obamacare wasnt going to happen either...until it happened. there were people yelling leave my healthcare alone. people that had crap healthcare that would drop them the moment they caught a bad illness. yet thats what you heard. until that obamacare came thru and gave them a chance to go to the doctor after 20 years. anything can happen if YOU the people make it so. yall forget, YOU control the government, because guess who is in government? PEOPLE. If you dont like what those people are doing, Vote in someone else. if you dont like the pool of people you see, start voting for legit people you can trust and if they pump fake when they get in. vote them out too. that will stop all this corporate leaning nonsense. but since we're too scared to do that. then things wont change until we get in bad enough of a situation where we dont have a choice but to fight for real. that time is pretty much now. too many people out of work or about to lose their jobs and income while losing their roof over their heads, kids and all.M4A isn't going to happen just like that or stop a world wide pandemic that's already happening , stop the disingenuous talk
AOC & Congressional Progressives push back on Jimmy Dore and premature Medicare For All floor votes
- Thread starter invincible1914
- Start date
wrong. they need to keep calling them sell outs, because they are. I dont care if you're making 6 figures on your job and your 52 years old with kids in college doing fine. you walk outside of your nice office job and walk over two homeless people. you do this every day. how on earth can you stomach that and go to sleep at night? they dont need you to start another charity or give them $5.00. If you would've stopped voting for corporate dems to begin with, half of those homeless people wouldnt be on the streets to begin with. you wouldnt need as many toy drives for christmas, as many turkey giveaways for thanksigving, or as many backpack drives when school starts. Push the politics in the right direction and your government works for those people who need the most help much better than a bunch of separate charities in most cases. or keep things the way they are and try to close your eyes and hold your knows the next time you go out for lunch during your lunch break and pass by 5 homeless tents.Progressives are a minority in their own party. We don't have the kind of leverage that you think we do. The ideas are popular, but I don't think even Dem party voters have the appetite to implement those ideas.
The actual reliable voters don't want to upset the current order. They are in their 40s, 50s and 60s. At different levels, they are established in their careers, they've paid off a good portion of their mortgage, have built wealth with retirement accounts and have have healthcare with employer or medicare.
Progressives need to start understanding the perspective of others in the party and not start labeling people sell outs or neo-liberals because they disagree on policy issues.
and you're the problem too. if you think incrementalism will work you aint paying attention. go tell the next family thats about to literally be homeless with their kids and they have jobs. to wait for incremental change that will come in 25...35 or so years.This is what a lot of these self righteous blowhards on twitter and youtube don't understand. I consider myself a leftist/progressive as well but I pay attention to how people think and feel outside of lefty echo chambers online.
The sad truth is we may not have a choice but to do things via incrementalism/compromise/piece meal until we get our numbers up. I'm all for M4ALL but I could happily settle for now with some form of public option.
why would they ever change? have yall ever thought about that? why? if you wont give people m4a during a pandemic you never will. that means the YOU in government has to change. the corporate dems have shown you time and time again they do not fight against republicans, they're cool with them. they only fight hard when its progressive talking about things regular people need. they wont change until you FORCE THEM TO CHANGE or VOTE THEM OUT. now if you're too lazy to do either. then say so.
Progressives current power is being able raise alot of money from ordinary people to primary centrist. We've also been able to slowly build local power to flip outlook on issues to help build a more reliable voting base.
For some reason there's a contingent on the left who believe we can be like the tea party and take the reigns from a party by force. Difference is the tea party was just able to get the billionaire donor class on their side forcing the mainstream Republicans hands. Obviously not a viable scenario for progressives.
I know most here don't like Dore anyway but he's taken a front line stance on this. And realistically no one had a problem with forcing a vote. But once AOC disagreed he and others on the left started calling her fake and a gaslighter. And to me its like what's the point then? Are you really trying to see these policies implemented or are you just waiting for the perfect politician to come along and tell you everything you want to hear?
I mean Bernie had a shot to win the primary but a combination of his mistakes and others out of his control set us back. So what could have been done in 4 to 8 years will probably take a decade or so. So it's probably not a good idea to slander the only ones we have in Washington willing to fight for us. Unless there's some well organized third party ready to go it just comes off as childish.
For some reason there's a contingent on the left who believe we can be like the tea party and take the reigns from a party by force. Difference is the tea party was just able to get the billionaire donor class on their side forcing the mainstream Republicans hands. Obviously not a viable scenario for progressives.
I know most here don't like Dore anyway but he's taken a front line stance on this. And realistically no one had a problem with forcing a vote. But once AOC disagreed he and others on the left started calling her fake and a gaslighter. And to me its like what's the point then? Are you really trying to see these policies implemented or are you just waiting for the perfect politician to come along and tell you everything you want to hear?
I mean Bernie had a shot to win the primary but a combination of his mistakes and others out of his control set us back. So what could have been done in 4 to 8 years will probably take a decade or so. So it's probably not a good idea to slander the only ones we have in Washington willing to fight for us. Unless there's some well organized third party ready to go it just comes off as childish.
jfc
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Oh you bet? Really you are just making up shyt to make yourself feel better. You have no idea what Jimmy has and hasn't done in his community politically.
And the 'grifter' is making news right now politically and you are commenting on what he is up to.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
No one is saying we are getting it next month. But what better time to force the conversation legislatively? There's a health crisis where people are losing their jobs at a high rate and health coverage and employment are strongly linked. If not now when?
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
The difference is Pelosi and Schumer wanted to impeach Trump so all the Dems could go ham.
Still both were good ideas. They should do this as well.
God Almighty
Your Lord
The centrist answer is always "Eventually." And what they really mean is "Never, because my life is comfortable enough and I don't really care about the working class."
In a two party system we have to drag these people, kicking and screaming, into the future.
sounds like a lot of people on here
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
More like politicians in the party you are in shouldn't be criticized.
AquaCityBoy
Veteran
The logic of this makes zero sense.
If the argument is you need to force a vote to see who's "really" for it and not just claiming to be a co-sponsor, that's a waste of time. Anybody who truly gives AF will just vote yes because they're pressured into it, and then when it inevitably fails and the heat dies down you're right back to square one.
This is just more performative purity politics garbage that solves nothing and gets no one closer to actually getting healthcare. If you really want these progressives to leverage their vote for Pelosi, do it on something like forcing her to #ENFORCETHE14TH and get these anti-American anti-democracy Rethuglican traitors out of the House.
If the argument is you need to force a vote to see who's "really" for it and not just claiming to be a co-sponsor, that's a waste of time. Anybody who truly gives AF will just vote yes because they're pressured into it, and then when it inevitably fails and the heat dies down you're right back to square one.
This is just more performative purity politics garbage that solves nothing and gets no one closer to actually getting healthcare. If you really want these progressives to leverage their vote for Pelosi, do it on something like forcing her to #ENFORCETHE14TH and get these anti-American anti-democracy Rethuglican traitors out of the House.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Except AOC intimated the opposite that Pelosi would rather risk her seat than make the promise to bring it up for a vote. Why if it's such a formality and all the co-sponsors will vote yes? Sounds nice but already that's not coming to fruition.The logic of this makes zero sense.
If the argument is you need to force a vote to see who's "really" for it and not just claiming to be a co-sponsor, that's a waste of time. Anybody who truly gives AF will just vote yes because they're pressured into it, and then when it inevitably fails and the heat dies down you're right back to square one.
This is just more performative purity politics garbage that solves nothing and gets no one closer to actually getting healthcare. If you really want these progressives to leverage their vote for Pelosi, do it on something like forcing her to #ENFORCETHE14TH and get these anti-American anti-democracy Rethuglican traitors out of the House.
