the Coli

I got a good video that breaks down all the gnostic stuff and history from a unbiased pov

If you want I can find it.

But more interesting is how Gnosticism influenced ISLAM

It’s gonna find it’s way into Judaism and Christianity as an influence and alternate way of understanding things but it’s nothing compared to what’s actually in the Quran SCRIPTURES

yessir, ii appreciate you, breh

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

Born in sin? Come on in!

 

[MMS]

@Gloxina if you read it even deeper, this is why Jacob said he took the sword and bow from the Amorite (infertile storytellers, false elohim)

Genesis 48:21-22

21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.

22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/can-any-christian-jew-explain-this.984023/page-16#post-49859900

 

[The Fade]

This world is definitely shyt and it’s the lowest form of known existence

Life is not a gift

 

[Uachet]

We are here and we have each other. We can either work together to make this reality better, or we can squabble with each other to make it worse. Being human, we are apt to do both, because competitiveness and socializing are intrinsic parts of our nature as human beings.

So are we born in Sin? My answer is I don't know. Some of you can answer in the affirmative and others in the negative, but the truth of the matter is none of us know for certain. As an Agnostic, I am inclined to think I am just honest with myself and others on this issue.