Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - "Not All Dems Are The Same"

[storyteller]

You noticed how you completely ignored "I'm the boss how bout that" because it didn't fit the narrative you were trying to create?

Here's the full context of the "I'm the boss" line


You need me to explain what she meant here or are you really trying to call her a dictator for THAT?

 

[Secure Da Bag]

1. The us population isn't 8 billion, but we export food around the world.

I never said nor implied the US pop is 8 billion. I simply said the US doesn't feed 8 billion people.

2 and 3. I already went over this. We have electric cars, but if we have to suddenly shift from our current gas powered vehicles to a country full of electric vehicles, who is going to pay for that. Electric cars are great for the environment and I agree we should gradually shift to using them, but last time I checked Elon Musk wasn't giving away Tesla's and they were kind of expensive.

Raise CAFE standards and tell car makers that all cars must meet those standards in 10 years. People need cars, therefore they'll buy them. Electric and fuel-cell cars will most likely be the only cars capable of meeting those standards.

But yes, the entire car inventory of the US isn't going to swap to electric cars in 10 years. However, we can phase out gasoline cars in that time.

4. Horses were used in the context of this text to mean, if companies cant afford to buy all new fleets of electric vehicles and gas powered vehicles are banned, horse drawn carriages would be an alternative. Walking dead style.

Unnecessary hyperbole. Basically a throwaway.

5. Posted the links to the study already. Was immediately attacked for being right wing. But also it was admitted that no one on the other side has challenged the numbers, not even the creators of the green new deal. So the numbers kind of stand unless you can point out some errors in the math, at that point I'll concede.

I just wanted to know where the numbers came from. If that number is 94T, so be it. The amount of jobs created from such a venture especially in a domestic capacity would lift the economy to new heights.

 

[HellRell804]

Here's the full context of the "I'm the boss" line


You need me to explain what she meant here or are you really trying to call her a dictator for THAT?

I'd love to hear the explanation of why a freshman congresswoman 2 months into her term is telling her bosses (American Citizens) that she's the boss and to not question her instead of, you know defending her proposal, or explaining how it's going to work

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I'd love to hear the explanation of why a freshman congresswoman 2 months into her term is telling her bosses (American Citizens) that she's the boss and to not question her instead of, you know defending her proposal, or explaining how it's going to work

I thought she was talking to her Congressional colleagues who were doing a lot of the complaining.

 

[HellRell804]

I never said nor implied the US pop is 8 billion. I simply said the US doesn't feed 8 billion people.



Raise CAFE standards and tell car makers that all cars must meet those standards in 10 years. People need cars, therefore they'll buy them. Electric and fuel-cell cars will most likely be the only cars capable of meeting those standards.

But yes, the entire car inventory of the US isn't going to swap to electric cars in 10 years. However, we can phase out gasoline cars in that time.



Unnecessary hyperbole. Basically a throwaway.



I just wanted to know where the numbers came from. If that number is 94T, so be it. The amount of jobs created from such a venture especially in a domestic capacity would lift the economy to new heights.

So you think it's just that easy to tell a single mom or struggling family that their 2500 to 3000 dollar bucket they use to get back and forth to work and take their children where they need to go needs to be replaced with a $40,000 tesla.

Or that the small farmers that supply farmers markets and local coops that they need to ditch that old reliable truck they been using for years and get a $100,000 electric vehicle.

And you say that the jobs being created will push the economy to new heights but the amount of money needed for this program will be astronomical. So how will "taxing the rich" bring in these additional trillions of dollars when most estimates say the 70% tax rate will generate a few billion at best (and that's if rich people don't duck the taxes)

 

[HellRell804]

I thought she was talking to her Congressional colleagues who were doing a lot of the complaining.

That's even worse. She doesn't have the seniority, experience, or stripes to talk to her colleagues like that. She's just gassed over her Twitter popularity and getting tipsy off that power.

 

[mastermind]

That's even worse. She doesn't have the seniority, experience, or stripes to talk to her colleagues like that. She's just gassed over her Twitter popularity and getting tipsy off that power.

You’re an idiot

 

[HellRell804]

You’re an idiot

Awesome contribution to the discussion.

You go to a job for 2 months and tell your coworkers you're the boss. See how that works out

 

[storyteller]

I'd love to hear the explanation of why a freshman congresswoman 2 months into her term is telling her bosses (American Citizens) that she's the boss and to not question her instead of, you know defending her proposal, or explaining how it's going to work

Alright, I figured you just didn't see the whole statement, but here goes. But here's the full statement I copied from an article:
“Like I just introduced the Green New Deal two weeks ago, and it’s creating all of this conversation. Why? Because no one else has even tried. Because no one else has even tried.” She added, “So people are like, ‘Oh it’s unrealistic. Oh it’s vague. Oh it doesn’t address this little minute thing.’ And I’m like, ‘You try. You do it. Cuz you’re not. Cuz you’re not. So, until you do it, I’m the boss.’ How about that?”

Right out the gate, the dictator ish is trash when she's literally saying "go out and make your own proposal." She's not saying "it's my way come hell or high water" she's saying "if you don't like it, then beat my legislation." I also wanna throw in that you say she's talking to "her bosses (American Citizens)" when she tells critics of her legislation to craft their own policy. American citizens widely support the legislation she's proposed.

Poll: Majorities of both parties support Green New Deal

More than 80 percent of registered voters support the Green New Deal proposal being pushed by progressional Democratic lawmakers, a new poll found.

The survey conducted by the Yale Program on Climate Communication and the George Mason University Center for Climate Change Communication found that 92 percent of Democrats and 64 percent of Republicans back the Green New Deal plan.

So let's look at this...she's literally telling critics to help craft a policy to beat hers and her "bosses" aka American Citizens are highly supportive of her proposal which is why she's so comfortable saying "beat my proposal then." None of that is dictatorial which would require absolute power.

 

[HellRell804]

Alright, I figured you just didn't see the whole statement, but here goes. But here's the full statement I copied from an article:
“Like I just introduced the Green New Deal two weeks ago, and it’s creating all of this conversation. Why? Because no one else has even tried. Because no one else has even tried.” She added, “So people are like, ‘Oh it’s unrealistic. Oh it’s vague. Oh it doesn’t address this little minute thing.’ And I’m like, ‘You try. You do it. Cuz you’re not. Cuz you’re not. So, until you do it, I’m the boss.’ How about that?”

Right out the gate, the dictator ish is trash when she's literally saying "go out and make your own proposal." She's not saying "it's my way come hell or high water" she's saying "if you don't like it, then beat my legislation." I also wanna throw in that you say she's talking to "her bosses (American Citizens)" when she tells critics of her legislation to craft their own policy. American citizens widely support the legislation she's proposed.

Poll: Majorities of both parties support Green New Deal



So let's look at this...she's literally telling critics to help craft a policy to beat hers and her "bosses" aka American Citizens are highly supportive of her proposal which is why she's so comfortable saying "beat my proposal then." None of that is dictatorial which would require absolute power.

Again, how would you react if Trump used that kind of language. At best it's a poor choice of wording, at worst it underscores a list for power.

And 2, no one is opposed to the concept of the green new deal, my whole point was, who and how are we supposed to pay for this. And it's not just you, everytime this question is asked its

About the absolute power part, you have an entire generation of new politicians who are very public about not wanting to reach across the aisle at all, even threatening to primary colleagues who step out of line. So if you have policies you want to enact and you're not willing to compromise with opposition to get them, how exactly are you going to get this legislation through without taking control.

Then once you get that control you have to keep it, or you deal with what the Republicans are going through getting their comeuppance for 8 years of obstructing Obama.

At some point the petty childish back and forth power games need to stop and these politicians need to act like adults

 

[Secure Da Bag]

So you think it's just that easy to tell a single mom or struggling family that their 2500 to 3000 dollar bucket they use to get back and forth to work and take their children where they need to go needs to be replaced with a $40,000 tesla.

Or that the small farmers that supply farmers markets and local coops that they need to ditch that old reliable truck they been using for years and get a $100,000 electric vehicle.

Again, I never said nor implied that. The GND doesn't say or even suggest that. That entire rant was more hyperbole.

Read: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ed Markey’s Green New Deal Resolution

17 (H) overhauling transportation systems in
18 the United States to eliminate pollution and

19 greenhouse gas emissions from the transpor-
20 tation sector as much as is technologically fea-
21 sible, including through investment in—

22 (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure
23 and manufacturing;
24 (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible
25 public transportation; and

1 (iii) high-speed rail;

And you say that the jobs being created will push the economy to new heights but the amount of money needed for this program will be astronomical. So how will "taxing the rich" bring in these additional trillions of dollars when most estimates say the 70% tax rate will generate a few billion at best (and that's if rich people don't duck the taxes)

Government is not going to be funding all of this by itself. Most of this will fall on the markets. Jobs created equals more tax revenue. In terms of taxes, the Dems could try what the GOP didn't. Rewrite the tax codes, remove loopholes.

 

[HellRell804]

Again, I never said nor implied that. The GND doesn't say or even suggest that. That entire rant was more hyperbole.

Read: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ed Markey’s Green New Deal Resolution




Government is not going to be funding all of this by itself. Most of this will fall on the markets. Jobs created equals more tax revenue. In terms of taxes, the Dems could try what the GOP didn't. Rewrite the tax codes, remove loopholes.

But if all fossil fuels will be eliminated and replaced by electric vehicles than how are average people supposed to get these electric vehicles? Most people keep cars for at least 10 to 15 years. Idk if you interact with normal people, but the lowest priced tesla is $40,000 which is what a new Lexus costs. Most people aren't driving around in new Lexus cars. So do they get a $30,000 check from the government to stay in compliance?

"It will fall on the market" WTF does that even mean? Money gotta come from somewhere. And what kinda taxes are we talking about that is gonna pay down a debt of 54 (the low end) to 94 trillion (the high end estimate) dollars?

And these jobs, was it not proposed that these jobs would be provided by the government. So their gonna take money from one pocket and put it in the other?

Explain it like I'm 5. What is the necessary tax rate to fund this program. Because taxing a few rich people 70% on every dollar over $10 million I don't think is gonna bring in that kind of revenue. People have revolted over high taxes, you think they can get the public on board with a 60 to 70% tax rate across the board? Cuz idk about you, but getting the majority of my wages taken without my permission to use for things I may not need or want kind of sounds like slavery lite.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

But if all fossil fuels will be eliminated and replaced by electric vehicles than how are average people supposed to get these electric vehicles? Most people keep cars for at least 10 to 15 years. Idk if you interact with normal people, but the lowest priced tesla is $40,000 which is what a new Lexus costs. Most people aren't driving around in new Lexus cars. So do they get a $30,000 check from the government to stay in compliance?

The GND doesn't say, imply, nor suggest any of that. So now we're just repeating fabrications.

"It will fall on the market" WTF does that even mean? Money gotta come from somewhere. And what kinda taxes are we talking about that is gonna pay down a debt of 54 (the low end) to 94 trillion (the high end estimate) dollars?

Congress passes said bill. States and companies now have to comply. If those companies want to continue to be in business they are going to have to produce zero-emission products. That actually means you can use fossil fuel as long as you don't create anymore carbon emissions. The market will adjust. The states will adjust. I'm sure that the gov't will provide tax-credits to move it along.

Explain it like I'm 5. What is the necessary tax rate to fund this program. Because taxing a few rich people 70% on every dollar over $10 million I don't think is gonna bring in that kind of revenue. People have revolted over high taxes, you think they can get the public on board with a 60 to 70% tax rate across the board? Cuz idk about you, but getting the majority of my wages taken without my permission to use for things I may not need or want kind of sounds like slavery lite.

I already did this for you. Rewrite the tax code and remove loopholes. People have revolted over high taxes which have done nothing to increase their quality of life. The GND increases quality of life. You'll need clean air, water, and land. You'll need transportation. You'll need roads and bridges. You'll need energy/electricity. Claiming somehow 21st century solutions to 21st centry problems sounds like "slavery life" shows you don't know what slavery is and you lean far too much on hyperbole to make your points.

 

[storyteller]

Again, how would you react if Trump used that kind of language. At best it's a poor choice of wording, at worst it underscores a list for power.

Calling it poor word choice is fine by me, my complaint is that it's that the comments you've quoted are not dictatorial in nature. If the POTUS said "no one is fixing the problem or proposing solutions, so I'm putting forward a solution" it would depend on the circumstances and context. I'm pretty certain Obama used Congressional inaction on immigration as a point for why he pushed the DREAM Act, which I understood given the circumstances for example.

And 2, no one is opposed to the concept of the green new deal, my whole point was, who and how are we supposed to pay for this. And it's not just you, everytime this question is asked its

Maybe that's been your discussion with others, I came in to laugh at the dictator characterization because it's a blatant reach. That's it. But if you want to talk about how to fund proposals in the GND, I'd say that first we need to see what specific legislation gets crafted to target each goal mentioned within. I see the GND as a set of goals, but the actual legislation that comes up to reach those will impact the prices for each aspect and some goals may be more attainable than others. It's the road map, step one, not the whole journey. However, I would point to this really useful David Pakman clip to show a bunch of examples of proposals from Dems to pay for their policy ideas in general. That's just to clarify here, that progressives do have "pay for it" suggestions in general when they make policy proposals.

About the absolute power part, you have an entire generation of new politicians who are very public about not wanting to reach across the aisle at all, even threatening to primary colleagues who step out of line. So if you have policies you want to enact and you're not willing to compromise with opposition to get them, how exactly are you going to get this legislation through without taking control.

You just said it yourself "primary colleagues who step out of line." We (Progressives) are pushing to gain control via elections and systemic processes. That's not how a dictator or absolute power works. That is poor word choice. Sparking change through collective action and electorally is kinda the opposite.

Then once you get that control you have to keep it, or you deal with what the Republicans are going through getting their comeuppance for 8 years of obstructing Obama.

At some point the petty childish back and forth power games need to stop and these politicians need to act like adults

The threat of losing control to the Republicans brings me back to why it's ridiculous to characterize these Dems as dictators. They're not stealing power or changing rules to enshrine it. They are using elections and the systemic avenues that exist in a democracy to enact change. If their strategy is poor or the majority of Americans don't agree with the direction they go in, then they'll be voted out. That was my whole point and I believe that's exactly what AOC was getting at with her challenge to critics.

 

[HellRell804]

The GND doesn't say, imply, nor suggest any of that. So now we're just repeating fabrications.



Congress passes said bill. States and companies now have to comply. If those companies want to continue to be in business they are going to have to produce zero-emission products. That actually means you can use fossil fuel as long as you don't create anymore carbon emissions. The market will adjust. The states will adjust. I'm sure that the gov't will provide tax-credits to move it along.



I already did this for you. Rewrite the tax code and remove loopholes. People have revolted over high taxes which have done nothing to increase their quality of life. The GND increases quality of life. You'll need clean air, water, and land. You'll need transportation. You'll need roads and bridges. You'll need energy/electricity. Claiming somehow 21st century solutions to 21st centry problems sounds like "slavery life" shows you don't know what slavery is and you lean far too much on hyperbole to make your points.

You do know quality of life is subjective right? Just so you know. So you cant bank on people agreeing with you that this program is worth paying the highest taxes in the free world?

Are you also going to get rid of NAFTA? Because as long as that exists, billionaires dont really have any reason to keep a US citizenship as long as it exists. I remember a certain president proposed renegotiating it and people from a certain side screamed bloody murder.

The other alternative is an "exit tax" for people renouncing citizenship but I remember a certain "Socialist" party that confiscated the wealth of a group of people as they fled and history wasn't too kind to them.

From the green new deal wiki:
"Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification."

Now I'm all for clean energy and conservation, I'm big on hemp. But do you really wanna go down the road of forcing people to spend their own money to build and renovate buildings even if they don't agree. It's one thing if the government pays for it if they want. But to force people to make improvements on all buildings in America is a flex unprecedented in US history.

All the feel good language surrounding this build masks the fact that it's a complete reconstruction of the US economy and its replacing the old corporate overlords with new "Green" corporate overlords (and I bet money they end up being the same companies).

I'm just not comfortable with the government having this amount of power, spending this amount of money, and trying to force private citizens to comply with a certain ideal.

We're just arguing in circles really because this act will never pass. Once the dollar amount gets confirmed people will rightfully the proposal.