African Involvement in the slave trade

[Czar]

@Czar

Marvel is right about West Africans being "Negro" and not "Hamitic".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic

Hamitic is a historical term for the peoples supposedly descended from Noah's son Ham, aralleling Semitic and Japhetic. It was used to label non-Semitic languages in the Afroasiatic language family, which was thus formerly labelled "Hamito-Semitic". The Hamitic languages were said to include the Berber,Cushytic and Egyptian branches.

According to the Hamitic theory this "Hamitic race" was superior to or more advanced than Negroid populations of Sub-Saharan Africa.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hamite

n.
A member of a group of peoples of northern and northeast Africa, including the Berbers, Tuaregs, and the ancient Egyptians and theirdescendants.

Not to burst your bubble @emoney but @Marvel is in fact dead wrong.

The Hamitic Hypothesis/Theory is 100% Pseudoscience and Eurocentrism at it's finest. And this is coming from someone who isn't trying to play the role of "coli militant".

From the same article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic

In the 19th century as a pseudoscientific[1][2] application of "scientific racism", European authors classified the "Hamitic race" as a sub-group of the Caucasian race, along with the Semitic race - thus grouping the non-Semitic populations native to North Africa, the Horn of Africa and South Arabia, including the Ancient Egyptians. According to the Hamitic theory this "Hamitic race" was superior to or more advanced than Negroid populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. In its most extreme form, in the writings ofC. G. Seligman, it asserted that all significant achievements in African history were the work of "Hamites" who migrated into central Africa as pastoralists, bringing technologies and civilizing skills with them. In the early twentieth century, theoretical models of Hamitic languages and of Hamitic races were intertwined.

Many versions of this perspective on African history have been proposed, and "applied" (via colonialism) to different parts of the continent. The essays below focus on the development of these ideas regarding the peoples of North, East and Southeast Africa. However, Hamitic hypotheses operated in West Africa as well, and they changed greatly over time.[6]


Bisharin man with classic Hamitic physical traits, from Augustus Henry Keane's Man, Past and Present(1899).

In the mid-19th century, the term Hamitic acquired a new meaning as a few European writers claimed to identify a distinct "Hamitic race" that was superior to "Negroid" populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. The theory arose from early anthropological writers, who linked the stories in the Bible of Noah's sons to actual ancient migrations of a supposed Middle-Eastern sub-group of the Caucasian race.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

Caucasian race (also Caucasoid[1] or Europid[2]) is the general physical type of some or all of the populations of Europe, North Africa, theHorn of Africa, Western Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.[3] The term was used in biological anthropology for many people from these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone.[4] First introduced in early racial science and anthropometry, the taxon has historically been used to denote one of the proposed major races of humankind.[5] Although its validity and utility is disputed by many anthropologists,Caucasoid as a biological classification remains in use,[6] particularly within the field of forensic anthropology.[5]

Skin color amongst Caucasoids ranges greatly from pale, reddish-white, olive, through to dark brown tones.[4]

So according to all that, @2Quik4UHoes would be considered Caucasian.



Skip to 18:08 so you can see an Egyptian girl who identifies as black, yet is being forced to list herself as white under the current census in this country.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-05.pdf

Btw, I was about to post a link to an article that really exposes the Hamitic Hypothesis. Unfortunately, it's no longer available. It appears in the Journal of African History (which is published by Cambridge University). Vol 4 (I969), Pages 521-531. I saved it on a flash drive somewhere. Soon as I find it, I'ma upload it for you.

Even reputable scholars see how that theory was nothing more than a ploy by Europeans to claim the accomplishments of other groups. This is why research is important.

@Marvel only makes appeals to it because he's bought into a pseudo-belief that claims all Africans are going to be destroyed or enslaved by God. Which is ironic to say the least, since he's African .

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

damn hi ruining threads

shout out to @Czar

Some Africans did what they did any more discussion on the subject only
furthers a white wash.

 

[Bud Bundy]

Every group prior to the 19th ccentury was enslaved/conquer. Its human nature but also how ideas/civilizations grow in a way. Everyone poster on this forum(black or white) had ancestors that were enslaved/conquered. If this wasn't the case then we would basically be like the Australian aboriginals; still in the stone age

Just because it was a wide spread practice in the past does not justify it existence nor does it mean I have be accepting of it.

 

[Danie84]

No wonder there's a disconnect between Africans and Black Americans...Inherently

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@Czar

Excellent post! You hit the nail right in the coffin. Like I said the Hamitic myth was to separate non-stereotypical looking Africans from other Africans. But also like you said; to claim every advanced civilization in Africa.

Also I watched the video you posted. I came to the conclusion that the Egyptian girls black friend is a straight up c00n and seems to subscribe to the "true negroid" nonsense.

1. "Black" is not biologically defined. You're either black or you're not. So if the Egyptian girl choses to consider himself black then she is black. I have met many Egyptians online that considered themselves black, like this one:


2. Even though today's Egyptians are heavily mixed, especially those in the North(lower Egypt). There are still Egyptians today that still carry significant number of African linkages:

There are still "black" Egyptians today in Egypt in the South:

The girl in the video seems like she is of Upper Egyptian descent, probably from Luxor. She could easily pass for a mulatto.

Like I said again her black friend and other people who hold the Hamitic theory nonsense subscribe to "true Negroid" nonsense that Africans/blacks most only look a certain way. When in fact Africans are said to be the most diverse people on the planet, with built-in diversity which has nothing to do with foreign admixture. Here's a quote that shatters there theory:

"Individuals with the same morphology do not necessarily cluster with each other by lineage, and a given lineage does not include only individuals with the same trait complex (or 'racial type'). Y-chromosome DNA from Africa alone suffices to make this point. Africa contains populations whose members have a range of external phenotypes. This variation has usually been described in terms of 'race' (Caucasoids, Pygmoids, Congoids, Khoisanoids). But the Y-chromosome clade defined by the PN2 transition (PN2/M35, PN2/M2) shatters the boundaries of phenotypically defined races and true breeding populations across a great geographical expanse. African peoples with a range of skin colors, hair forms and physiognomies have substantial percentages of males whose Y chromosomes form closely related clades with each other, but not with others who are phenotypically similar. The individuals in the morphologically or geographically defined 'races' are not characterized by 'private' distinct lineages restricted to each of them."

(S O Y Keita, R A Kittles, et al. "Conceptualizing human variation," Nature Genetics 36, S17 - S20 (2004)

Most diverse skin color:

"Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits have found higher levels of within-population diversity in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. This study examines regional differences in within-population diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe, West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the New World. Regional differences in local within population diversity were examined using two measures of variability: the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation. For both measures, the average level of within-population diversity is higher in sub Saharan Africa than in other geographic regions. This difference persists even after adjusting for a correlation between within-population diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits."

-- Relethford JH.(2000). Human skin color diversity is highest in sub-Saharan African populations. Hum Biol. 2000 Oct;72(5):773-80.)

So to me I would consider that Egyptian girl black since she chooses to consider herself black.

According to her black friend, these Khoisans are not "black":

Due to having very light skin. Yet these girls are the most "African" on the continent with the most ancient lineages and with very little foreign influence, besides with other Africans(Bantu).

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Just because it was a wide spread practice in the past does not justify it existence nor does it mean I have be accepting of it.

This isn't about "you" accepting it or not. No one mentioned you had to accept it or justify it. No one said that. Again the point is slavery has been going on since the dawn of humanity. So it shouldn't be no surprise that Africans were practicing it. But one should know that the slavery Africans practice was in no shape or form similar to the ones practiced by whites in the Americas; where slaves were treated harshly and considered sub-human. That's why whites are so guilty of slavery to this day...And are over sensitive of the subject. There is no evidence of Africans making slaves work on a plantation without rest.

 

[Mindfield333]

Black Africans were responsible for slavery. The "White man" didn't just come a take people by force like it's taught in schools.

can you read? they were primarily taking prisoners of war until free people were being kidnapped and wars were being started without merit.

they are still responsible.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Also when one talks about the Atlantic Slave trade in Africa one has to be specific. Central Africa(Angola) where most slaves were taken; most were not sold but were taken as prisoners of war by the Portuguese. Most forget that Central African kingdoms like the one Queen Nzinga was from fought long wars against slavery. In Central Africa the Portuguese were for the most part were subservient merchants to the laws of the Kingdom of Kongo, who although they practiced indentured servitude, were against the Atlantic slave trade. Most of the slaves the Portuguese got from Central Africa were true captives, illegally stolen from there land. This in part would compel the Kingdom of Kongo to go to war with the Portuguese in 1622 and all but banish them from the Central African region.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

can you read? they were primarily taking prisoners of war until free people were being kidnapped and wars were being started without merit.

they are still responsible.

Actually the Portuguese were the first ones who tried to start the Atlantic slave trade in Africa. Until they were stopped by the Mali Empire:

The first unfamiliar threat to Mali came not from the jungles or even the desert but the sea. The Portuguese arrived on the Senegambian coast in 1444,[61] and they were not coming in peace. Using caravels to launch slave raids on coastal inhabitants,[62] the Malian vassal territories were caught off guard by both vessels and the white skins within them. However, the Mali Empire countered the Portuguese raids with shallow-draught watercraft. The Mandekalu inflicted a series of defeats against the Portuguese due to the former’s expert use of poison arrows. The defeats forced Portugal’s king to dispatch his courtier Diogo Gomes in 1456 to secure peace. The effort was a success by 1462, and trade became Portugal’s focus along the Senegambia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Mali_Empire

The Portuguese were the first ones to do slave raids in Africa. And it wasn't uncommon.

 

[Bud Bundy]

This isn't about "you" accepting it or not. No one mentioned you had to accept it or justify it. No one said that. Again the point is slavery has been going on since the dawn of humanity. So it shouldn't be no surprise that Africans were practicing it. But one should know that the slavery Africans practice was in no shape or form similar to the ones practiced by whites in the Americas; where slaves were treated harshly and considered sub-human. That's why whites are so guilty of slavery to this day...And are over sensitive of the subject. There is no evidence of Africans making slaves work on a plantation without rest.

I was not surprised by it and I don't care how well they treated them.

 

[Marvel]

@Czar

Marvel is right about West Africans being "Negro" and not "Hamitic".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic

Hamitic is a historical term for the peoples supposedly descended from Noah's son Ham, aralleling Semitic and Japhetic. It was used to label non-Semitic languages in the Afroasiatic language family, which was thus formerly labelled "Hamito-Semitic". The Hamitic languages were said to include the Berber,Cushytic and Egyptian branches.

According to the Hamitic theory this "Hamitic race" was superior to or more advanced than Negroid populations of Sub-Saharan Africa.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hamite

n.
A member of a group of peoples of northern and northeast Africa, including the Berbers, Tuaregs, and the ancient Egyptians and their descendants.

Exactly, don't mind them. They would rather listen to white boys about what happened in Africa.

Zondervan’s Compact Bible Dictionary:

Ham – The youngest son of Noah, born probably about 96 years before the Flood; and one of eight persons to live through the Flood. He became the progenitor of the dark races; not the Negroes, but the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites.

There is a reason why a certain Ethiopian is coming against the truth, because he is a Hamite. Most so-called Negroes come from the Shemetic branch, not the Hamitic branch. Hamites do not dominate sprinting based sports for a reason, we are not the same people.

 

[Marvel]

I'm still tripping that he's Nigerian. I'm curious as to how the recruitment process went. @Marvel, how did you prove to your brethren that you were not a Hamite B? Did you have to produce some type of paperwork? Maybe some genetic analysis from 23andme?

Hey Hamite, your people can't even compete in hand to hand combat or real sports with people on the other side of Africa for a reason. You have no problem admitting that the Chinese, Malaysians, and Japanese are different. You are upset that we are not claiming to be down with you. A Kenyan competing against a so-called Igbo or a so-called Ghanaian in anything is joke.

Exodus 11
7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the Lord doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.

You are weak Hamites, just stick to long distance running because you will need it when you are being chased down by the real Israelites on day of judgement.

Micah 5
8 And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

 

[Marvel]

Also when one talks about the Atlantic Slave trade in Africa one has to be specific. Central Africa(Angola) where most slaves were taken; most were not sold but were taken as prisoners of war by the Portuguese. Most forget that Central African kingdoms like the one Queen Nzinga was from fought long wars against slavery. In Central Africa the Portuguese were for the most part were subservient merchants to the laws of the Kingdom of Kongo, who although they practiced indentured servitude, were against the Atlantic slave trade. Most of the slaves the Portuguese got from Central Africa were true captives, illegally stolen from there land. This in part would compel the Kingdom of Kongo to go to war with the Portuguese in 1622 and all but banish them from the Central African region.

True, Congo and Angola had a lot of people taken to south America, especially Brazil. Don't forget about the slavery of Congo under that devil, King Leopold of Belgium.

 

[emoney]

Not to burst your bubble @emoney but @Marvel is in fact dead wrong.

The Hamitic Hypothesis/Theory is 100% Pseudoscience and Eurocentrism at it's finest. And this is coming from someone who isn't trying to play the role of "coli militant".

From the same article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race



So according to all that, @2Quik4UHoes would be considered Caucasian.



Skip to 18:08 so you can see an Egyptian girl who identifies as black, yet is being forced to list herself as white under the current census in this country.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-05.pdf

Btw, I was about to post a link to an article that really exposes the Hamitic Hypothesis. Unfortunately, it's no longer available. It appears in the Journal of African History (which is published by Cambridge University). Vol 4 (I969), Pages 521-531. I saved it on a flash drive somewhere. Soon as I find it, I'ma upload it for you.

Even reputable scholars see how that theory was nothing more than a ploy by Europeans to claim the accomplishments of other groups. This is why research is important.

@Marvel only makes appeals to it because he's bought into a pseudo-belief that claims all Africans are going to be destroyed or enslaved by God. Which is ironic to say the least, since he's African .

You didn't burst my bubble tho.

The theory is pseudoscience.

But that does not mean the existence of a Hamitic people is false.

There are Hamitic Africans and Negro Africans.

"Negroes" were primarily in West and West-Central Africa...they were the ones who came into contact with Spanish and Portuguese (the first Europeans to explore the coastal of that region of Africa)..thus being called "Negro" a Spanish/Portuguese/Iberian word for "Black". It was people from this region that made up the bulk majority of slaves in the new world. Hamitic Africans were not taken into slavery in the Americas because they were considered "Caucasian" and more "advanced".

BTW, I don't agree Hamitic peoples are Caucasian but many of them do have Caucasian traits (Limb proportions, phenotype, hair texture, etc.). If you look at an Ethiopian or Somali they look different then a Nigerian or a Ghanaian..let's keep it funky and stop with all the games.





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[Marvel]

You didn't burst my bubble tho.

The theory is pseudoscience.

But that does not mean the existence of a Hamitic people is false.

There are Hamitic Africans and Negro Africans.

"Negroes" were primarily in West and West-Central Africa...they were the ones who came into contact with Spanish and Portuguese (the first Europeans to explore the coastal of that region of Africa)..thus being called "Negro" a Spanish/Portuguese/Iberian word for "Black". It was people from this region that made up the bulk majority of slaves in the new world. Hamitic Africans were not taken into slavery in the Americas because they were considered "Caucasian" and more "advanced".

BTW, I don't agree Hamitic peoples are Caucasian but many of them do have Caucasian traits (Limb proportions, phenotype, hair texture, etc.). If you look at an Ethiopian or Somali they look different then a Nigerian or a Ghanaian..let's keep it funky and stop with all the games.





.

Breh, they don't want to admit that though yet an Ethiopian feels superiors to the so-called Negroes. They are quick to let you know that we are not the same people and I agree that we are not the same. But on the coli, they want to click up with us like they understand the struggle. The Khazars in the land of Israel even accept them. And just like you said, Hamitic people are not Caucasian or vice versa. Never in history have white people ever said they were from Ham, they used pseudoscience to try and make links with Ethiopians so they can claim some glory of Ancient Hamitic empires through them. Which is the reason why today Ancient Egyptians are considered tanned white people by many today. Its all part of the deception.