Always thought this came from Africa or Caribbean ...actually it was New Orleans

[TEH]

HIP HOP

Listen, fellas....if people want to debate for the sake of debating that's one thing.

Because of where hip hop originated, there's only one logical conclusion that can be reached about it's origin. I would challenge anybody to disagree. Let's examine NYC area from 1920 to roughly 1970
Great Migration of Blacks to the North really began a bit after WW1 started...in mid 19teens
Immigration Act of 1924 closed the lid on non Western European immigration into the country.
The Black and Brown people who were exceptions were Puerto Ricans, who are citizens of US, and people from English speaking Caribbean, who were still British subjects (and qualified for immigration as their countries were part of the UK)

From the early 1920s on, you had AAs from all over the South continuously moving to NYC and bringing their music, church traditions, styles of dance. You had Cariibean people from English speaking islands doing the same. Puerto Ricans, with a strong African cultural presence in their culture, did the same thing. ThEse three groups blended cultures with the AAs whose families were already in NY before any of them came up here. All four groups, living in NYC around each other for 4-5 decades....with influences from other regional AA cultures , mainsteam AA music, and general American pop culture.

Here is an important distinction. America became powerful and culturally inlfuential across the world at that time. Hollywood films played across the world, and American music was played all over the planet....jazz,blues, rock roll,soul,etc. These American music genres were played in the Caribbean and Puerto Rico and had influence on the music that aleady existed there.
I think NYC was one of the only parts of the country where you could say that the reverse was happening. That AAs were regularly being exposed to and being inlfuenced by Caribbean and Puerto Rican music

I believe that this is why the hip hop culture emerged where it did.....not in the Caribbean, not in P.R.., not in the American South, not in another Northern urban area....but in New York City. A perfect storm. It's a stew, the base of the stew is AA, the stove where it's cooked is in America, the ingredients include northern AA , southern AA, Caribbean and Puerto Rican elements.

PERIOD.

Basically yeah

And all of those cultures produced the rappers, graffiti artists, dancers and DJs that we all love ... if you look at their roots ....

 

[Biscayne]

What a map...

 

[Biscayne]

"​

SIDENOTE:
There is also an Alan Lomax Mississippi delta recording I cant find of two black women on a porch "rapping" a church/blues/folk song.
(It was on YouTube but not anymore ...the video started with a guy who is a grave digger ended with a bunch of people in a juke joint toasting/signifying)

I've seen that vid. @xoxodede Had a thread on it. I think the vid was called "I ain't Lying: Mississippi Folktales"

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

I Ain't Lying | Folkstreams

The women start at 09:25

The toasting at the juke joint starts at 18:30

This is the source website for the old YouTube channel, they have ALOT more stuff on here. This stuff is a goldmine for people connecting the dots on AA culture.

You are absolutely right hats off to ya

I've been to that sight before I just didn't know it was a video from them. It used to be that anytime I typed in something like...

• "Blues documentary"
• "Mississippi delta"

...that full documentary would pop up. I would then follow the links to folkstreams web site. All they have on youtube now is a short teaser...

​

SIDENOTE:
I watched a great documentary on folkstreams 3-4 years ago about a family who traced their roots back to Africa(Sierra Leone ....or Liberia) because of a song that was passed down. An African linguistic student recognized the language and said it was from his country. They then spent years looking for anyone in the country who knew the song and eventually found women who kept the song alive because they were told thats how they would find each other(or something along those line)
They eventually were able to introduced both sides of the family to each other again.

I need to find that video again, would make a good thread ...would make a great movie also






EDIT:
Here it is... Family Across the Sea | Folkstreams

Trailer


Full video

​

 

[get these nets]

Basically yeah

And all of those cultures produced the rappers, graffiti artists, dancers and DJs that we all love ... if you look at their roots ....

FACTS.
I think people have written Puerto Ricans out of hip hop history because they think hip hop just means rappers .
If they looked at old flyers, old footage, album covers, pictures of graff artists next to their burners(or tags)..they'd see Puerto Ricans there.

But, yes.....people participating in all the elements were from all those backgrounds.
It started here., was cultivated here...the base is CLEARLY AA, but the African diaspora in the Western Hemisphere is HUGE...and hip hop is really distinct elements of that diapora coming together and birthing something new.

 

[Deuterion]

FACTS.
I think people have written Puerto Ricans out of hip hop history because they think hip hop just means rappers .
If they looked at old flyers, old footage, album covers, pictures of graff artists next to their burners(or tags)..they'd see Puerto Ricans there.

But, yes.....people participating in all the elements were from all those backgrounds.
It started here., was cultivated here...the base is CLEARLY AA, but the African diaspora in the Western Hemisphere is HUGE...and hip hop is really distinct elements of that diapora coming together and birthing something new.

It would make more sense to drop the all the European terms like Puerto Rican and American and call it a culture that derived from the experiences of Africans in the New World. Obviously not all Puerto Ricans are African and neither are all African Americans but the two cultures have a similar root it's just that diverging paths have led to one of the Africans being named Robert and the other one being named Roberto. At the end of the day though the people had similar histories and ecologies so in my opinion the distinctions while understandable often obfuscate the issue IMO.

 

[Lost1]

Apparently there has been a couple of attempts at translating the non English phrases in the song. Even the original writer doesn't know what they mean.

i'm pretty sure that "aku" means "hello" in Yoruba....came across that info a long time ago

there are probably some other languages in Africa with a greeting that sounds similar

but yeah this "iko! iko!" part is probably "hello! hello!" and iko is probably a corruption or alternative pronunciation Yoruba "aku"

maybe if there is someone on this forum that knows Yoruba they can confirm if that is true (that aku means hello)

 

[im_sleep]

You are absolutely right hats off to ya

I've been to that sight before I just didn't know it was a video from them. It used to be that anytime I typed in something like...

• "Blues documentary"
• "Mississippi delta"

...and that full documentary would pop up. I would then follow the links to folkstreams web site. All they have on youtube now is a short teaser...

​

SIDENOTE:
I watched a great documentary on folkstreams 3-4 years ago about a family who traced their roots back to Africa(Sierra Leone ....or Liberia) because of a song that was passed down. An African linguistic student recognized the language and said it was from his country. They then spent years looking for anyone in the country who knew the song and eventually found women who kept the song alive because they were told thats how they would find each other(or something along those line)
They eventually were able to introduced both sides of the family to each other again.

I need to find that video again, would make a good thread ...would make a great movie also

Is it this?
Family Across the Sea | Folkstreams

 

[get these nets]

It would make more sense to drop the all the European terms like Puerto Rican and American and call it a culture that derived from the experiences of Africans in the New World. Obviously not all Puerto Ricans are African and neither are all African Americans but the two cultures have a similar root and diverging paths that have led to one of the Africans being named Robert and the other one being named Roberto. At the end of the day though the people had similar histories and ecologies so in my opinion the distinctions while understandable often obfuscate the issue IMO.

I can respect this. At the same time, we show respect to the unique stories of each group in the diaspora.

People over here are part of composite African cultures and people on the same wavelength can see the similarities between the diasporan groups. People who are around enough cont. Africans can see the similarities we share with them also.

 

[Lost1]

New Orleans song that tells of a parade collision between two "tribes" of Mardi Gras Indians. The lyrics are derived from Indian chants and popular catchphrases. The song, under the original title "Jock-A-Mo", was written in 1953 by James "Sugar Boy" Crawford in New Orleans, but has spread so widely that to popular belief, it is commonly assumed to be a much older folk song.

American Folk songs of black/afram origin

if the song was written by or popularised by a black man (James "Sugar Boy" Crawford) in New Orleans how do they know the lyrics are only derived from "Indian chants and popular catchphrases"?

maybe if it is a "much older folk song" then some of the phrases really are of african origin

I can see "iko" being a greeting of some kind in an African language. "eku" or "aku" in yoruba might be the original word

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

Is it this?
Family Across the Sea | Folkstreams

Yep yep, I already found it and added it(and youtube videos of it) in right after I posted the above...

EDIT:
Here it is... Family Across the Sea | Folkstreams

Trailer


Full video

​

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Wrong as hell

It’s the other way around

Ska was R&B soul to a different time signature which turned into Reggae / Dancehall

ska is straight up from a particular (herky jerky shuffle) rhythm and blues with a heavy off beat that was popular in the 40's and 50s.













jamaicans took that template and mixed with calypso/mento

Early Calypso were also AA influenced
although some Americans like Harry Belafonte sung it too ...

Musical history 101

he's jamaican-american

 

[get these nets]

American Folk songs of black/afram origin

if the song was written by or popularised by a black man (James "Sugar Boy" Crawford) in New Orleans how do they know the lyrics are only derived from "Indian chants and popular catchphrases"?

maybe if it is a "much older folk song" then some of the phrases really are of african origin

I can see "iko" being a greeting of some kind in an African language. "eku" or "aku" in yoruba might be the original word

In the 2 articles posted in first page of this thread ....Crawford says himself that this is where he got the lyrics from. He's quoted in both articles.

Photo of the Mardi Gras Indians is at the top of the first article. Article doesn't explain.....but the MGI are carnival characters...

 

[IllmaticDelta]

American Folk songs of black/afram origin

if the song was written by or popularised by a black man (James "Sugar Boy" Crawford) in New Orleans how do they know the lyrics are only derived from "Indian chants and popular catchphrases"?

maybe if it is a "much older folk song" then some of the phrases really are of african origin

I can see "iko" being a greeting of some kind in an African language. "eku" or "aku" in yoruba might be the original word

mardi gras indians are black people/of african descent, not REAL indians

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I've seen those but I also like these below...

SIDENOTE:
There is also an Alan Lomax Mississippi delta recording I cant find of two black women on a porch "rapping" a church/blues/folk song.
(It was on YouTube but not anymore ...the video started with a guy who is a grave digger ended with a bunch of people in a juke joint toasting/signifying)

a few others

1920s









1940's





1950s