Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - "Not All Dems Are The Same"

Perfectson

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For Da Bag said:
You watched the same video I did. The guy says clearly that Pelosi would create the new committee for the New Green Deal initiative. The committee's job is to work out the details and vote on them before it goes out to the whole of congress. So of course, there's no details, right now. No details, doesn't mean no vision. And it never has.




What's working exactly? Everyone knows the recession is coming. Ripping up regulations was a mistake. Tax cuts were a mistake.
In terms of how we got to where we are today, let's not pretend capitalism got us here all on its lonesome. This country is about democracy and not being economic slaves (oh, the irony). It's not about being the bastion of capitalism. If capitalism is where people place their national pride, then we are truly in the sunken place.



Those African nations had no one skilled or qualified enough to take over those farms or industries. That's why they failed. If there were as many black people equally as experienced as their white counterparts, those African nations would have been fine. The issue there was there wasn't. We clearly don't have that problem here in the US. Also, AOC or anyone else progressive has made any statements on transitioning the country overnight. They've only said the transition has to be done, be done thoroughly, and needs to take priority. You assume too much on how Dems or Progressives will proceed on this.



More jobs in manufacturing, maintenance, support, and operation in green jobs. Yes. Equal to or more than coal jobs. Yes. Germany went full steam with a bad rollout and being an early adopter. Other countries are doing fine in their green jobs/tech initiatives. Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark aren't rioting because of socialism. But because of immigration. France is rioting because of Macron pushing more capitalist economics and those capitalists getting tax breaks while making everyday products in France more expensive.
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1) of course there's a vision, I have a vision I have $40m dollars...if I can't articulate how to get there then I'm not going to go around telling people I'm getting $40m dollars and this how I'm going to spend it and why it's good for everyone.

2) What's working? 200+ years is what' working, capitalism is what's working. There's no recession coming yet. I agree Trump's policies are poor , just like most republicans because trickle down doesn't work. You see what I did there, I'm not bound by partisianship like you are. I can tell you straight faced, Trickle down does not work, it has never worked and we continue to see evidence of this everytime a republican tries it. Unfortunately, leaping head first into Green and Socialism doesn't work either and it's been proven yet Socialist Dem refuse to admit that.

3) I wasn't looking for a history lesson African farms, respectively. I was paralleling what happens when you change your whole economy based on poor decision makers despite what the populace thinks is good for them. Africans though, yeah kick the white man out and we will get free land (back) - it's not that simple unfortuantley and it's not sa simple as giving everyone free college education, green initatives, free medical, or a standard wage.

4) France has been rioting for years, before Macron because there's no jobs, corporations aren't hiring after spending 33%. Yellow vest started because the gas prices increased (mainly due to taxes) those taxes are supporting socialst policies, so despite this going back to the people, the people are rioting. You're way off base here on this one. Germany didn't have a bad rollout, it's bad policy and politics, the same things AOC is trying to do. We just talked about moderation and it sounded like you weren't for that so you are for the same failed policies that Germany did. The countries you mention (Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark) are not socialist countries and are actually more capitalistic then probably the US. There's a misnomer that they are socialist because the government does provide some social programs but the government also doesn't interfere with the economics of the countries (for instance they have no law on minimum wage, they don't have full blown free healthcare for everyone, they don't have full blown free education, etc etc). You should probably do a bit more research on those, I know progressives like to hold up the Nordic countries as some sort of goal post but they are no where near what progressives are seeking in the US.

5) I can't say for sure there will be more or less jobs, but coal and oil are very manual jobs for the most part. Solar and Wind are fairly autonomous once set up...I don't see where more jobs will be created then oil/coal in the long run.
 
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I mean. You didn't have to just ignore this entire part from my post. I even @'d you.


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The New Green Deal is not the arbiter of death (or anything bad for that matter) you make it out to be. Certainly not at this nascent stage.


EDIT: Green New Deal: what is the progressive plan, and is it technically possible?

How would it work?
The Sunrise Movement’s Green New Deal would eliminate greenhouse gas emissions from electricity, transportation, manufacturing, agriculture and other sectors within 10 years. It would also aim for 100% renewable energy and includes a job guarantee program “to assure a living wage job to every person who wants one”. It would seek to “mitigate deeply entrenched racial, regional and gender-based inequalities in income and wealth”.

Other groups have floated a more flexible vision. Greg Carlock, an energy expert writing for the group Data for Progress, proposed reaching 100% clean or renewable energy in 15 years, allowing more time to decarbonize other sectors.

Demond Drummer, founder of the New Consensus thinktank, said it was working on a plan that will require a reimagining of the whole US economy.

“You can’t address the climate crisis without these other issues being addressed as well,” he said. “The entire economy is built around fossil fuels. The same economy that creates rampant poverty and wage stagnation is the economy that’s built around fossil fuels.”

Is it technically possible?
With enough money and political will, the US electric grid could make major changes. Currently, the US gets 17% of its power from renewable energy and less than half of that is from wind and solar, the quickly growing renewable sources, according to the Energy Information Administration. Nuclear power, which uses mined uranium but is carbon free, makes up 20% of the grid.

Turning to all-renewable power would require large amounts of battery storage, for when the wind isn’t blowing and the sun isn’t shining. The technology is not available but it is advancing.

Christine Tezak, an analyst at ClearView Energy Partners, said decarbonizing electricity in 10 to 15 years would be “practically overnight in infrastructure terms”, even if policymakers allowed low-polluting technologies too. A mid-century goal would be more reasonable, she said.

Decarbonizing the rest of the economy would be “an even heavier lift, particularly given what we consider to be the absence of a bipartisan catalyst of any sort in the next two years”, she said.
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:jbhmm:

This is ambitious. 10 years? It could be done, yeah. But how is very important. I'm hopeful, but not completely convinced. Although, I'm not as pessimistic as you are @Perfectson . But I see your concern.
 
Perfectson

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For Da Bag said:
I mean. You didn't have to just ignore this entire part from my post. I even @'d you.


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The New Green Deal is not the arbiter of death (or anything bad for that matter) you make it out to be. Certainly not at this nascent stage.


EDIT: Green New Deal: what is the progressive plan, and is it technically possible?



:jbhmm:

This is ambitious. 10 years? It could be done, yeah. But how is very important. I'm hopeful, but not completely convinced. Although, I'm not as pessimistic as you are @Perfectson . But I see your concern.
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i didn't ignore, just nothing to disagree with - especially something that is still speculative and at the root that's my issue in addition to all the other social programs AOC has committed to championing that are also speculative

cooler heads will prevail but people are being riled up so I hope moderation succeeds without too much "discomfort"
 
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Warren Moon said:
I hate this chick. She presents tons of ideas with no actionable plans, she loves the attention
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She literally hasn't even been sworn in yet, and you're complaining that she hasn't done anything actionable? :gucci:

Here's a challenge for you. Name the five best actionable plans that a U.S. Congressman has put forth in the 21st century where were actually carried out in a successful matter and made the country better.

You hate that a 1st-term Congresswoman is putting out ideas before she's even been sworn in, because you say you want actionable plans. So you must really follow all these great actionable plans that everyone else is putting out there. Go ahead, tell me, what have the five BEST plans by a congressman been that have actually been since 2000?

:sas1::sas2:
 
Warren Moon

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Rhakim said:
She literally hasn't even been sworn in yet, and you're complaining that she hasn't done anything actionable? :gucci:

Here's a challenge for you. Name the five best actionable plans that a U.S. Congressman has put forth in the 21st century where were actually carried out in a successful matter and made the country better.

You hate that a 1st-term Congresswoman is putting out ideas before she's even been sworn in, because you say you want actionable plans. So you must really follow all these great actionable plans that everyone else is putting out there. Go ahead, tell me, what have the five BEST plans by a congressman been that have actually been since 2000?

:sas1::sas2:
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No she’s presented multiple ideas without producing the documented plans to pay for anything or how it actually would happen.

Most politicians release the plans publically :dwillhuh:. It’s a standard for running for a congressional office.




You have obviously never googled or read or know about this and your perpetrating and spewing bullshyt. I’ll give you three actionable plans that helped the black community within the last six months

Tucked Into the Tax Bill, a Plan to Help Distressed America


The First Step Act, Congress’s criminal justice reform bill, explained


Congress Passes Farm Bill That Will Help Black Farmers And HBCUs - Essence


Keep spewing your bullshyt tho:yeshrug:
 
Warren Moon

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jayshiggs said:
Or maybe he just lacks imagination. :yeshrug:
Who decides what's actionable? Probably a Congress member over a message board poster. lol
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No, she literally just states ideas with no plans.

This quickest way to shut her up is just ask her “how are we going to do that?” :mjlol:
 
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Professor Emeritus

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Warren Moon said:
No she’s presented multiple ideas without producing the documented plans to pay for anything or how it actually would happen.

Most politicians release the plans publically :dwillhuh:. It’s a standard for running for a congressional office.
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So if MOST politicians release those plans publicly before they are even signed in to office, then it should be easy for you to list some great ones that made their way into law.

I'll ask you again - Name the five best actionable plans that a U.S. Congressman has put forth in the 21st century where were actually carried out in a successful matter and made the country better. Now you're talking like congressmen who aren't even in office yet have loads of these awesome actionable plans just waiting to get signed into law, so lets hear it. You already failed to meet the challenge the first time I proposed it, I'm giving you a second chance.

While we're on it, who are your five favorite congressmen anyway? :sas1::sas2:




Warren Moon said:
You have obviously never googled or read or know about this and your perpetrating and spewing bullshyt. I’ll give you three actionable plans that helped the black community within the last six months

Tucked Into the Tax Bill, a Plan to Help Distressed America


The First Step Act, Congress’s criminal justice reform bill, explained


Congress Passes Farm Bill That Will Help Black Farmers And HBCUs - Essence


Keep spewing your bullshyt tho:yeshrug:
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That "Opportunity Zones" bullshyt was a pure tax writeoff windfall for Kushner and his friends, good luck seeing that help any actual Black people. The First Step Act is an extremely watered-down version of something the Democrats have proposed for years. The Farm Bill additions are a small positive but they ain't affecting the direction of the country at all.

But beyond the fact that you just posted three extremely marginal changes, you didn't meet the challenge at all. Were those three changes the result of actionable plans that Congressmen had posted publicly before they even been signed into office? And were those the BEST things you've seen this country do in the last 20 years?

If you really believe that that crap you posted is #goals and the most we should be pressuring our politicians to strive for.:what:
 
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