AOC & Congressional Progressives push back on Jimmy Dore and premature Medicare For All floor votes

[Robbie3000]

Using power to pass favorable infrastructure reconciliation bill >>> using power to burn M4A in order to expose Democrats

I don’t think the Jimmy Dore left cares about policy. They are in it to sow chaos and purity clout.

I saw a clip of a Jimmy Dore live event where he was getting cheap pops by saying that Biden can single handedly pass M4A.

 

[Mook]

The whole "why aren't The Squad like the Freedom Caucus" is stupid though.

The Freedom Caucus was backed by the Koch network and powerful Libertarian billionaires. Thats why they could get Boehner out of the paint and wreck havoc in Congress.

Chris Hedges has said this before but THE SQUAD do not represent power structures like those Koch heads do.

So its either political suicide or you gotta fall in line to get something accomplished.

If they were repped by say, an organized labor movement that had teeth, THEN you'd see them flex. But there's nothing like that.

It's why corporate Dems can hang their nuts out like they're doing right now. They have powerful interests in their corner.

You're agreeing with me because we know they'll NEVER get enough money for a fight. So now they're gonna try try pass off incrimentalism as progress, were back full circle to just regular democrats.

 

[No1]

You're agreeing with me because we know they'll NEVER get enough money for a fight. So now they're gonna try try pass off incrimentalism as progress, were back full circle to just regular democrats.

Yeah, but the positions of “regular democrats” have shifted leftward for the first time in a generation.

 

[storyteller]

You're agreeing with me because we know they'll NEVER get enough money for a fight. So now they're gonna try try pass off incrimentalism as progress, were back full circle to just regular democrats.

There's no magic bullet for passing big progressive legislation. However, if we wanted the Squad to make legislation move in larger increments or to or actually get things like M4A or student loan forgiveness past the finish line then the trick would be to actually work on ways to empower them, not to make false equivalences between them and the average democrat when they obviously aren't.

How do we empower them?
Well, one would be to support their legislative pushes with direct action...protests, pressuring the Dems that actually stand against legislation the Squad would happily support, tying donations to announcements about the specific legislative efforts you support so that it can track with the data gurus, etc.

The second would be to push to increase their numbers. The House has over 400 seats and the squad comprise less than 10 of those. We've seen that even with donor's behind them the "Mod Squad" is facing more resistance than any money-backed centrist schemes that I've seen. Influence over legislation tends to be commensurate with the size of the voting bloc. More Squad-adjacent Reps would mean more progressive-leaning legislation.

If people that support progressive legislation are attacked for not passing the legislation despite the obvious barriers to success they face, I'd guess that the chances of a backfire are much larger. Less openness to progressive legislation off the rip since it only leads to an angry group that runs on utopian fallacies.

I just don't see where the value is in treating the people that are blatantly leaning the furthest left as if they're "just regular democrats" when their presence isn't responsible for the lack of left-leaning legislation passing. And I don't see how that would encourage anyone new to want to try for a Congressional seat only to have their supporters turn on them when they're inevitably forced to make some compromises as one of 435 votes on any legislation. Build that bloc so that they can unite as 20 votes and maybe you start cooking though...Legislative changes take election cycles and swinging a right-leaning government body to the left is going to take more than one election cycle.

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

providing cover for Biden in Afghanistan and making excuses for politicians to not mimic the actions of their colleagues that're strong-arming their interest into legislation, is yet another reminder to not believe the activist/victim/target narratives

Career politician is the dark side that's too tempting for the ideologically weak. Term limit is shaping to be the most effective means to interrupting this bureaucratic system of individual come-ups, not electing individuals to fight a machine

 

[AnonymityX1000]

There's no magic bullet for passing big progressive legislation. However, if we wanted the Squad to make legislation move in larger increments or to or actually get things like M4A or student loan forgiveness past the finish line then the trick would be to actually work on ways to empower them, not to make false equivalences between them and the average democrat when they obviously aren't.

How do we empower them?
Well, one would be to support their legislative pushes with direct action...protests, pressuring the Dems that actually stand against legislation the Squad would happily support, tying donations to announcements about the specific legislative efforts you support so that it can track with the data gurus, etc.

The second would be to push to increase their numbers. The House has over 400 seats and the squad comprise less than 10 of those. We've seen that even with donor's behind them the "Mod Squad" is facing more resistance than any money-backed centrist schemes that I've seen. Influence over legislation tends to be commensurate with the size of the voting bloc. More Squad-adjacent Reps would mean more progressive-leaning legislation.

If people that support progressive legislation are attacked for not passing the legislation despite the obvious barriers to success they face, I'd guess that the chances of a backfire are much larger. Less openness to progressive legislation off the rip since it only leads to an angry group that runs on utopian fallacies.

I just don't see where the value is in treating the people that are blatantly leaning the furthest left as if they're "just regular democrats" when their presence isn't responsible for the lack of left-leaning legislation passing. And I don't see how that would encourage anyone new to want to try for a Congressional seat only to have their supporters turn on them when they're inevitably forced to make some compromises as one of 435 votes on any legislation. Build that bloc so that they can unite as 20 votes and maybe you start cooking though...Legislative changes take election cycles and swinging a right-leaning government body to the left is going to take more than one election cycle.

Why not do what Joe Manchin does, threaten not to vote for stuff unless they do what you want?
She is part of a squad they can't be a voting block to get stuff Progressives want? Why do they have to be a rubber stamp?

AOC while running said she doesn't care if she is a one term Congress member.
She said getting a floor votw on M4A was of the utmost importance.
Holding her to that and criticizing her for not following thru is not out of bounds. Some may do it more crassly than others but being a heel is effective. It gets attention, AOC seemed like she was going with that strategy but changed course. Which is fine but you got to take the darts in the meantime until you accomplish a big Big Progressive goal. And really the criticism isn't even that effective but people act like Progressives have turned on her. By an large they have not.

 

[storyteller]

AOC while running said she doesn't care if she is a one term Congress member.
She said getting a floor votw on M4A was of the utmost importance.
Holding her to that and criticizing her for not following thru is not out of bounds. Some may do it more crassly than others but being a heel is effective. It gets attention, AOC seemed like she was going with that strategy but changed course. Which is fine but you got to take the darts in the meantime until you accomplish a big Big Progressive goal. And really the criticism isn't even that effective but people act like Progressives have turned on her. By an large they have not.

I didn't mention anything being in or out of bounds. I care about what gets us closer to passing progressive legislation and what's counter-productive not what's crass or inbounds.

I consider Jimmy's schtick counter-productive. Even if it's not very effective, it's certainly not helpful. It doesn't get us closer to M4A or any other progressive legislation passing. It's performative whining that is at its best worthless and at its worst pulls people away from supporting the actual left-leaning members of Congress that would be yes votes on the legislation we care about.

edit: And it kills me that the point goes from "it gets attention" to "it's not even that effective." That's the problem...it's only about attention and not the least bit concerned with actually being effective. I don't even know what the intended effect is anymore. FTV wasn't getting M4A passed, everyone involved knew it was aiming at forcing a losing vote.

 

[Mook]

There's no magic bullet for passing big progressive legislation. However, if we wanted the Squad to make legislation move in larger increments or to or actually get things like M4A or student loan forgiveness past the finish line then the trick would be to actually work on ways to empower them, not to make false equivalences between them and the average democrat when they obviously aren't.

How do we empower them?
Well, one would be to support their legislative pushes with direct action...protests, pressuring the Dems that actually stand against legislation the Squad would happily support, tying donations to announcements about the specific legislative efforts you support so that it can track with the data gurus, etc.

The second would be to push to increase their numbers. The House has over 400 seats and the squad comprise less than 10 of those. We've seen that even with donor's behind them the "Mod Squad" is facing more resistance than any money-backed centrist schemes that I've seen. Influence over legislation tends to be commensurate with the size of the voting bloc. More Squad-adjacent Reps would mean more progressive-leaning legislation.

If people that support progressive legislation are attacked for not passing the legislation despite the obvious barriers to success they face, I'd guess that the chances of a backfire are much larger. Less openness to progressive legislation off the rip since it only leads to an angry group that runs on utopian fallacies.

I just don't see where the value is in treating the people that are blatantly leaning the furthest left as if they're "just regular democrats" when their presence isn't responsible for the lack of left-leaning legislation passing. And I don't see how that would encourage anyone new to want to try for a Congressional seat only to have their supporters turn on them when they're inevitably forced to make some compromises as one of 435 votes on any legislation. Build that bloc so that they can unite as 20 votes and maybe you start cooking though...Legislative changes take election cycles and swinging a right-leaning government body to the left is going to take more than one election cycle.

We're not asking them to pass shyt. We're poor, not stupid. We know we're never gonna win anything. We're asking them to fight for us. No one fights for us, they just Juelz and say oh it's hard. Yea no shyt, but you're sitting there calling that bytch Nancy mama bear? What are we really supposed to think?

Bruh if you're a progressive you rep the poor. There will be no protests and no letter writing campaign dude, you're talking about people with zero time.

In reality, this is the progressives fault. They take to anyone that talks nice in their ears. We shoulda asked them for a detail plan on what each were going to do ALONE with no help.

Jimmy Dore was probably never poor and neither was Kyle or any of these "progressive" commentators. They're just talking shyt, none of this actually affects them. They're no different than any pundit on tv.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

I didn't mention anything being in or out of bounds. I care about what gets us closer to passing progressive legislation and what's counter-productive not what's crass or inbounds.

I consider Jimmy's schtick counter-productive. Even if it's not very effective, it's certainly not helpful. It doesn't get us closer to M4A or any other progressive legislation passing. It's performative whining that is at its best worthless and at its worst pulls people away from supporting the actual left-leaning members of Congress that would be yes votes on the legislation we care about.

edit: And it kills me that the point goes from "it gets attention" to "it's not even that effective." That's the problem...it's only about attention and not the least bit concerned with actually being effective. I don't even know what the intended effect is anymore. FTV wasn't getting M4A passed, everyone involved knew it was aiming at forcing a losing vote.

It was to make people in both parties vote it dosn during a pandemic. That would have been newsworthy and effective at keeping the issue in the public conversation IMO.
Someone else like a comedian can get attention someone like a Congress person can actually be effectice. But they would have to be on the same page and it's a shame they are not. They were, then she got elected and then they weren't. Dude was always crass but she did his show for a reason, attention.

 

[storyteller]

We're not asking them to pass shyt. We're poor, not stupid. We know we're never gonna win anything. We're asking them to fight for us. No one fights for us, they just Juelz and say oh it's hard. Yea no shyt, but you're sitting there calling that bytch Nancy mama bear? What are we really supposed to think?

Bruh if you're a progressive you rep the poor. There will be no protests and no letter writing campaign dude, you're talking about people with zero time.

In reality, this is the progressives fault. They take to anyone that talks nice in their ears. We shoulda asked them for a detail plan on what each were going to do ALONE with no help.

Jimmy Dore was probably never poor and neither was Kyle or any of these "progressive" commentators. They're just talking shyt, none of this actually affects them. They're no different than any pundit on tv.

The bold is where I have a disconnect. I vote for Congressional members to pass shyt. That's their entire purpose in the legislative branch. When you say that you're not worried about passing anything, then I'm not sure what your goal is.

The other two lines I bolded work in tandem. A big tenet on the left is focusing on collective action. And the action part is important. There are people who need help NOW, absolutely, you're right. I think showing up to a protest, or writing a legislator, or donating to someone that pushes a bill to help forward is a more productive approach to helping those people faster than complaining about the left-most representative in Congress. I don't think those left-leaning Reps are the problem; I don't think they're the reason that legislation is being held up; and if i want to help people urgently in need, then I'm pushing for MORE left-leaning Reps in Congress so they collectively have more influence over the direction that bills take instead of tearing down the few that we have.

 

[storyteller]

It was to make people in both parties vote it dosn during a pandemic. That would have been newsworthy and effective at keeping the issue in the public conversation IMO.
Someone else like a comedian can get attention someone like a Congress person can actually be effectice. But they would have to be on the same page and it's a shame they are not. They were, then she got elected and then they weren't. Dude was always crass but she did his show for a reason, attention.

Why do you think an obvious no-vote would get coverage and why are you assuming the coverage would paint that loss in a light that actually helps? Look at the media absolutely fukking up the Afghanistan coverage...you really think those fools would cover a losing M4A vote in a manner that puts the public conversation closer to passing? You'd be lucky to see it covered at all and even luckier if they didn't spin it as a waste of time while people are suffering. The idea that FTV would have just I Dream of Genie'd M4A into the mainstream wisdom when we've had it centered in two presidential primaries already is wishful thinking.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Why do you think an obvious no-vote would get coverage and why are you assuming the coverage would paint that loss in a light that actually helps? Look at the media absolutely fukking up the Afghanistan coverage...you really think those fools would cover a losing M4A vote in a manner that puts the public conversation closer to passing? You'd be lucky to see it covered at all and even luckier if they didn't spin it as a waste of time while people are suffering. The idea that FTV would have just I Dream of Genie'd M4A into the mainstream wisdom when we've had it centered in two presidential primaries already is wishful thinking.

Then it would expose the media as well just like Afghaniatan situation is. I don't know what a push for a Floor vote would have provided the mainstream conversatiom. But not doing it is providing 0 toward that cause. Biden isn't even considering a public option like he ran on and no one is asking him either.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

I don’t think the Jimmy Dore left cares about policy. They are in it to sow chaos and purity clout.

I saw a clip of a Jimmy Dore live event where he was getting cheap pops by saying that Biden can single handedly pass M4A.

Imagine being that simple that you think nationalizing an entire industry is that easy. People are paste eaters

 

[Robbie3000]

Imagine being that simple that you think nationalizing an entire industry is that easy. People are paste eaters

It’s all about purity clout chasing. Even if we were able to pass M4A through legislation, it would disrupt a two trillion dollar industry. It’s a policy that would take years of planning and even more years to implement so as not to throw the country into a severe recession.

These dudes can’t be serious with these Wil-E Cayote Acme M4A schemes.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

It’s all about purity clout chasing. Even if we were able to pass M4A through legislation, it would disrupt a two trillion dollar industry. It’s a policy that would take years of planning and even more years to implement so as not to throw the country into a severe recession.

These dudes can’t be serious with these Wil-E Cayote Acme M4A schemes.

That's why people like Dore are as bad as the fascists. Bree is bad to but not Dore level full on giving the boogaloo boys a PR platform bad. She's just been black pilled and want's everything to be tore down. Dore is just straight up evil and henchman to right wingers and white supremacists.