Always thought this came from Africa or Caribbean ...actually it was New Orleans

[videogamestashbox.com]

That's right and is due to the colonial history (catholic Spain & catholic France)..and the infusion of people fleeing St. Domingue in the early 19th century.
SD was the center of colonial French power,culture,etc. New Orleans became the center of western hemisphere French life, even after France gave up dreams of dominating the hemisphere
These institutions still exist, Louisiana Creole culture still exists, and remnants of French culture are still alive in the region over 200 years after becoming part of Anglo Protestant America.

The nonexistent French Canadians in the room with me asked what is your assessment Based on?

​

 

[TNOT]

Fra

The nonexistent French Canadians in the room with me asked what is your assessment Based on?

france gave up control of those areas in northeastern Canada to GB after thr seven years war. What we know as Cajuns in Louisiana are descendants of French colonist who refused to pledge allegiance to the British. They were expelled and settled in southern Louisiana, that’s why that region of the state is called Acadiana.

France also lost the the region where the Cajuns settled, but since it was controlled by Spain they were allowed to speak French, and practice Catholism.

 

[Supper]

Peoples Culuture is driven by religious beliefs. A city with a large black catholic population is influenced by that religion and its adapted practices.

People's culture is the product of their heritage, ancestry, geography, and class much more than religious beliefs, especially in this day and age.

Are you really gonna sit here and tell me that black catholics in New Orleans have more in common culturally with iraqi Chaldeans(who are catholic) in Dearborn MI than they do with black baptist in New Orleans or than Chaldeans do with their fellow Iraqi Orthodox Christian Assyrian cousins? Why don't you go to Dearborn and present that idea to them.

Free peoples of color in early New Orleans (many who came from Haiti) practiced catholism, hence the creation of St. Augustine. Slaves no matter where they came from did not live in the city they lived predominantly in plantations outside of what is considered the city during those times



If New Orleans had more Protestant cultural influences, then the expressions of that culture would be more similar to African Americans in other states. I believe it’s not.

Objectively it is whether you choose to believe it or not. Again...............

The scene varies little from that at the black Baptist church around the corner. But this is the 10:30 Gospel Mass at St. Monica Catholic Church.

Black New Orleans Catholics Already Incorporate Culture Into Worship

Black Catholic pastor of St. Augustine church's holds whooping funeral sermon.
Fr. Jerome LeDoux, revered New Orleans pastor, dies at 88

"Whooping" is most often associated with African American pastors, particularly COGIC (Church Of God In Christ) pastors and some Baptist and Missionary Baptist pastors.

pancocojams: Black Preaching - The Art Of "Whooping" In Sermon Closings (with a video of a sermon & my transcription of that video)

Why does St. Augustine have a gospel choir if they didn't have any black protestant influence?





Why aren't they singing catholic hyms like this?



Black catholics in New Orleans are clearly heavily influenced by the black protestant tradition.

I believe the uniqueness of New Orleans is due to the influences of several different cultures, with each culture exerting influence at different parts of the city’s history.

How are African-Americans in New Orleans any more unique culturally than African-Americans in the Hill country of MS, Afro-seminoles of Texas, or the gullah/geechee of GA & SC? They all have their local distinctions but there are still many very obvious cultural unifiers among all of them common to all African-Americans.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

If New Orleans had more Protestant cultural influences, then the expressions of that culture would be more similar to African Americans in other states. I believe it’s not. I believe the uniqueness of New Orleans is due to the influences of several different cultures, with each culture exerting influence at different parts of the city’s history.

the new orleans catholic based culture share/has things in common with the overall gulf coast black protestant based culture and even further away, carolina/sea islands culture

how else do you think zydeco was founded on the backbone of Blues?

new orleans voodoo is distinct from Haitian Voodoo because of the southernanglo-african Hoodoo factor?

Jazz funerals in New Orleans are mainly performed to anglo-african, negro spirtials?

see the catholic, jelly roll morton singing the classic anglo-african negro spirtual "Steal Away To Jesus" -->Alan Lomax Archive

Black New Orleans Catholics Already Incorporate Culture Into Worship

Black catholics in New Orleans are heavily influenced by southern AA baptist traditions. Nothing "french" about them.

facts

 

[IllmaticDelta]

this sure sounds alot like typcial catholic church music this creole man is giving a history lesson on

Father Jerome LeDoux talks about the origin of music in New Orleans: "Well, our Music grew natuarlly out of our history..", it all began with the slavery, when bibel verses became lyrics of traditional songs and spiritual dances. Since then music took its development to the Holy Blues, Jazz and Gospel

Worshippers Flock To Century-Old Black Catholic Church

Every Sunday morning at 10 a.m. you can feel the spirit of the African-American church through the beats of a drum, the bluesy progressions of the piano and the soulful lyrics of its gospel music.

Take a guess at what denomination it is, though. You don’t have to go far, just look at the statue of the black Virgin Mary outside the church’s front door. They’re Catholic. Our Mother of Mercy Church has been there nearly 100 years.

“Jospehite’s founded this as a black church as they have all their churches,” said Rev. Jerome Ledoux, the church’s pastor.

Father Ledoux moved here from New Orleans after Katrina. His style of gospel mass came with him.

“I thought the Catholic Church was Catholic,” Ledoux said. “Catholic means universal, embracing everything. And finally it became universal when it began to embrace the Negro spiritual, black gospel.”

Decades before in the Catholic Church, the gospel melodies were allowed but the songs weren’t sung in English.

And singing gospel music in Latin just didn’t have the same impact.

“There is no music more sacred than the Negro spirituals,” LeDoux said. “It is straight out of the

Gospel. It is straight out of the heart of the slaves. Where Were You When They Crucified My Lord? You don’t get any more spiritual than that.”

The church’s message is delivered in a manner that’s evolved as the foundation of worship for generations of worshipers.

“It’s very important because we get to practice our faith with people who are very similar to our culture,” said Richard Alexander, a church member who said he tried attending several other churches before settling his family into the Our Mother of Mercy parish.

“The only way to preach the gospel effectively is according to a man a woman’s or child’s culture,” LeDoux said. “That’s the way you communicate with a person.”

Worshippers Flock To Century-Old Black Catholic Church

 

[Supper]

“I thought the Catholic Church was Catholic,” Ledoux said. “Catholic means universal, embracing everything. And finally it became universal when it began to embrace the Negro spiritual, black gospel.”

Nail.In.Coffin

/Thread

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Nail.In.Coffin

/Thread

 

[Supper]

NO creoles ain't got no Caroilna roots! @Black Haven




They exoticals.

Haiti, Haiti, Haiti!

Cuba, Cuba, Cuba!

 

[Supper]

Yes, Zydeco developed in SW LA. I was only talking about urban zydeco which was developed by people who were from SW LA and moved to Houston after WWII like Willie Green and Clifton Chenier where traditional LA zydeco got mixed with Houston urban blues, hence the birth of urban zydeco






(more traditional zydeco, but recorded in houston's frenchtown nonetheless)




And yes, SETX a lot culture through family ties with SWLA. And vise versa. That's why a lot of them boys in SW LA be on screw music and ridin slabs.

 

[Budda]

Its Yoruba in Creole.
They so yes it does come from Africa.
It means "God is coming to free us."

?

 

[Supper]

how else do you think zydeco was founded on the backbone of Blues?

Yep, the la la music black creoles in SW LA were playing already had swamp blues, gospel, and general AA folk influences influences such in the Jure music.

An earlier song form, juré, evolved from field hollers shared during slavery days, Simien said.

"Juré was a celebration," he said. "After work or on their day off, people would dance around a fire as they stood in a circle and 'testify' in French."


Hand clapping and foot stamping were important components of juré music, and some historians believe that the offbeat rhythms found in this style influenced the beats in zydeco. Simien shared that there is no physical documentation for the beginnings of juré music, but a listener could clearly pick up on the African, Native American and Creole influences.

From 'la la music' to zydeco

In fact, pre-dating la la, the earliest related form of black Creole music in south Louisiana involved a type of ritualized singing with little, if any, instrumental support. Known as juré La la was the most common name of the unamplified, accordion-based black Creole musical form that would eventually undergo a crucial transformation in Frenchtown, and elsewhere in southeast Texas, to evolve into modern Zydeco from the French verb jurer, “to testify,” it was a type of gospel chant that sometimes accompanied a special dance. It such cases it is understood to have been “a localized form of the African-American ‘ring shout,’ consisting of a counterclockwise procession accompanied by antiphonal singing and the shuffling, stamping, and clapping of the dancers, occasionally supplemented by simple percussion such as the ubiquitous metal-on-jawbone scraper or its descendant, the washboard." However, other researchers assert that performance of juré by black Creole Catholics in New Orleans was completely a cappella and “most common during Lent, when instruments and dancing were taboo

Chenier, located the origin of his music’s characteristic syncopation in the church-inspired juré: “The beat came from the religion people,” he once bluntly asserted in an interview, as he sharply clapped his hands in time.Thus, juré is the post-African source for the highly syncopated, polyrhythmic foundation common today in the black Creole music of Louisiana and southeast Texas—a signature trait distinguishing the sound from that of the neighboring white Cajuns, for instance. While the rhythms now are generated by manipulation of metal instruments, they began much more simply. Utilizing the most basic of sonic devices, the voice and the hand clap, the primary role of juré in the evolution of zydeco is analogous to that of a cappella “Negro spirituals” in the early formation of the secular music called blues.

https://gato-docs.its.txstate.edu/jcr:026c6644-b3ab-4380-be71-97a9f309b2ab/Volume_1_No_2_Southeast Texas Hot House of Zydeco.pdf

But, when they started to move to Texas in mass, particularly to houston's frenchtown and absorbed the urban style of houston electric blues and RnB, is when the modern zydeco really first emerged.

Clifton Chenier, the man credited, with creating the sound of modern zydeco by playing with the piano key accordion and inventing the washboard vest while living in Texas, was discovered by Chris Strachwitz of Arhoolie Records in Frenchtown Houston. It was in Houston that electric guitars, bass, drums, saxophones and trumpets were added to zydeco bands modernizing the style.

As Chris Strachwitz, the producer of Chenier’s most significant recordings, has written, “Clifton’s success gave all the other Zydeco musicians the impetus to put more blues or rock and roll (as they called it) into Creole Zydeco music, especially in the Houston area."

Clifton Chenier sights houston blues legend Lightnin Hopkins as one of his main influences. And not only that, but Lightin' Hopkins was Chenier's cousin in law through marriage with Chenier's 2nd cousin. Hopkins was the one who introduced Chenier to Chris Strachwitz.

Not only that but the first time the word "zydeco" was mentioned on a record was on lightnin hopkins song zolo go where he is mimicking the sound of an accordion with his electric organ.



Lightnin Hopkins playing with Clifton's older brother Cleveland.


(Representative of the blending of creole and non-creole AA musical styles in Houston)

The folklorist who coined the term "zydeco" only intended it for it to be used to describe the syncranized style of music that combined Texas blues and Louisiana creole music in Frenchtown Fifth ward Houston not to describe the creole folk music in Louisiana from which it is partially rooted.

McCormick had initially settled on the word zydeco to describe both the dancing and the distinctive music that he observed among black Creoles in Houston’s Fifth Ward, not as a replacement for the older term la la but as a way of differentiating this now doubly syncretized urban style from the traditional music rooted back in rural Louisiana. As Tisserand observes, the Houston folklorist had intended for the term “to apply [only] to the local alloy of Texas blues and French Creole music. . . and he was horrified when the word was sucked backed across the Louisiana border,” noting also that McCormick declared, “When I’m talking about zydeco, I’m talking about the music of Frenchtown." Not only was the term zydeco first formally established on Texas soil as a multivalent reference to a new type of music, a dance step, and an event, but the first two recordings to use variations on the term in this sense, as opposed to the original French sense referring to a bean, were produced not in Louisiana but also in Houston in the late 1940s. Significantly also, these records were made not by artists playing the accordion or in the traditional Creole style. Instead, the first was issued, possibly as early as 1947, by the very personification of Texas blues, Sam “Lightnin’” Hopkins, and the second appeared in a 1949 recording by rhythm-and-blues performer Clarence “Bon Ton” Garlow

https://gato-docs.its.txstate.edu/jcr:026c6644-b3ab-4380-be71-97a9f309b2ab/Volume_1_No_2_Southeast Texas Hot House of Zydeco.pdf

Houston to Zydeco is basically Chicago to Urban blues

Michael Tisserand has noted, “Although Houston is often overlooked in zydeco history, the city’s relationship to the music can roughly be compared to Chicago’s impact on the blues.” This analogy is particularly insightful, for just as post-war Chicago became the proverbial birthplace of modern blues, postwar Houston proved to be the incubator in which the contemporary Creole music called zydeco came into being. From the 1920s through the 1950s, both cities were primary destinations for specific groups of rural African-American immigrants in search of jobs and improved living conditions. During this era of increasing urbanization throughout America, thousands of blacks left farms in the Mississippi River region of the Deep South, heading specifically for the place Robert Johnson immortalized as “Sweet Home Chicago.” As has been well documented elsewhere, many of these people took with them the acoustic folk musical idiom known as Delta blues, which soon assimilated other influences and metamorphosed into modern electric blues, the progenitor of rock ‘n’ roll. In a parallel way, during this same time period, members of a unique ethnic group of African-Americans—black Creoles from southwest Louisiana—migrated to Houston, the nearby home of the suddenly booming petro-chemical industry. As they created and settled in enclaves such as the city’s Frenchtown district, they introduced to Texas an acoustic folk musical idiom known mainly as la la, which soon absorbed other influences and evolved into modern zydeco, the progenitor of that syncopated accordion-based sound that seemed to burst suddenly into media consciousness in the 1980s.

 

[TNOT]

Hol

NO creoles ain't got no Caroilna roots! @Black Haven




They exoticals.

Haiti, Haiti, Haiti!

Cuba, Cuba, Cuba!

Link me the video to showing black Indian culture in the Carolinas.


I would like to see the similarities between the cultures.

 

[Supper]

Hol


Link me the video to showing black Indian culture in the Carolinas.


I would like to see the similarities between the cultures.

Origin of the Black Seminoles

As early as 1689, African slaves fled from the South Carolina Lowcountry to Spanish Florida seeking freedom. These were people who gradually formed what has become known as the Gullah culture of the coastal Southeast.[3] Under an edict from King Charles II of Spain in 1693, the black fugitives received liberty in exchange for defending the Spanish settlers at St. Augustine. The Spanish organized the black volunteers into a militia; their settlement at Fort Mosé, founded in 1738, was the first legally sanctioned free black town in North America.[4]

Not all the slaves escaping south found military service in St. Augustine to their liking. More escaped slaves sought refuge in wilderness areas in northern Florida, where their knowledge of tropical agriculture—and resistance to tropical diseases—served them well. Most of the blacks who pioneered Florida were Gullah people who escaped from the rice plantations of South Carolina (and later Georgia). As Gullah, they had developed an Afro-English based Creole, along with cultural practices and African leadership structure. The Gullah pioneers built their own settlements based on rice and corn agriculture. They became allies of Creek and other Indians escaping into Florida from the Southeast at the same time.[3] In Florida, they developed the Afro-Seminole Creole, which they spoke with the growing Seminole tribe.

Black Seminoles - Wikipedia


Black seminoles = Gullah/Geechee runaway slaves from the Carolinas and Georgia living amongst Creek and other indian tribes which would eventually lead to the genesis of the seminole people in Florida.

They eventually were banished from the state through the trail of tears after going to war the the US military where most of them ended up in Texas, but a few ended up in Louisana, Oklahoma, and even Mexico.

Black Seminoles in Brackettville Texas explaining their origins.


New Orleans/Louisiana isn't anywhere near as unique, special, or isolated from other AfrAms as you seem to be trying to paint is as.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Yep, the la la music black creoles in SW LA were playing already had swamp blues, gospel, and general AA folk influences influences such in the Jure music.

yup. Amede who influenced both the old Cajun style and the modern Zydeco sound was blending blues/waltzes/two-steps back then, laid the foundation for that type of music.

f southern Louisiana’s first great recording artists was a Creole accordionist and singer named Amédé Ardoin. At the time his records appeared, between 1930 and 1934, the terms “Cajun music,” “Creole music,” and “zydeco” were not in use, and zydeco as it is heard today had yet to evolve. Accordingly, there is some debate as to how Ardoin’s music should be classified. What is clear, however, is that Ardoin’s inspired musicianship, as expressed in a seamless, soulful blend of two-steps, blues, and waltzes, played a crucial role in forging both styles.

Ardoin is thought to have grown up in the countryside between Eunice and Basile, Louisiana, where many of his descendants still live. Ardoin’s family regarded him with mixed feelings because he refused to do farm work or other manual labor, instead relying on his musical performances for income. There are many tales of Ardoin hitchhiking around the unpaved roads of the prairie parishes with his accordion in a burlap sack, playing wherever he could. Many of his performances were at house parties rather than public venues.

By the 1930s, the accordion had been popular in Louisiana for some sixty or seventy years. In southern Louisiana, it adapted well to a combination of European song forms and African rhythmic approaches such as swing and syncopation. Ardoin personified this cultural blend and enhanced its development through his deft technique and his ability to improvise. Ardoin was a lively, inventive accordionist who could keep a crowd dancing while playing alone. He was also a soulful singer whose emotional style made dramatic use of elongated, high-pitched notes. Some of his lyrics, such as “Les Blues de la Prison,” were based on medieval French songs, or snippets of them. Other numbers, such as “La Valse de Chantiers Petroliperes” (“The Waltz of the Oilfield Workers”) reflected the socioeconomic changes afoot in southern Louisiana as a predominately agrarian culture began to experience industrialization.

Ardoin’s music was widely disseminated in southern Louisiana through a series of commercial recordings released by the Columbia label between 1930 and 1934. Some of these records found Ardoin accompanied by the great Cajun fiddler Dennis McGee. Such an interracial collaboration was unusual during an era when the two would almost surely have been barred from performing together in public. Ironically, a racial incident ended Ardoin’s career, around 1939, when he was severely beaten after a white woman wiped his face with her handkerchief. Mentally incapacitated from the attack, Ardoin spent the rest of his life in a state mental hospital.

Ardoin’s music deeply influenced two important (and, in turn, influential) midcentury musicians: the Cajun accordionist Iry LeJeune and the Creole accordionist Clifton Chenier. Chenier forged the zydeco sound that is still heard today by blending Cajun and Creole folk aesthetics into his interpretations of mainstream African-American blues and R&B, which he sang in French. LeJeune’s high-pitched emotional singing and passionate accordion playing continue to resonate in contemporary Cajun music

Amede Ardoin

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Origin of the Black Seminoles


Black Seminoles - Wikipedia


Black seminoles = Gullah/Geechee runaway slaves from the Carolinas and Georgia living amongst Creek and other indian tribes which would eventually lead to the genesis of the seminole people in Florida.

They eventually were banished from the state through the trail of tears after going to war the the US military where most of them ended up in Texas, but a few ended up in Louisana, Oklahoma, and even Mexico.

Spoiler

Black Seminoles in Brackettville Texas explaining their origins.

New Orleans/Louisiana isn't anywhere near as unique, special, or isolated from other AfrAms as you seem to be trying to paint is as.