An Actual NUBIAN man writes a letter to hoteps/ankhs who culturally appropriate his people

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You can't pin down DNA markers in Africans like you would do a European or Asian.

Some African tribes are constantly moving from country to country.
 

godkiller

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They're are not saying the Ancient Egyptians were West, South or Central African and from those regions. But instead that the 18th dynasty mummies had STR values like modern day populations from those regions.

I didn't read the study wrong; your bolded statement is a misunderstanding of the study and its correlates. STR values are DNA repeats on the Y chromosome, which is to say they are simply genes. Saying one population has the same STR values as another is the same as saying said population as the same ancestral genes as another population. Accordingly, Ancient Egyptians having STR values found in West, South and Central Africans is the same as saying Ancient Egyptians have the same genes as found in West, South and Central Africans. In other words, I didn't misread anything, the one who is misreading is you. Ancient Egyptians were part West, Central and South African as identified by study.

This was because during the wet Sahara ancestors of Niger-Congo speakers lived in the Sahara. And them and other African groups like the ancestors of Afro-Asiatic people and more importantly Nilo-Saharan speakers migrated to the Nile Valley and started mixing. This why I'm starting to believe while the Ancient Egyptians were African and black, they were a unique kind of Africans due to all the mixing and their roots in the Green Sahara.

They were still Northeast African though.

Identifying migration patterns is unnecessary as far as my argument goes. Since we already know their racial background, we can refute any arguments related to that contingency. Moreover you can't say the Ancient Egyptians were "Northeast African".
 
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godkiller

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You can't pin down DNA markers in Africans like you would do a European or Asian.

Some African tribes are constantly moving from country to country.

Actually yes, one can pin down DNA markers in Africans the same as Europeans given the appropriate tools and power. African tribes moving around is no more a barrier than Europeans, who in fact move around as much or more than Africans since Europe is so small.
 

Bawon Samedi

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I didn't read the study wrong; your bolded statement is a misunderstanding of the study and its correlates. STR values are DNA repeats on the Y chromosome, which to say they are simply genes. So saying one population has the same STR as another is the same as saying said population as the same ancestral genes as another population. Accordingly, Ancient Egyptians having STR values found in West, South and Central Africans is the same as saying Ancient Egyptians have the same genes as found in West, South and Central Africans. In other words, I didn't misread anything, the one who is misreading is you.

No, don't try to backtrack. I know what STR are and you don't have to try to school me on something I already know.

You tried to say the Ancient Egyptians were West, Central and South African.
QUOTE="Roddy Right, post: 19124361, member: 9442"]Also, since the Ancient Egyptians were Southern African/Great Lakes African/West African/Central African mixed--as proven by DNATribes.com[/QUOTE]

The 18th dynasty may have had STRs found in modern populations from those areas, but that does not mean they were West, Central or Southern African. Especially considering that the people who had those STR values did not even in those regions when Ancient Egypt was forming.
 

godkiller

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No, don't try to backtrack. I know what STR are and you don't have to try to school me on something I already know.

You tried to say the Ancient Egyptians were West, Central and South African.

You evidently don't know what STRs are since you claimed

Also, since the Ancient Egyptians were Southern African/Great Lakes African/West African/Central African mixed--as proven by DNATribes.com

The 18th dynasty may have had STRs found in modern populations from those areas, but that does not mean they were West, Central or Southern African. Especially considering that the people who had those STR values did not even in those regions when Ancient Egypt was forming.

You evidently don't know or else don't understand what STRs are. STRs are basically "junk genes" found on the Y-chromosome. So they're genes. Following that notion, my saying the Ancient Egyptians were Southern African/Great Lakes African/West African and Central African mixed (Central Africans can also be Great Lakes or West) is correct, since the Ancient Egyptians' DNA carried substantial portions of all these populations' genes, same as the African disapora, whom too are variously mixed with black African lineages. This isn't rocket science.

And to be fair, we don't know when peoples formed or did not form. All we know is that the Ancient Egyptians have genes which match black African's, same as any other black person, or same as the Romans with Europeans, or same as a pair or brothers, etc. If you don't doubt the Romans were Europeans, there is no more reason to doubt the Ancient Egyptians were black Africans. The amount of DNA evidence is the same.
 

Bawon Samedi

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Oh I see you edited your post.

Identifying migration patterns is unnecessary as far as my argument goes. Since we already know their racial background, we can refute any arguments related to that contingency. Moreover you can't say the Ancient Egyptians were "Northeast African".

First off, migration patters IS necessary i knowing WHICH African group migrated into Egypt. Sure we know what "race" they were, but can you tell me which African group lived on the Nile Valley the longest and who are recent migrates?

And as for the bolded, YES I CAN. Why? Because for one Ancient Egypt formed in Northeast Africa. Most of their culture, language and religion is from Northeast Africa. But what you look over is the fact that right in front of your eyes the Great Lake regions shows the highest for MLI scores. The Great Lake Region which represents Nilotic speakers who are *drum roll* FROM Northeast Africa!
 
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Actually yes, one can pin down DNA markers in Africans the same as Europeans given the appropriate tools and power. African tribes moving around is no more a barrier than Europeans, who in fact move around as much or more than Africans since Europe is so small.

The only people I can think of that move around in Europe are Gypsies and Jews. But compared to Africans they don't move around as much.

Europeans haven't had Nomadic people for 100+ years now.

You got tribes like the Fula who go from West Africa, East Africa and North Africa.
 

Insun Park

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:wow: Black Americans

we all we got



dont NOBODY got love for us



They quick to point out that "you not really African":dame:






also
imagine how much of a bytch ass hater c00n you gotta be
to use "militants" as a joke:wow:
Black Americans don't understand how the world works

I say this as one myself

You won't see the Japanese buddying up with Chinese because they're both Asian and "they're all the same to white people!"

People look out for those who not only share their appearance but their history, culture and lineage as well.

Yet black Americans seem to be very desperate for allies. Whether it's trying to buddy up to Africans or trying to buddy up to other "POC"

Maybe it's because subconsciously we know we're countryless so we feel like we can't just be independent so we look for allies to rely on in case shyt hits the fan.
 

godkiller

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Oh I see you edited your post.



First off, migration patters IS necessary i knowing WHICH African group migrated into Egypt. Sure we know what "race" they were, but can you tell me which African group lived on the Nile Valley the longest and who are recent migrates?

And as for the bolded, YES I CAN. Why? Because for one Ancient Egypt formed in Northeast Africa. Most of their culture, language and religion is from Northeast Africa. But what you look over is the fact that right in front of your eyes the Great Lake regions shows the highest for MLI scores. The Great Lake Region which represents Nilotic speakers who are *drum roll* FROM Northeast Africa!

First, migration is secondary to race. Second, I prefer to use genes to map migration, not speculation like you do. To elaborate, Ancient Egypt's foundings are clearly not in Northeast Africa. Ancient Egyptians ceremonially wore leopard skins after all. Only Southern Africans like the Zulu wear leopard skins and leopards only thrive below the Sahara desert where black Africans do. Since Ancient Egyptians are heavily Southern African genetically, with Southern African culturalisms to boot, the implication is that their origins hail somewhere in Central/West Africa . Furthermore the Eb1b1a haplogroup found in Pharaoh Ramses maps exactly where I said:
"The E-M2 branches are the predominant lineage in Western Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, and the southern parts of Eastern Africa.

The lack of this haplogroup in Northeast Africa and abundance of said haplogroup in West Africa implies the Ancient Egyptians likely migrated from Central/West Africa, same as the Zulu.
 

Bawon Samedi

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You evidently don't know or else don't understand what STRs are. STRs are basically "junk genes" found on the Y-chromosome. So they're genes. Following that notion, my saying the Ancient Egyptians were Southern African/Great Lakes African/West African and Central African mixed (Central Africans can also be Great Lakes or West) is correct, since the Ancient Egyptians' DNA carried substantial portions of all these populations' genes, same as the African disapora, whom too are variously mixed with black African lineages. This isn't rocket science.

You keep trying to tell me things I already know while ignoring the things I say.

You keep being hard headed and not getting that the people who carried those STR values were NOT from West, South or Central Africa. But instead during the predynastic period of Egypt they were carried by proto Niger-Congo speakers who lived in the Sahara. During the drying of the desert one group went west towards the Niger River and one group went east towards the Nile Valley.

So how the heck can the Ancient Egyptians have been West, Central or South African when their ancestors weren't even from there? More importantly this is only for the 18th dynasty... But anyways it would be more correct to say that the Ancient Egyptians showed AFFINITY to people from those regions, NOT that they WERE those people... You are clearly a laymen. And yes again the Ancient Egyptians were Northeast African, Great Lake region shows the highest MLI scores for the Amarna mummies. And the Great Lake Region is suppose to represent Nilotic speakers who are FROM Northeast Africa.

And to be fair, we don't know when peoples formed or did not form. All we know is that the Ancient Egyptians have genes which match black African's, same as any other black person, or same as the Romans with Europeans, or same as a pair or brothers, etc. If you don't doubt the Romans were Europeans, there is no more reason to doubt the Ancient Egyptians were black Africans. The amount of DNA evidence is the same.

Wait what? We already know that before dynastic Egypt that the Ancient Egyptians had ancestry in the wet Sahara and Nile valley. What are you talking about?
 

godkiller

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You keep trying to tell me things I already know while ignoring the things I say.

You keep being hard headed and not getting that the people who carried those STR values were NOT from West, South or Central Africa. But instead during the predynastic period of Egypt they were carried by proto Niger-Congo speakers who lived in the Sahara. During the drying of the desert one group went west towards the Niger River and one group went east towards the Nile Valley.

So how the heck can the Ancient Egyptians have been West, Central or South African when their ancestors weren't even from there? More importantly this is only for the 18th dynasty... But anyways it would be more correct to say that the Ancient Egyptians showed AFFINITY to people from those regions, NOT that they WERE those people... You are clearly a laymen. And yes again the Ancient Egyptians were Northeast African, Great Lake region shows the highest MLI scores for the Amarna mummies. And the Great Lake Region is suppose to represent Nilotic speakers who are FROM Northeast Africa.

I have responded to all which is relevant, which not all of you post is. The Ancient Egyptians are whatever the studies say they are and the peoples whom are related or comprise them are too. It's another issue entirely to speculate on *when* Egyptians formed and "how" they did versus what they were. Suffice to say, if the Ancient Egyptians had black genes (which they did)--West, Central and South--they are black people. same as every other people on Earth and on the history of Earth who have black genes and are therefore black. Having black genes does not equate to having an "affinity" towards blacks; STR matching does not equal affinity, it equals match. A four-legged herbivore STR test coming back as "goat" is basically the same as saying the four-legged herbivore is a goat.

Wait what? We already know that before dynastic Egypt that the Ancient Egyptians had ancestry in the wet Sahara and Nile valley. What are you talking about?​
We? I know what the DNA tells me, which is that Ancient Egyptian pharaoh' haplogroup is found most among West/Central Africans and NOT among North or East Africans, which implies Ancient Egyptians genetically hail from the former area. Culturally they had some similarities to the Sahel as well, but that is culture not race.
 
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Bawon Samedi

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I prefer to use genes to map migration, not speculation like you do. To elaborate, Ancient Egypt's foundings are clearly not in Northeast Africa. Ancient Egyptians ceremonially wore leopard skins after all. Only Southern Africans like the Zulu wear leopard skins and leopards only thrive below the Sahara desert where black Africans do. Ancient Egyptians are heavily Southern African, with Southern African culturalisms to boot, which implies their origin comes somewhere from there. Furthermore the Eb1b1a haplogroup found in Pharaoh Ramses maps exactly where I said:
"The E-M2 branches are the predominant lineage in Western Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, and the southern parts of Eastern Africa.

The lack of this haplogroup in Northeast Africa implies the Ancient Egyptians migrated from somewhere in the above regions.

Lol! I'm doing speculation? Than what the hell are you doing with the bolded? So now you're saying that only the Zulus wore leopard skin? Like I said you're clearly a layman. The Nubians also wore Leopard skin.
pict_md_dnBdYHFnYWU1Oz4zPDkoYH53YGJicCs4bXtgaTNnbG5WT0QMVEdcREpfS0wDGhsZFkJESkYIBAMACQ4VS15K.jpg


The Nubians were mostly Nilotic people and from Northeast Africa. Leopard skin is a common clothing throughout Africa. Again what the hell are you talking about.

How about you stop rambling on about things you don't understand and read what I post clearly so you don't embarrass yourself. The MLI scores are right in front of your face. Its mostly Great Lake Region, which is used to represent Nilotic speakers. Stop trying to deny the Northeast African origins of Egypt will silly speculations.

Most studies point to Egyptian culture and genetics being more similar to Nilotic speakers today. More importantly Egypt is seen as a Sudanese transplant.




To sum up, Nubia is Egypt’s African ancestor. What linked Ancient Egypt to the rest of the North African cultures is this strong tie with the Nubian pastoral nomadic lifestyle, the same pastoral background commonly shared by most of the ancient Saharan and modern sub-Saharan societies. Thus, not only did Nubia have a prominent role in the origin of Ancient Egypt, it was also a key area for the origin of the entire African pastoral tradition.
Click to expand...​

http://www.academia.edu/545582/The_..._Africa_A_View_from_the_Archaeological_Record




The Neolithic cultures in northern Egypt show evidence over time of varying contacts, with Saharan influences the most dominant. In the case of food procurement, ancestral Egyptians living on Lake Fayum added to their tradition of foraging by raising Near Eastern domesticated plants (wheat and barley) and animals (sheep and goats). Domesticated cattle came from the Sahara but may also have come from the Near East. Considering that wheat and barley agriculture was practiced in Asia (the Near East) 2,000 years before it was in Egypt, it is important to note that the early Egyptian way of life did not change abruptly at this time (around 5000 B.C.), which is what one would expect if Egypt had simply been peopled by farmers migrating from the Near East. These early Egyptians incorporated the new food stuffs and techniques—and likely some people—into their culture and society on their own terms.The major features of cultural and political development that led to dynastic Egypt originated in southern Egypt during what is called the predynastic period. Some evidence suggests that predynastic Egyptian and early Nubian cultures had ties to the early Saharan cultures and shared a Saharo-Nilotic heritage. Perhaps the earliest predynastic culture, the Badarian-Tasian* (4400 B.C. or earlier, to 4000 B.C.), had the clearest ties to Saharan cultures in the desert west of Nubia.
Click to expand...​

National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com

the question of the origin of the royal ‘ka’ and the other concerns the origin of the red and white crowns. Wilkinson presents strong evidence that Naqada I was an archetypal representative of the traditional African cattle-culture, a type of society that still exists in a remarkably pure form in the southern Sudan, despite years of civil war. Among Sudanese Nilotes, cattle are raised as symbols of wealth, as the medium for all social transactions (like marriage), and as sources of renewable food (blood and milk). The people rarely kill cattle for meat, which they obtain by hunting wild game. Wilkinson’s overview of the evidence for Naqada I transhumance and cattle burial, coupled with his analysis of the rock art, suggests that Egyptian civilization sprang from a society of broadly similar characteristics. Cows with artificially deformed horns, so common among Nilotes today, are often featured in the early rock art of Egypt and Sudan as well as in Egyptian dynastic art (Kendall 1989, 680–88, fig. 1, 9–12). Even the historic Egyptian symbols of royal office — the crook and the flail — recall a time when the king was seen as the chief herdsman of his people.
Click to expand...​
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How the heck is this not Northeast African. Ancient Egyptians even built in rounded and not squared huts like Nilotic speakers do today.
35003583_99af043705.jpg


Study African history, culture and bio-anthropology before you make assumptions.
 

Citi Trends

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nonsensical bullshyt made by some gay nikka with dikks on his tumblr obviously to cause division and confusion and nikkas running with it :francis:
we got people in here calling folks' ancestors bytches for being enslaved and attacking us for having "no culture"(lol wut)

appropriating the culture of a word white people made for you. word, thats how you feel? :francis:
 

Bawon Samedi

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I have responded to all which is relevant, which not all of you post is. The Ancient Egyptians are whatever the studies say they are and the peoples whom are related or comprise them are too. It's another issue entirely to speculate on *when* Egyptians formed and "how" they did versus what they were. Suffice to say, if the Ancient Egyptians had black genes (which they did)--West, Central and South--they are black people. same as every other people on Earth and on the history of Earth who have black genes and are therefore black. Having black genes does not equate to having an "affinity" towards blacks; STR matching does not equal affinity, it equals match. A four-legged herbivore STR test coming back as "goat" is basically the same as saying the four-legged herbivore is a goat.
There is no such thing as "black genes" Mr.Laymen. We do know how the people of Ancient Egypt formed its called looking at migration which you ignore.

But more importantly I forgot that you do not see Northeast Africa as African. You also forget that Nilotic people. These people.
1-nilotic-peoples.jpg


Are Northeast African. And do you even know what "affinity" means. But anyways prove that Ancient Egyptians are from South, Central or West Africa. And prove that their culture, religion and genes are from those locations. And use academic sources.:wink:

And btw King Ramses III e1b1a is from Northeast Africa just to let you know.:wink:

We? I know what the DNA tells me, which is that Ancient Egyptian pharaoh' haplogroup is found most among West/Central Africans and NOT among North or East Africans, which implies Ancient Egyptians genetically hail from the former area. Culturally they had some similarities to the Sahel as well, but that is culture not race.

You mean eb1ba aka E-M2 which arose in Northeast Africa!:ohmy:
Haplogroup+E1b1a+Migration+Map.jpg
 

godkiller

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Lol! I'm doing speculation? Than what the hell are you doing with the bolded? So now you're saying that only the Zulus wore leopard skin? Like I said you're clearly a layman. The Nubians also wore Leopard skin.
pict_md_dnBdYHFnYWU1Oz4zPDkoYH53YGJicCs4bXtgaTNnbG5WT0QMVEdcREpfS0wDGhsZFkJESkYIBAMACQ4VS15K.jpg


The Nubians were mostly Nilotic people and from Northeast Africa. Leopard skin is a common clothing throughout Africa. Again what the hell are you talking about.

How about you stop rambling on about things you don't understand and read what I post clearly so you don't embarrass yourself. The MLI scores are right in front of your face. Its mostly Great Lake Region, which is used to represent Nilotic speakers. Stop trying to deny the Northeast African origins of Egypt will silly speculations.

Most studies point to Egyptian culture and genetics being more similar to Nilotic speakers today. More importantly Egypt is seen as a Sudanese transplant.


http://www.academia.edu/545582/The_..._Africa_A_View_from_the_Archaeological_Record


National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com



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How the heck is this not Northeast African. Ancient Egyptians even built in rounded and not squared huts like Nilotic speakers do today.
35003583_99af043705.jpg

Like I said, I use genes to map migration. I only provided the leopard skin cultural connection because Ancient Egyptians registered as heavily Southern African genetically. Only groups like the Zulu and thereabouts ceremonially wear leopard skins. So West/Central and South Africa seems to be the Egyptians' origin, as such matches their culture AND genes.
Contrary to what you said earlier, Northeast Afriacns do not wear leopard skins for leopards thrive below the desert and in the more tropical parts of Africa. That is where the Egyptians originate.

Also, if Eb1b1a originated in Northeast Africa, its people would have the gene. They don't which implies Eb1b1a may have originated in West/Central Africa.
 
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