Afram history that's hardly ever talked about: Black Loyalist->Nova Scotion->Sierre Leone Creole

[Poitier]

not that i know the answer to your question but europeans often mislabeled the ethnic origins of slaves or named them after the ports they were exported from so just because one was for example taken from Elmina (often they were called Mina) doesn't mean they were Asante/Fante (whom we associated with Gold Coast where Elmina was)

Yeah, thats essentially what the source I was reading said. Just seems like an ambiguous catch all term but I was hoping to find out a more detailed background about the enslaved African population behind those particular conspiracies but most likely impossible for the reasons you stated.

 

[Apollo Creed]

not that i know the answer to your question but europeans often mislabeled the ethnic origins of slaves or named them after the ports they were exported from so just because one was for example taken from Elmina (often they were called Mina) doesn't mean they were Asante/Fante (whom we associated with Gold Coast where Elmina was)

Yeah like anyone that was Muslim was labeled Mandingo much of the time. European ignorance makes a lot of this stuff difficult to research since we have to look at things from their narrative. If I wasn't Mande myself and researching my own history and the connection the new world It would be easy for some things not to stick out. Thats why I said the European titles for some regions are very misleading until you actually examine the history of the people in those regions and when and how they got there. A lot of people don't know that Coastal West Africa was the LAST stop for many Modern day West Africans who didn't even get there until the 1600-1700s or later. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a correlation of the migrations due to political turmoil in the Sahel and who did or didnt escape slavery. The migrations simply happen too close to when the Transatlantic slave trade popped off. 50-100 years from a group of people leaving somewhere and slavery popping off large scale can't be a coincidence.

 

[BigMan]

Yeah, thats essentially what the source I was reading said. Just seems like an ambiguous catch all term but I was hoping to find out a more detailed background about the enslaved African population behind those particular conspiracies but most likely impossible for the reasons you stated.

i also read a source that said some of the SE Bantu ancestry that shows up in diasporic populations can be attributed to Central Africans who carried some of that DNA. dunno how that works but its interesting

 

[Apollo Creed]

i also read a source that said some of the SE Bantu ancestry that shows up in diasporic populations can be attributed to Central Africans who carried some of that DNA. dunno how that works but its interesting

My ancestry has 2-3% SE Bantu & Africa South-Central Hunter Gathers (Some sites just group them together as South African but Ancestry splits them). I just assumed it's from some ancient Ancestor, but I'm not sure the % that show up for say an AA or someone from the Caribbean.

Folklore for many Mande groups state similarly that they originated in East Africa, Migrated to Egypt and the Levant and then to the Sahel. People often use this to correlate the "Black people are the real Jews" theory (not just from a migration standpoint but many groups have traditions that one would deem "hebrew". But thats another story for another day.

 

[Yehuda]

@IllmaticDelta

I see "Mina" listed under Bight of Benin but is that an actual ethnic group?
I was reading up on the Mina communities in NOLA and S America/Spanish Caribbean and there seems to be some confusion about the term.
Seems like it could also apply to the Gold Coast
Kind of off topic but I only ask because I was trying to find out more about the Point Coupee and Mina "conspiracies."

https://books.google.com/books?id=uFodWson5NAC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=Mina+(Louisiana)&source=bl&ots=uJhjlD6NFC&sig=xzV5FLQEkMu6WTzllltzE6IJSyQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis8qvr36HYAhWo6YMKHcYDAfQQ6AEIYjAO#v=onepage&q=Mina (Louisiana)&f=false

Where I'm from that meant anywhere East of Elmina. Then again there was a broad in here that said her family speaks Mina. I don't know the name of the people that speak that but they live around the border with Togo.

Edit:

From Ethnicities of Enslaved Africans in the Diaspora: On the Meanings of “Mina” (Again) . History in Africa, 32, pp 247-267.

 

[Samori Toure]

You gotta understand the Modern Nations are irrelevant. Regardless of the country much of the AAs in the Low Country come from the Mande Ethnic group, and while the tribes in the ethnic group spoke different (but similar) languages, the cultures are the same/very similar. I believe this aided in many groups being able to retain culture that AAs passed down generationally. Also didn't most of the Slave Revolts in America happen in like the Carolinas or something? Like I said before I think although the languages were different the cultures were similar which made it a tad easier for people to eventually communicate and get on code.

In theory Sierra Leone is not a modern nation; although I guess technically it wasn't a nation but a territory before colonialism. The Mane people (Mande tribes) had invaded the region in order to gain access to the sea to support their interior trade routes. The Portuguese wrote about that invasion when they arrived in the region, which was later confirmed and thought to have originated because the Kingdom of Mali had went into decline after the Kingdom of Songhay had arose. For some reason I think that the movement westward for the Mande people had something to do with salt, which could no longer be gotten from inland trade routes due to the Taureg people rebellion in conjunciton with the rise of Songhay. Therefore I think that the Mande people had to fight their way to the Ocean in order to mine ocean salt. At least that is what I think that I remember reading.

Now Liberia is different, but it was also a region that the Mane invaded. The Mande peopel were already in the Ivory Coast and at Kabuu (modern day Guinea-Bissau), which was their furthest military outpost. in teh

Yeah most of people originally taken to Carolina

 

[Samori Toure]

Lot, sure. Most? idk about that. Once again, the reason the Carolinas had so many rebellions early on was due to the presence of slaves who understood Portuguese....thats why they fled to Spanish territory in the 1st place. Mande peoples would not be aware of this.



Gullah Jack, for instance, who was from Zanzibar.

I don't think that is technically correct, because Portuguese had trade ties with the Mande people after the Mane Invasion into Sierra Leone.

I think that the Kongo and Angolan Catholic roots had more to do with their desiring to go to Florida with the Spanish. As you well know the Spanish would have had nothing to do with the Mande people, because many of them were Muslim and the Spanish after it conquest was not open to any dealings with the Jews and Muslims.

 

[Samori Toure]

Also with the Mande connection I believe this is why people from the outside use Mande and Mandingo interchangeable (incorrectly), being that we all inhabited Mali. I also believe it ties in to how Mandingo became synonymous with "Big Brute Black Men" as it was a descriptor to describe characteristics of Mande Slaves (due to us all have a common ancestor/ancestors).

For example Mande people are often times tall (I'm 6'3 my grandfather was 6'6) while the people who inhabited Liberia where my parents are from before our Tribe got there are historically short people.

Yep. Once in America all of the Mande slaves, including the the Mende, were often time just labeled as Mandingos. That is where it comes from and on my mother's side of the family all of the men, except for my brother and 2 of my cousins; are between "6'1" through "6'6". That is something like 30 other guys.

 

[Samori Toure]

so i'm guessing the Mande were originally one people living in Mali and then dispersed towards the coast after the fall of Ghana/Mali/Songhai?

Yes that dispersal was called the Mane (Mande) Invasion. It was a major historical event which coincided with the rise of Songhay.

 

[Poitier]

I don't think that is technically correct, because Portuguese had trade ties with the Mande people after the Mane Invasion into Sierra Leone.

I think that the Kongo and Angolan Catholic roots had more to do with their desiring to go to Florida with the Spanish. As you well know the Spanish would have had nothing to do with the Mande people, because many of them were Muslim and the Spanish after it conquest was not open to any dealings with the Jews and Muslims.

Trade ties but fluency in Iberian languages? It also seems that Portuguese trade did not last as long in West Africa. I do think Catholicism was the biggest factor, though.

 

[BigMan]

Yep. Once in America all of the Mande slaves, including the the Mende, were often time just labeled as Mandingos. That is where it comes from and on my mother's side of the family all of the men, except for my brother and 2 of my cousins; are between "6'1" through "6'6". That is something like 30 other guys.

i didn't get any of those height genes

 

[Samori Toure]

i didn't get any of those height genes

Sorry breh, it ain't all that it is cracked up to be.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

i didn't get any of those height genes

Spoiler

Spoiler

jk... or am I?

 

[Apollo Creed]

Trade ties but fluency in Iberian languages? It also seems that Portuguese trade did not last as long in West Africa. I do think Catholicism was the biggest factor, though.

There are places in Liberia with Portugese names like Cape Palmas and Cape Mesurado (where Monrovia is). These places got their names in the 1500s so imo it is not far fetched that prior to full blown slavery popping off that there were Africans who picked up languages such as Portuguese for commerce purposes. You have like the Kru (they arent a Mande tribe) who worked as Sailors on slave ships because they were skilled in navigating the ocean (ironically they worked on ships but were considered one of the hardest to enslave due to them committing suicide when captured or just fighting back). They also were interpreters on the slave ship so imo it isn't too surprising there were Africans who could speak these languages since many groups have always done trade with Europeans.

 

[BigMan]

Spoiler

Spoiler

jk... or am I?

There are places in Liberia with Portugese names like Cape Palmas and Cape Mesurado (where Monrovia is). These places got their names in the 1500s so imo it is not far fetched that prior to full blown slavery popping off that there were Africans who picked up languages such as Portuguese for commerce purposes. You have like the Kru (they arent a Mande tribe) who worked as Sailors on slave ships because they were skilled in navigating the ocean (ironically they worked on ships but were considered one of the hardest to enslave due to them committing suicide when captured or just fighting back). They also were interpreters on the slave ship so imo it isn't too surprising there were Africans who could speak these languages since many groups have always done trade with Europeans.

It’s likely that west African english pidgin had a Portuguese substrate
Some say that’s where New world creole languages come from (the other hypothesis is they were created in the new world)