ALL TIME....THE HEART BREAK KID SHAWN MICHAELS...or the MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE...REAL simple

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

He drew in Memphis as a heel and a face. shyt, Savage was the major attraction alongside Lawler when CWA was able to held WWF to a stalemate and made Vince go and not try to overtake that territory. They even outdrew Hogan at times with Savage on top.

He drew in 85' against Hogan in some places were Hogan couldn't draw against Piper and Bundy.

He actually drew against DiBiase while Hogan was gone.

His feud with Flair in 95' was the first thing that turned around business for WCW, specially in house shows.


Savage was way more than just 1B to Hogan's 1A during the Mega Powers run.

As a merchandise buying mark i was WAAAY more into savage during that run.

 

[WaveMolecules]

Shawn Michaels matches rated 4.5*+ by Meltzer:

• vs Bret Hart, Survivor Series (1992) - 4.5 stars
  
• vs Marty Jannetty, Monday Night Raw (1993) - 4.75 stars
  
• vs Razor Ramon, WrestleMania X (1994) - 5 stars
• [& Diesel] vs Razor Ramon & 123 Kid, "WWF Action Zone #2" (1994) - 4.5 stars
  
• vs Razor Ramon, Summerslam (1995) - 4.75 stars
  
• vs Jeff Jarrett, IYH 2 (1995) - 4.5 stars
• vs Diesel, IYH 7 (1996) - 4.5 stars
  
• vs Mankind, IYH10 (1996) - 4.75 stars
  
• vs Undertaker, IYH 18 (1997) - 5 stars
• vs HHH vs Chris Benoit, WrestleMania XX (2004) - 4.75 stars
• vs HHH vs Chris Benoit, Backlash (2004) - 4.5 stars
• vs Kurt Angle, WrestleMania XXI (2005) - 4.75 stars
• vs Kurt Angle, Vengeance (2005) - 4.5 stars
• vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs John cena, Backlash (2007) - 4.5 stars
• vs Chris Jericho, No Mercy (2008) - 4.5 stars
• vs The Undertaker, WrestleMania XXV (2009) - 4.75 stars
• vs The Undertaker, WrestleMania XXVI (2010) - 4.75 stars

Randy Savage matches rated 4.5*+ by Meltzer:

• vs Ricky Steamboat, WrestleMania III (1987) - 4.5 stars

Obviously that's just one guys opinion, your mileage may vary etc etc. I'd find it hard to believe that he's underrating Macho Man's resumé by enough that it would get close to even though. He doesn't even have HBK vs Jericho at WMXIX or vs HHH at Summerslam 02 as 4.5* matches

lock this thread.


HBGOAT

 

[Tommy Fits]

There's only one GOAT and he isn't mostly remembered for banging a certain underaged girl.

:trollhbk:

 

[The G.O.D II]

He lost to one good wrestler Hoegan

Everyone else that beat him were flashes in the pan (Warrior) or midcarders

He did nothing to make WM4 anything other than the biggest snoozefest Mania of all time, and it's not like Ted Dibiase is an impressive win

All his big wins during the 80s were in a tag team with Hoegan

He couldn't even talk Vince McMahon into having a match with HBK, that's how bad Randy sucked by 1994

People don't know this, but Savage was done by 92. He had a match with Flair on house show that was so bad Vince made them go out there and run it back. Its Michaels all day. He had matches that you can watch whether it was 5 years ago or 20. He wasn't touching Macho on the mic or personality wise but he was not some stiff like Hart. Macho is overrated to the heavens(literally) with IWC and I've always pointed that out.

 

[The G.O.D II]

not all his fault though. after beating hogan they put him in a program with rick rude for god sakes. there weren't any credible opponents for the guy. the only monster heel they had was earthquake and they fed him to hogan instead.

warrior couldn't draw like hogan cause he wasn't quite as safe and family friendly. he was like the pg-13 variation of hulk hogan. he took the hogan mold but he went deeper and darker wit it. no silly catchphrases, just real nikka shyt.

i will take warrior's 2-3 year GODLY run over anything bret or shawn has ever done.

See, you were doing good against that retard R=G until you killed you credibility by saying this goofy shyt

 

[Lost His Smile]

HBK is my GOAT but I can see why others would give that title to Savage.

Hell, I dressed up as the Macho Man during Halloween while in Kindergarten, had a neon one piece with a plastic Macho Man mask.

I was

through those hallways.

 

[prophecypro]

These two should have had a feud in 93 or 94

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

See, you were doing good against that retard R=G until you killed you credibility by saying this goofy shyt

so biggie can't be one of the greatest rappers ever cause he only had a hot 2-3 year run??

what warrior accomplished in those 2-3 years dwarfs anything bret or shawn ever did. neither of those guys reached the heights or the peak that he did.

longevity means dikk in this case. great shawn has been puttin on hits for 25 years. warrior beat HULK HOGAN in his prime for the fukkin title at wrestlemania.

warrior > shawn

 

[prophecypro]

As a causal on and off fan of wrestling, can someone school me as to why Randy just hit the wall by 92/93 and then had a reduced wrestling role? Was it injury, conditioning? What happened there?

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Yall need to decide if youre talking in kayfabe or not. You cant use the "well he wasnt a main eventer long" and use "he beat so and so" in the same argument. Honestly where a booker decides put you on the card does not hold much weight in a GOAT discussion. NO ONE was going over Hogan in 88-89 and if Hogan didnt want to to make movies and was contemplating retirement, Warrior wouldnt have gone over either.

it doesn't matter if it's kayfabe or real life, they are both one in the same.

OP asked who's better ALL TIME.

so it's not about personal opinion. personally i think scott hall is one of the best to ever do it but honestly he wouldn't crack an all time top 10. it's about more than that. it's about accomplishments and career retrospective... and believe it or not kayfabe plays a huge a part in that.

the reason no one was gonna go over hogan in the 80's was because hogan was that much better than everyone else. dude was fukkin money.

warrior went over him in 90 cause he proved he could hang with him.

 

[The G.O.D II]

so biggie can't be one of the greatest rappers ever cause he only had a hot 2-3 year run??

what warrior accomplished in those 2-3 years dwarfs anything bret or shawn ever did. neither of those guys reached the heights or the peak that he did.

longevity means dikk in this case. great shawn has been puttin on hits for 25 years. warrior beat HULK HOGAN in his prime for the fukkin title at wrestlemania.

warrior > shawn

Are you honestly saying Warrior is equivalent to Biggie? Why are posting like a complete and irrational mark? Warrior impact in this business is nothing compared to Hart/Michaels. Period. Why is this even a debate?

 

[3Rivers]

As a causal on and off fan of wrestling, can someone school me as to why Randy just hit the wall by 92/93 and then had a reduced wrestling role? Was it injury, conditioning? What happened there?

Vince was going with the "New Generation" theme and wanted Randy to commentate, Randy wanted to still wrestle so he left
in 94

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

Are you honestly saying Warrior is equivalent to Biggie? Why are posting like a complete and irrational mark? Warrior impact in this business is nothing compared to Hart/Michaels. Period. Why is this even a debate?

not exactly, but partially.

warrior isn't to wrestling what biggie was to hip hop, but he WAS a massive star who reached heights few in the business have before or since... even if it was only for a short period of time.

for all of shawn's longevity and classic matches/moments, he never did what warrior did.

warrior had a unanimous MVP + finals MVP type season. shawn never came close to that.

 

[prophecypro]

Vince was going with the "New Generation" theme and wanted Randy to commentate, Randy wanted to still wrestle so he left
in 94

Oh I knew about that but like cats in this thread were talking about Randy already not looking too good in matches by 92 so I wonder if that had anything to do with it or if that . Its strange cause I feel like if they had wanted to make a face of the company after Hogan and Warrior left, they could have given some more mileage out of Randy than say trying with Lex, at least for a couple of years along with Bret and Shawn there. Dude had a marketing endorsment and everything

 

[Modsbanme]

HBK is the goat. Savage is a close second. Saint Michaels blessed the entire world with his comeback and also he found God , so that's even better.