Andrew Yang (Former 2020 Presidential Candidate): What's his future? #YangGang :lupe:

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1) The problem I have isn't that cash >>> benefits; I respect that opinion. The question I have is whether or not this amount of cash eliminates the need for those benefits for everybody and the "choice" means that the programs are weakened. What that leads to is an easier program to get rid of because, "what is the point of keeping a program running if fewer people need it?" but what about those people that DO need the program? I'm not concerned about people making the choice on what's best for them; I'm concerned about the choice being removed prematurely if these programs get shut down. Plus the opt-in/opt-out mechanism ought not to even be necessary. Let's say the UBI stacks with all of these programs; we can assume that if it's as effective as Yang hopes, then people will be uplifted and no longer qualify for those programs anyway. Then we'll have proof of concept BEFORE we threaten the programs that are helping people (in an efficient and effective manner I might add).

2) I'm mentioning the hack, Milton Friedman because this model best matches his own proclamations and plans for UBI. He specifically wanted UBI as a replacement for existing benefits, whereas, unless I'm mistaken MLK never brought up UBI as a replacement. This is why I like to point out, that I'm supportive of UBI and would even support this model if it stacked with current benefits. My problem isn't with UBI, it's with this particular version which leans more in the direction of Friedman's comments imo.

3) Not theory, just the simple fact that a VAT can easily be regressive and harm people in poverty which is why most progressives I've seen speak on it, consider it a bad idea. The fact that America can screw up these sorts of things is assumed when I point that out. Here's a link I provided earlier that I think is fair. It points out that there are ways to mitigate the dangers but it makes clear that there are ways the VAT can be a fail.
Who would bear the burden of a VAT?

4) I think it's worth noting who is enthusiastic about a bill and consider their goals because it can tell us how legislators with similar principles will attack the bill. Point blank, I don't think this bill should be passed as described and I've laid out why repeatedly. I bring up Friedman and Rubin because they're giving away the game here. This model threatens to eliminate benefits and if you're cool with that, we simply disagree on that principle. My opinion is that UBI should be a compliment to benefits programs, not a replacement. It should be modeled with the poorest Americans getting the most out of it. By forcing them to opt out of beneficial programs when no one else is giving up anything, I believe this actually does the opposite.

So 1 and 4 have been put to bed so on 2 and 3


2) MLK talked about UBI a lot and has a young black man; this is where I heard of it first before way before what I the acronym of UBI came along. He did mention a few things about winding down programs that weren't as helpful as UBI. He said it quite a bit! This ties into point 4 as well the best views no matter what politically ideologue held should win to provide help to who it needed by.. I like to see people throw around the libertarian viewpoint on MLK when he talks about UBI.


3) The VAT is only a burden to the poor when it affects the consumption rate of the things that poor people consume. Certain countries have figured out how to combat that, and so can America. Hence my example of before the companies I have in different countries. Also, a VAT tax rebate is very easy to do, just like a middle-class tax cut has been given in the past.
 
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The video illustrated my point exactly straight from Yang's mouth.
"What's gonna happen is you're gonna dramatically reduce enrollment for these programs because a lot of people will be like I prefer the cash and then this new incoming population will just opt for the dividend and never end up in these welfare programs and end up shrinking the enrollments over time. You just wouldn't do it all at once because there are a lot of people in distinct situations. And this is much more politically feasible and popular than trying to go in and tear these programs from the roots up."

Yangs interview with Rubin was terrible. His worst interview. I thought much less of him because of it. He completely pandered to Rubin and audience in such a corny, desperate way. He’s answered questions just like Rubin’s many times before but for some reason, he dumbed down his answers, spoke excessively negative towards govt and sounded like a right leaning libertarian hack.

Yang really caters his talking points to the audience he’s speaking to. Yeah that’s a smart thing to do but he over does it in a way that ain’t genuine. What he says to one crowd can sound completely different to what he says to another crowd. I’ve noticed this with Yang more than any other candidate running for D nomination. One thing about Obama was that he was always himself. Just a cool, smart dude who didn’t pander, and adapted to crowds without sacrificing his message or values. From what I’ve seen, Yang struggles with that.

I still support his Freedom dividend. When he’s not pandering to right wing or libertarian talking heads, he’s actually really thoughtful and compassionate with left leaning values.
 

MeachTheMonster

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I like the idea of having a progressive thinker as president. Not just progressive policy, but new ways of thinking about policy.

Think I’m joining the Yang wave, although I don’t think there’s a chance in hell he gets the nomination.
 

FromStLouis

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source.gif
 

storyteller

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Can someone explain why people say this dude is loved by Alt Right cats?

Because the model Yang is using sounds an awful lot like what people like Friedman and Charles Murray have advocated for in the past. The core disagreement from lefties being that the Murray model gets rid of programs that have actually been successful.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income

More recently, in a 2006 book, conservative intellectual Charles Murray proposed eliminating all welfare transfer programs, including Social Security and Medicare, and substituting an annual $10,000 cash grant to everyone 21 years and older.

My philosophy on UBI hinges closer to what the Bruenig piece mentioned in that above article. A more modest UBI that serves to stack with existing benefits first and focuses on the poor. I don't see getting rid of programs that have been effective before we actually see UBI working, we can expand it after we're sure we haven't dumped good programs for a less sustainable model.

How to Cut the Poverty Rate in Half (It's Easy)

After seeing what happened to the ACA even with Dem majorities everywhere, I don't trust the Yang model to make it through without concessions that end up harmful.
 

FAH1223

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Because the model Yang is using sounds an awful lot like what people like Friedman and Charles Murray have advocated for in the past. The core disagreement from lefties being that the Murray model gets rid of programs that have actually been successful.

The Conservative Case for a Guaranteed Basic Income



My philosophy on UBI hinges closer to what the Bruenig piece mentioned in that above article. A more modest UBI that serves to stack with existing benefits first and focuses on the poor. I don't see getting rid of programs that have been effective before we actually see UBI working, we can expand it after we're sure we haven't dumped good programs for a less sustainable model.

How to Cut the Poverty Rate in Half (It's Easy)

After seeing what happened to the ACA even with Dem majorities everywhere, I don't trust the Yang model to make it through without concessions that end up harmful.

If only the Senate Dems in 1971 passed the UBI that Nixon would have signed into law and passed the House twice :damn:
 

Shogun

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Campaign starting to have trouble raising money for the first time that I've noticed.
Its been fun...Team Warren, I guess
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