Always thought this came from Africa or Caribbean ...actually it was New Orleans

[IllmaticDelta]

hook has to be taken from some song from Louisiana artist or a local chant, right?

that phrase came from southern black dialect

 

[King Khufu]

Its Yoruba in Creole.
They so yes it does come from Africa.
It means "God is coming to free us."

 

[King Khufu]

In fact many music starting from the blues till now if you listen to it (even in reverse) always had key phrases or passages of African spells. We just cant let cacs know what it means

 

[get these nets]

that phrase came from southern black dialect

I always associate "Who Dat?" with Louisiana.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I always associate "Who Dat?" with Louisiana.

the phrase later became popularized with football in Louisianna

• The use of "Who Dat" as a cheer at athletic events predates the 1983 WVUE story by as much as a decade. Although its origin is murky, Nicholls State University English professor Shana Walton, who led a research team hired by the NFL, said in 2010 that the chant was being used in the early 1970s by majority-black schools in South Louisiana.
• The phrase "Who Dat" in a non-athletic context can be traced back further, to the 1890s and a song called "Who Dat Say Chicken in Dis Crowd," a song from Edward E. Rice's vaudeville show "Summer Nights." In the 20th century it was part of a vaudeville and minstrel show comedy bit in which one character would ask, "Who dat?," with another responding, "Who dat say, 'Who dat?'"
• Near the end of the 1977 comedy "Smokey and the Bandit," after Burt Reynolds' character raises Jackie Gleason's lawman character on the radio, Gleason responds -- clear as day -- with the words, "Who dat?"
• 
  Who Dat? In 1983, broadcaster Sal Monistere heard the Who Dat chant at the Superdome and got the idea of turning it into a song that could be played on the radio. Recruiting Aaron Neville to do the singing, they recorded the song "Who Dat?" at First Take recording studio, owned by Monistere's brother. It became a local hit.
• The "Who Dat" chant on that recording was done by five Saints players -- Dave Waymer, Brad Edelman, John Hill, Reggie Lewis and Louis Oubre -- performing as "The Singing Saints."
• Neville, a longtime Saints fan, didn't have to be asked twice to participate. "It (was) a no-brainer," Neville said in 2010. "I had been with the Saints since the late '60s when they used to come see me and my brothers. It was a special treat for me being in with some of the Saints, doing the 'Who dat?' cheer."

A 'Who Dat' history: The story behind the New Orleans Saints rallying cry

• 
  
  
  
  

 

[Samori Toure]

In fact many music starting from the blues till now if you listen to it (even in reverse) always had key phrases or passages of African spells. We just cant let cacs know what it means

The Blues are from Mali.

 

[get these nets]

the phrase later became popularized with football in Louisianna









A 'Who Dat' history: The story behind the New Orleans Saints rallying cry

• 
  
  
  

Thanks

The Cajun alligator, though

 

[get these nets]

'

Here is an important distinction. America became powerful and culturally inlfuential across the world at that time. Hollywood films played across the world, and American music was played all over the planet....jazz,blues, rock roll,soul,etc. These American music genres were played in the Caribbean and Puerto Rico and had influence on the music that aleady existed there.
I think NYC was one of the only parts of the country where you could say that the reverse was happening. That AAs were regularly being exposed to and being inlfuenced by Caribbean and Puerto Rican music



PERIOD

The Music of Africa, By Way of Latin America



NPR Choice page

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

HIP HOP

Listen, fellas....if people want to debate for the sake of debating that's one thing.

Because of where hip hop originated, there's only one logical conclusion that can be reached about it's origin. I would challenge anybody to disagree. Let's examine NYC area from 1920 to roughly 1970
Great Migration of Blacks to the North really began a bit after WW1 started...in mid 19teens
Immigration Act of 1924 closed the lid on non Western European immigration into the country.
The Black and Brown people who were exceptions were Puerto Ricans, who are citizens of US, and people from English speaking Caribbean, who were still British subjects (and qualified for immigration as their countries were part of the UK)

From the early 1920s on, you had AAs from all over the South continuously moving to NYC and bringing their music, church traditions, styles of dance. You had Cariibean people from English speaking islands doing the same. Puerto Ricans, with a strong African cultural presence in their culture, did the same thing. ThEse three groups blended cultures with the AAs whose families were already in NY before any of them came up here. All four groups, living in NYC around each other for 4-5 decades....with influences from other regional AA cultures , mainsteam AA music, and general American pop culture.

Here is an important distinction. America became powerful and culturally inlfuential across the world at that time. Hollywood films played across the world, and American music was played all over the planet....jazz,blues, rock roll,soul,etc. These American music genres were played in the Caribbean and Puerto Rico and had influence on the music that aleady existed there.
I think NYC was one of the only parts of the country where you could say that the reverse was happening. That AAs were regularly being exposed to and being inlfuenced by Caribbean and Puerto Rican music

I believe that this is why the hip hop culture emerged where it did.....not in the Caribbean, not in P.R.., not in the American South, not in another Northern urban area....but in New York City. A perfect storm. It's a stew, the base of the stew is AA, the stove where it's cooked is in America, the ingredients include northern AA , southern AA, Caribbean and Puerto Rican elements.

PERIOD

No.
All the elements in that stew were AA, but there were caribbean and latino SPOONS stirring the pot and taking tastes.
There was no jerk or sofrito added until later.

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

The Music of Africa, By Way of Latin America



NPR Choice page

No.

 

[get these nets]

No.
All the elements in that stew were AA, but there were caribbean and latino SPOONS stirring the pot and taking tastes.
There was no jerk or sofrito added until later.

I made a post citing actual laws, actual immigration patterns and actual cultural exchange taking place.
You can disagree but you cannot refute.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The Music of Africa, By Way of Latin America



NPR Choice page

I checked it out. It really has no correlation to HipHop. HipHop as a given name to a movement happened in NYC but the actual elements were pretty much born outside of NYC except Disco sound systems.


funk = was born in the south
rapping (syncopated rhyming) = was born in the south
early bboy = came from jazz dancing, born in the south
graffiti = born in philadelphia


The first bubblings of HipHop pretty much was void of any direct Puerto Rican in the realm of music/dance, They came later on





even the early ricans in hiphop attest to this

You weren’t an emcee yet, you started late as an emcee?



Right!



What made you cross over to the Black music to be an emcee?



Because of me living in Davidson projects I became head of the tenet patrol.



At 17 years old?



Yes, at seventeen years old! Mr. Davis ran it and he was the boss but I had the keys and I was in charge when he wasn’t there.



O.K. so ya’ll have something like what we have over here. The children that live in the neighborhood come inside the community room, which is on the first floor, to do their home work, arts and crafts, watch t.v. and just stay out of the streets and trouble?



Exactly!



At the same time music would be played in there at different hours.

Right, one day Elrod Hendricks of the Baltimore Orioles was coming by. It was like a get together, a party and Mr. Davis was a friend of Elrod Hendricks. So he was stopping by. I was taken back being as I was a big baseball fan. At the time I didn’t know anything about a D.J. or big time party, but I felt we could put a record player in there and charge everybody a dollar.

Like I said I was a big baseball fan and when I was growing up we used to play soft ball in Saint Mary’s park. One day on the way back from playing baseball these guys were playing music and I was like check this out. So I went in there. There was about 12 of us, but the guys didn’t want to go in there. They were like oh man there is a lot of black guys in there. I was like man we are just going over there to listen to some music….don’t look at nobody!



(We both start to laugh.)

I understand. What made you appreciate or gravitate to hip hop music?



The music was something different! It was louder, and more people were involved it seemed. One day I was given a flyer to go to 18 Park. The L- Brothers and The Brothers Bass were going to be there.



I never heard of the Brothers Bass.



I can’t remember who they were at the moment. But they ran with the L- Brothers and Flash at this time. I would just stand there and watch and say to my self “wow look at them.” They used to also play over on Union Avenue at this Park called 23 over there by Morris High School. That was close to were I lived. Being as A.J. was taking a long time to get at me to perform; I went over to Mean Gene and gave him the same proposal. He agreed, and it was good. The next time they would have their party I went and helped out. I asked can I help and they said sure. They next time they seen me they asked if I would like to come to their party, I said sure and they let me in free. This party was at the Sparkle. To be honest Kevin and Rob were the first Emcee’s I ever seen. They were pretty good, and I would go to all their little hooky parties at place like Rock City that they would also call Duck City, which was over there on 169th street and Prospect. Also there was another spot which was a store on 169th street and Union Avenue. Little Rodney Cee lived around the corner from it. Little Rodney Cee’s brother and his partner Wayne kind of ran the place, so they would play music in there. I used to hang out there too because it was a block away from my house. From hanging out I learned a lot of Kevin and Rob’s rhymes which weren’t that many at that time.


Is it safe to say that Busy Bee vouched for you to be an L- Brother?

No, it was a coincidence that we were together. I went to the L- Brothers practice but I first got down with Butchie Gee and them. I have to say if it wasn’t for me seeing D.J. A.J. I would not have been a rapper at all. With the L- Brothers that was Gene’s thing. Their manager at the time was a Jamaican guy named Trevor, you hear it in the rhyme. “And Trevor is our manager and were down with the L- Brothers crew!” One day I was in front of Theodore’s house 168th street and Boston Road. I was just hanging out on the stoop. If I wasn’t playing baseball, that was the place to be. Mean Gene came up to me and said “hey come over here, I want to talk to you.” He took me down the hill to Webster Avenue. Kev and Rob were standing by the stoop. They take me up the stairs to this weed spot that everybody used to cop weed from. You would knock on the door and some one would look through the peep hole and you would pass 5 or 3 dollars through. You would wait a minute and a nickel or tray bag would come through. You had to know these people to be able to get weed from them, and I was known by hanging out with the L- Brothers. Plus I was becoming pretty popular with the softball and the music. In my neck of the woods I was the man. The first thing Kev said to me when we stepped inside was “you are going to listen to what the F--- I tell you.” He let me know that he was the man. Rob said we are going to put you down with a real crew.



Those were Kev’s exact words, “you are going to listen to what the F--- I tell you.”

(Ruby Dee laughs.) Yeah that was probably word for word what he said pretty much in a nut shell. But that was said in a nice way, it wasn’t sarcastic or threatening! If I thought it was disrespectful they would have had to tag team me, because I was also one of those type of dudes you can’t tell me nothing. I was 19 years old 187lb.s and I was one of those dudes that was not having it, and I hit first.

When I got up there they were sitting on top of the speakers. I was a little scared because I was like this is the weed spot, and with all these black dudes they are going to lynch me. It was hang a Puerto Rican day today. I don’t know. I was like whoa! They were all there, Theodore, Gene, Kev, Rob and Busy Bee. It wasn’t a try out, Kevin and Rob just came out and said you are down.



What were your feelings on that?



Well at the time I really didn’t know what I was doing. I was just proud to be there! I did feel like now I can get some of my people in the party.


I knew about the fame and how big it was getting but this was really just something I did as a hobby but it started to get good and I started to make money. The first party I did at the P.A.L. I made $87! They gave me 87 one dollar bills. Whooooooa!



(We both start laughing.)



I think at that time minimum wage was $2.75 to $3.35 an hour at that time. What I made that night was what some cats was getting in a whole week.



That’s right.



So I remember them giving me $87 in singles in the bathroom. I remember thinking I know they screwing me over by giving me a whole pack of ones so I don’t say anything, but that’s cool! (Ruby in a serious voice then says) Maybe I am wrong, maybe that did not go down like that. I just remember when we were in the bathroom when they paid me and I was like “look at these marenos, these black guys giving me all these ones to make it look like a big knot.” I thought about that. I am not going to deny it. I said “look at these mother f------! It’s cool (Ruby Dee is laughing now.) keep jerking me.” But I found out we were all getting paid equally later on. In the beginning, and I am just using a number, say if Kev and Rob got a hundred dollars for the show I would get eighty dollars!



Say word!



That was just for a couple of shows but after awhile I was like “hey when we were first doing parties it was all black crowds, but now you got all these Puerto Rican people coming to see me, they are not coming to see ya’ll or just ya’ll!” To shift gears for a minute, I remember saying “Va Ya!” And Kev said “Puerto Rico!” they said “Ho”! That’s how that was invented.



Do you remember any other Spanish emcees or D.J.s back then?



Charlie Chase, Disco Wiz….



Disco Wiz was Caz D.J. right?



Right, he was Puerto Rican. I really don’t remember any one else. Whip was probably out before me, but I got the credit of being the first Puerto Rican. When I got on stage you knew I was Puerto Rican! I talked Spanish on the mic.



Did you ever have Spanish rhymes?



Yeah we had one routine when we battled the Funky 4 at the Audubon Ballroom. We all had our own rhyme to say when it was your turn. When it was my turn I said in Spanish Ruby Dee the romantic and Kev said hold up and one by one Dot, Whip and Rob said hold up! Hold Up, Hold Up, Hold Up! Ruby Dee, Ruby Dee, Ruby Dee Ruby Dee this is not Puerto Rico this is America. Boom then I bust into Fantastic Romantic Five, and the whole crew would then come in.

Ruby Dee of The Jr



.
.

............puerto ricans just so happen to be the first non-blacks to be invited into the culture but they CLEARLY weren't there from the start or are originators to the foundations of hiphop.

mr wiggles basically admits that ricans were like 2nd and 3rd generation bboys

 

[Geode]

Great thread! Never knew the origins of this song.

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

I made a post citing actual laws, actual immigration patterns and actual cultural exchange taking place.
You can disagree but you cannot refute.

The immigration act that allowed y'all to come in en masse wasn't until the 60s.
We already had toasting in THE FORTIES.
Jamaicans picked that up from the radio, picked up some records, and "created" reggae.
1965-1971 is too short a time period for a few hundred thousand jamaicans sprinkled throughout NYC to influence the millions of black people already living in NYC.
@IllmaticDelta and I have refuted all caribbean claims to AA music multiple times. We influenced THEM and ONE JAMAICAN was an early participant.
Even the Ricans weren't an INTEGRAL PART of the DEVELOPMENT, they were just the VERY FIRST non aas to come around...they're US CITIZENS...but they did not put any ingredients into the stew. It is an AA culture that has multiple participants.
We can make way more of a claim on jamaican music...we literally FATHERED it, unlike Herc.
Where did King Tubby and Coxsone Dodd buy records and hear AFRAM JIVE TALK TOASTING?
HMMM....HMMM..
"Do the reggay" is a SKA song.
Ska is a Jamaican spin on Afram Rock N Roll.
Now show me the rap version of those facts involving random islanders, so I can laugh at the lies.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I made a post citing actual laws, actual immigration patterns and actual cultural exchange taking place.
You can disagree but you cannot refute.

that segment of blacks and latinos (1920s to 1960's) were the not the same segment that was tied to the gangs and later hiphop, The rican and black gangs were rivals as talked about here



they talk about it in here too

The Black Spades was teenagers who formed to fight back caucasian/puerto rican gangs and racist in the Bronx NY...The Original Black Spades even chased heroin dealers and addicts out the community...The Black Spades were the first to put on large outside jams in the parks and inside the N.Y.C.H.A "projects" ...The Spades had a subculture which became the foundation and start of Hip Hop Culture...Brooklyn and Queens had chapters and divisions of Black Spades ..There was chapters and divisions of Black Spades all around New York City and even few other states.