Allen Iverson type opinions on 'Black on Black' Crime - A Dialogue

[GoldCoastSaint]

Gun death rates elevate based on race and gender.

The gun death rate of black women is at the same low level as it is for white women.

These numbers include both homicides and suicides.

This is heartbteaking to see graphed like this. So many of our men dead by the gun.

 

[mag357]

Okay, I understand you!

So, this might interest you.

One of my favorite books is The Condemnation Of Blackness by Khalil Gibran Muhammad, former director of the Schomburg Center in Harlem New York and current professor at Harvard University.

This book is what I consider my trifecta of modern black literature; which color the foundation on my philosophy on race and society.

I definitely see how you can see that crime in the urban community which has been infamously referred to as Black on Black crime is unique.

It isn't!

Let's introduce ourselves to late 19th and early 20th century Irish and Italian immigrants in New York City.

Before they were given the opportunity to assimilate into what is called whiteness, they were marginalized, discriminated against and forced, because of redlining to live in poverty and in ghettos. They were not hired by businesses and they were constantly policed harshly.

Their crime rates? High and similar to what we see in modern dysfunctional black communities.

Their education rates? Low and similar to the low educational achievement in modern dysfunctional black communities.

Within a few decades, after the U.S census took away "immigrant" as a category and realized that Irish and Italians would significantly lower the "sage narrative" of whites because of their crime rates... There was a push to eliminate the dysfunctional institutions - from prohibitive loan opportunities, improper education opportunities and improper and harsh policing - and they were afforded an opportunity to receive the sufficient services of what was considered white society.
Within Decades their crime rates dropped and normed out to the rest of the country and their class level moved from poverty into middle class!

The same people, the same genes, the same names... The difference? The removal of the dysfunctional gov't and societal support!

Have black communities ever really been afforded those same reform of services? No!

No group that has been plagued by dysfunction has ever rose out of it on their own without the promised and proper support of the society they lived in.

I implore yall to pick up this book. Matter fact, and I said this on prior occasions, I care so much that the first few brehs who pm me, I'll pay for the book myself and send it to whatever delivery location they want.

REAL shyt.

This book is an objective and sourced literary and historic work that every black person should read.

Matter fact, I might start a book club thread if at least 5 or 10 brehs want to read it together and discuss.

I care about every black nikka in the hood. And I care about every coli breh that is going to respond to this post with a "fukk you nikka! I ain't reading that." Why?

"I don't know man, it's just the type a nikka I am" - Cam'Ron voice


The fact that some of y'all are even spending some time politicking this thread makes me hype, even when we disagree.

Atleast, outside of the trolls, I know yall nikkas care about the same people I do.

I'll definitely read that book. Like definitely...
And I'll be back with some more points based off the book....
But let me say this... I meant "unique" as in crimes committed today in America...
I'm sure they have terms for certain specific ethnic crimes in different places in the world.
The only difference in our philosophies is this...
I dont believe in waiting for the government to help us, help ourselves...
So I'm not upset that our communities dnt look better... our schools are shyt.. even the food in our communities is shyt... because the government doesnt help us....
Theres a couple of reasons why...
1st and foremost, I want the individuals who can be considered our oppressors as far away from us as possible.... I want them to keep their hands out of our issues and just let us be. Their intentions usually dont serve our best interests....
2cdly... if our oppressors were to even give us, in our communities, any good thing.
Better housing, schools, money for developing better programs in our communities...
The dysfunctional elements of our race will tear that shyt down and fukk it up...
U know why, because we have to cleanse ourselves 1st... take care of our own dysfunction before we can properly utilize any good that comes our way...

 

[Wear My Dawg's Hat]

This is heartbteaking to see graphed like this. So many of our men dead by the gun.

They are heartbreaking, but the overall violent crime numbers in the country are trending downward.

Imagine what this chart might have looked like for 1979 or 1992.

The low number for black women undermines the argument that race is the key factor for high violent
death rates for black men.

In the 1930s, the white male U.S. homicide rate was higher than the Negro/black male rate.

My grandmother remembers a 1950s Harlem when she could sleep at night on the fire escape. She says that things exploded in the 1960s and beyond.

 

[DPresidential]

They are heartbreaking, but the overall violent crime numbers in the country are trending downward.

Imagine what this chart might have looked like for 1979 or 1992.

The low number for black women undermines the argument that race is the key factor for high violent
death rates for black men.

In the 1930s, the white male U.S. homicide rate was higher than the Negro/black male rate.

My grandmother remembers a 1950s Harlem when she could sleep at night on the fire escape. She says that things exploded in the 1960s and beyond.

I love you for this. Thanks for sharing

 

[CreepyMcCreeperson]

I’m not even bout to read all that bullshyt.

This is the real, it’s a problem when black people are killed, period.

That needs to be the one and only lasting message in this dumb ass debate.

The problem I have with folks who automatically get tight when they hear someone say “we need to stop killing each other” is that they assume that means that person is excusing police brutality and systemic racism.

That’s usually not the case.

There’s strength in numbers, and the more of us there are, the better chance we have at overcoming the bullshyt done to us by others.

So yes, senseless black on black murders are a huge problem that needs to be addressed, and we need to start being just as hard on black people that kill other black people as we are on police and racist cacs.

We get so caught up in our political stances that sometimes we lose collective common sense.

What message are we sending to black youth when we get all up in arms when a white person kills a black man, but when a black person kills a black man, we aren’t nearly as upset, unless it’s a famous rapper.

Often times we celebrate murderers, who more than likely killed another black man, as long as we’re on their side of the argument.

I’ve seen nikkas come home from doing long bids for murder get parties thrown in their honor, with children in attendance, like they just graduated college or came home as a war hero.

We have to be responsible for our own bullshyt before we can successfully fight bullshyt done to us by others.

Are you suggesting we protest crime? How is marching around with signs supposed to stop anything? Are they going to look out the window and say, "Wow, folks are really mad, I guess I should just stop."

This is not a black culture problem. You're not seeing middle class black kids choosing a life of crime, because they think it's cool or fun. Black people do well when we have access to good resources. Even with a messed up home situation, income can still provide a better shield to street life.

 

[CreepyMcCreeperson]

I agree with AI. I know was born in the hood in new Orleans and we was taught to celebrate the killer, he was the man we wanted to be,

“They say you nobody til you kill somebody” is a real life thought process, I can think of countless times dudes in the hood would prey on others for no reason

And we can say “well we are in close proximity of each other” but that’s bullshyt cause our hoods having been getting gentrified at a rapid rate in some of the most notorious hoods and white bodies are nothing getting dropped, robberings of white people or other races aren’t rising

A random white person can walk thru more hoods than a random black persons.


It’s sad and this shyt sucks

And we can say the fbi/government is killing our leaders which is true, but at a certain point we have to hold that black person accountable for his action, no fukking way a black should have ever signed up to kill Malcolm

If they're not robbing white people, then who are they robbing? The other black people with no money?

There are many black people who are not involved with crime, and don't know or associate with people who are involved with crime. So what are we supposed to do? Seriously. What am I supposed to do? Knockmon people's doors, and give them lectures?

 

[Benefited]

Much respect.

It's funny, I was just speaking in a black brotherhood fireside discussion at an event for the NYC Department of Education and this same concern came up.

I have been an attorney for 8 years.

I practiced criminal law, exclusively, for 5 years and transitioned into employment and education law currently, however, I still do criminal work on the side.

I am proud of the fact that I have had intimate insight on the system that doesnt include me being in cuffs myself. I can speak from a perspective of being the kid who saw the damage in my hood and being the attorney who saw the dysfunction from inside the courtroom and policy meetings.

I know you are very concrete in your belief about the system not being able to be reformed. I definitely understand that and I'm not going to insult you by trying to convince you.

I'll just say that I do see reform... At a snail's pace, but I do see it.

I don't see it enough but I personally know people who are actively moving into position to have greater leverage to fight the dysfunction.

Understand... Most black attorneys in the criminal law field DO NOT cosign the miscarriage of justice.

Most of them, most of us, care about justice and want it.

CXW stock doubled right after Trump won his election,which practically says it all. Any sort of reform you think you see is them pulling the okey doke,as what may seem like reform is simply them doubling up. People may think,oh they are giving out more probation and house arrest how nice of them. No,they are now getting paid off of the ankle monitors. People may think they are being nice enough to hand out more rehab versus incarceration,nope they are now getting into the rehab business and making money off of that. Which means they have power to manipulate all of that and rotate you in and out to continue getting paid. Setting you up to fail,so "reform" is simply prolonging profits now and creating reoccuring "customers"

I don't question black defense attorneys wanting to help,but you abide by the laws and the rules that you are allowed to help under. If a judge tells you guys something is not admissable,your not going to release it to the jury even though it may be a strong piece of evidence that could free your client. Its the same with cops who may be cops for the right reason. You know if you try to do the right thing you will be ousted from the system in which you are trying to make change. And we know any reform can be undone on a whim when you get a suspected white supremacist like Trump,or white rage accross the country just goes on an uptrend. There is no reform for us within a white society,just temporary relief. We are in the position of a battered wife who gets punched less and calling it reform,our perception is just completely warped. Im sure working in criminal law,you wouldn't think a man who beat his wife for decades straight,is suddenly done because he stops for a year or two. Why should black people live in a position where we need to wonder when the next punch is coming. I see no sign of us having an independent justice system where we create our own laws based on our own ideologys so until then there is no real reform imo.

 

[Ineedmoney504]

If they're not robbing white people, then who are they robbing? The other black people with no money?

There are many black people who are not involved with crime, and don't know or associate with people who are involved with crime. So what are we supposed to do? Seriously. What am I supposed to do? Knockmon people's doors, and give them lectures?

Yea they robbing the other black people in the hood who they know they can without fear of police really caring. But if they fukking rob a cac the police are gonna be on the block

For example they have a blood set that literally directly next to USC school in LA and I was just looking as a video of them pleading that all the students gonna be safe cause they don’t wanna get thrown off the set

But if a normal black man walks on the set they gonna be at his neck talking bout “where you from” and putting pressure on them

And no I didn’t say give lectures, the community needs to self police them at this point, they need to be treated like sexual predators in the streets for killing black men, reported, no bytches fukking with them, getting put out they moms house if they moving like that and general disgust at the actions instead Of harming other black men and women for nothing.

Stop making excuses and expecting the others people to be anything other then what they already are(devils) and stop giving a pass to the behavior with the basis “well white supremacy”, if not we never gonna get thru the shyt cause they clearly not in the market of making this shyt stop

 

[Benefited]

But no real ill will towards lawyers or cops,though I definitely can't respect a black cop because I know they've seen too much if they've been on the job long enough. And if they are on the job long enough it means they kept quiet. We need to start having the same level of disrespect and shaming towards black men who do dumb shyt that allow them to be put in a prison as we have for cops and prosecutors. Can't be quick to say fukk the cops and the feds,but not the people who do stupid shyt to get themselves put in. Less sympathy and more shaming needs to go their way as well for allowing themselves to become cattle.

 

[CreepyMcCreeperson]

Yea they robbing the other black people in the hood who they know they can without fear of police really caring. But if they fukking rob a cac the police are gonna be on the block

For example they have a blood set that literally directly next to USC school in LA and I was just looking as a video of them pleading that all the students gonna be safe cause they don’t wanna get thrown off the set

But if a normal black man walks on the set they gonna be at his neck talking bout “where you from” and putting pressure on them

And no I didn’t say give lectures, the community needs to self police them at this point, they need to be treated like sexual predators in the streets for killing black men, reported, no bytches fukking with them, getting put out they moms house if they moving like that and general disgust at the actions instead Of harming other black men and women for nothing.

Stop making excuses and expecting the others people to be anything other then what they already are(devils) and stop giving a pass to the behavior with the basis “well white supremacy”, if not we never gonna get thru the shyt cause they clearly not in the market of making this shyt stop

Well when you lived there, were you rallying people together to do that?

 

[TooLazyToMakeUp1]

Small thinking

 

[HoldThisL]

It is never a black on black issue. Most of it is just poor people doing poor people things.

Violence is bound to happen when there is few resources available and poor people are in close probably proximity to each other. That is cruelty of life and nature. Put any other demographic under those conditions and same result.

 

[BlackManLiveFromLondon]

It is never a black on black issue. Most of it is just poor people doing poor people things.

Violence is bound to happen when there is few resources available and poor people are in close probably proximity to each other. That is cruelty of life and nature. Put any other demographic under those conditions and same result.

Thats literally it and its what OP has said but clearly some smart alec's in here didn't read what he had to say.

 

[Ineedmoney504]

Well when you lived there, were you rallying people together to do that?

I still live in the hood fam. I’m not removed from this shyt. The mindstate of this shyt I know first hand. I live in the 7th ward of New Orleans right now. Grew up in the 13th. White people walk around this bih like nothing and black people have to look over they shoulder

 

[Take It In Blood]

People shouldn't kill people should be the bottom line


Fuk all that bullshyt