AEW 5 YEAR REPORT CARD - give your letter grade of AEW as a promotion to date

[Finn Baller]

but this is our individual opinions and how we are individually entertained

My grade was based on the overall business of it etc

If i was grading things based on my own individual enjoyment of AEW it would probably be a solid C

 

[Jmare007]

I think this CMLL run is both impressive but also meh on a global scale. You say they fill arenas with 10k people every week. That's true in a sense... but it's pretty much the same people in the same arena. So while it's impressive, it doesn't hit for me like a touring company.

Also, if CMLL has no intentions of being "global" then why do partnerships with NJPW and now AEW? I think it's pretty obvious they are trying to expand to some extent...

Also, I didn't mean to suggest that big shows didn't exist prior to the mid 80s... I know they existed, Mid-South had some huge shows in New Orleans as an example.. but their peak was even shorter than whatever we are calling AEW's "peak" and AEW is still doing numbers in some situations.

Anyone who voted less than a B- is hating or trolling because AEW has a strong case as the 4th most successful wrestling promotion of all time.

I'm so confused breh, why are you putting so much stock on U.S a promotion that was created in 2019 being "global" (whatever that means)?

I mean, CMLL, has done shows in Japan for 15 years and they do well. But again, they are a 90 year promotion that's never cared about doing much outside of Mexico. They have relationships with other promotions to exchange talent, try to draw some crowds and give their own talent other places to work in but they have no intention in establishing themselves in other countries, I that's pretty evident.

I have no idea why that would put them below a 5 year company that had 3 successful years And CMLL does shows in different part of México so they really don't have the same people at the same arena. Shiiit, if AEW became a touring destination that could get 6-14k people every week can you imagine the narrative their stans would create

Mid-South's "peak" was way longer than AEW's. They were running 10 to 20k shows multiple times a year in the Superdome for a whole ass decade. Plus their peak TV years in the mid 80's also had them running shows at 7-10k arenas (not selling them all out of course, but you get my point).

I voted B+ but you are trying too hard with this AEW is a top 4 promotion ever point

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I'm so confused breh, why are you putting so much stock on U.S a promotion that was created in 2019 being "global" (whatever that means)?

Breh they have television deals in various countries. That's global. They put on a show with 80,000 people in London. They are putting on another one that's looking to be well over 50,000 maybe more. They have streams of revenue coming in from around the world.

That's not a big deal for a promotion that's been around for 5 years?

I think you're off on Mid-South... They were big from around '80-'85 or so.. that was when they had the big JYD and Freebirds feuds going on and shyt.. I discussed the New Orleans shows, they were pretty much done after that though.

I'm not going to agree on CMLL. They are big in Mexico and nowhere else.

 

[Cattle Mutilation]

I feel like rating AEW a D or F is being disingenuous here. And people are using the WWE argument wrong—look at it from this perspective instead of saying AEW made WWE get their shyt together, AEW fed us when WWE was at its lowest of the lows. I mentally prepared myself to stop being a wrestling fan those years when Vince booked all-time woat shyt until TK came along.

From AEW’s origins to Bryan Danielson and Cm Punk era to even just the fire ppvs today I believe it’s fukked up to lower the first five years less than a C.

And let me say a C for a promotion that didn’t exist five years ago is acceptable. Just like AEW fans are stupid for saying all the storylines happen during the matches, wrestling fans are stupid for comparing the first five years of a promotion to a promotion that has been around for decades is dumb as fukk. I couldn’t rate the first five years of WWF/WWE because I wasn’t even alive to experience that shyt lol.

All the cons about AEW has been stated over and over here. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt because what can you know about booking in the first five years of building a wrestling promotion? I know people want to use ECW as an example with Heyman’s genius mind but that would ignore the fact that Heyman spent years in the wrestling business lol


To summarize though, it’s sad how nobody feels special. All those posts and internet hype over Mercedes and Okada just for them to feel like regular folks and they haven’t even been in the company for half a year. The PPVs for AEW are absolute bangers but TK needs to change his approach with creative.

And Heyman’s “genius” booking didn’t work out particularly well financially.

 

[Jmare007]

Breh they have television deals in various countries. That's global. They put on a show with 80,000 people in London. They are putting on another one that's looking to be well over 50,000 maybe more. They have streams of revenue coming in from around the world.

That's not a big deal for a promotion that's been around for 5 years?

I think you're off on Mid-South... They were big from around '80-'85 or so.. that was when they had the big JYD and Freebirds feuds going on and shyt.. I discussed the New Orleans shows, they were pretty much done after that though.

I'm not going to agree on CMLL. They are big in Mexico and nowhere else.

Of course that's big and unique. Never argued the opposite. I've said in each post how impressive AEW's run has been...

I'm not off on Mid South, here's a list of all the "Superdome Stravaganza" shows CLICK HERE. They had a 10 year run with 28 shows from 76' to 86' that did between 10k and 20k (and then in 87 it all went to shyt, lol). AND you have to add to those events all the other shows they ran in arenas of 5-7k or more because the Superdome shows weren't the only ones that were successful. The JYD vs Freebirds was not the only program that was a hit in Mid South either.

And no one is arguing against CMLL only being big in México, that's obviously a fact. I'm just confused as to why you put a promotion running shows in England and Canada for 2 years and never running a profit as somehow being bigger than a promotion that has lasted almost a century that has turned a profit for many, maaany years with big crowds and shows in basically every decade. It's a take to me.

Having an incredible achievement as All In does not make AEW jump ahead a ton of companies that have actually turned a profit and also run a bunch of 10k+ shows for longer than AEW. I just can't wrap my ahead around that logic.

 

[mannyrs13]

Gonna be interesting to see how things look if a 10 year report card thread is made and how much the grades may have changed by then.

 

[Brad Piff]

Gotta love when someone’s opinion is incorrect but they can never admit they’re wrong so they gotta double down on their ridiculous takes and make themselves look even dumber

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Having an incredible achievement as All In does not make AEW jump ahead a ton of companies that have actually turned a profit and also run a bunch of 10k+ shows for longer than AEW. I just can't wrap my ahead around that logic.

You just said you couldn't compare revenue from decade to decade which is a bit absurd because you absolutely can adjust for inflation but now you're in here talking about "profitability" so I guess we just gonna discuss the negatives to fit one narrative but overlook the positives Lol.

Name me the companies in history pulling in anywhere close to $250M in revenue even when you adjust for inflation...

You're ignoring one of the key reasons why AEW is fine while operating in the red. Reason being: 1. Because of how much revenue they bring in they can afford to operate at a loss because they know where they can cut costs if they had to and 2. Because they are preparing for increased television rights. That's how start up companies work. How long was Tesla, Uber, etc.. in the red... Netflix was in the red for over a decade... That's not the only number that a business is going to look at. If they get the increased revenue from the streams they are expecting then they continue to spend as is... if they don't match the numbers, then they cut costs where it's needed.

You zeroing in on profitability when a company is 5 years old and bringing in revenue that probably only WWE has seen in this field..... nah lol

 

[Jmare007]

You just said you couldn't compare revenue from decade to decade which is a bit absurd because you absolutely can adjust for inflation but now you're in here talking about "profitability" so I guess we just gonna discuss the negatives to fit one narrative but overlook the positives Lol.

I'm just pointing out how big those promotions are or how successful other territories were. In my first reply I said it was unfair because going to a wrestling show in the U.S in those days was much easier (and cheaper than today). You were the one saying Mid South's run was shorter than AEW's, I literally gave you evidence of the contrary and you just shrugged it off

Name me the companies in history pulling in anywhere close to $250M in revenue even when you adjust for inflation...

You're ignoring one of the key reasons why AEW is fine while operating in the red. Reason being: 1. Because of how much revenue they bring in they can afford to operate at a loss because they know where they can cut costs if they had to and 2. Because they are preparing for increased television rights. That's how start up companies work. How long was Tesla, Uber, etc.. in the red... Netflix was in the red for over a decade... That's not the only number that a business is going to look at. If they get the increased revenue from the streams they are expecting then they continue to spend as is... if they don't match the numbers, then they cut costs where it's needed.

You zeroing in on profitability when a company is 5 years old and bringing in revenue that probably only WWE has seen in this field..... nah lol

My whole point is that just using revenue to put AEW above so many other companies doesn't sit well with me. It just comes off as using 1 metric to prove a point for no other reason than to say AEW is "bigger" than those promotions. When has revenue been a measuring stick to anything? That's why it confuses me. If we take revenue as a comp, all we have left is attendance because TV ratings would be even more ridiculous (because of the nature of TV and the insanely high ratings territories like Memphis were doing locally, and as its been stated, that's not a fair 1 to 1 comp either).

You are saying I'm zeroing in on profitability and I guess I am, probably because I think that's more valuable to a company than zeroing in on revenue like you are doing specially when we have a ton of examples of promotions doing it for double, triple or even more time than AEW's entire existence.

AEW being able to take advantage (and hopefully continuing to do so) of the 2010's-2020's TV deals boom/bubble is something that should be applauded and recognized. But it's not something that impresses me to the point of putting them above a lot of the companies you listed because it's vastly different contexts and completely different business models.

I'll tell you this though, if AEW is able to keep going for 10 years, THEN I'd agree with you. By 2029 there's gonna be enough metrics, besides just revenue, that make their case undeniable. But in 2024, I don't see it.

And shyt breh, you were the one that @ me and asked for my opinion

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I'm just pointing out how big those promotions are or how successful other territories were. In my first reply I said it was unfair because going to a wrestling show in the U.S in those days was much easier (and cheaper than today). You were the one saying Mid South's run was shorter than AEW's, I literally gave you evidence of the contrary and you just shrugged it off

My whole point is that just using revenue to put AEW above so many other companies doesn't sit well with me. It just comes off as using 1 metric to prove a point for no other reason than to say AEW is "bigger" than those promotions. When has revenue been a measuring stick to anything? That's why it confuses me. If we take revenue as a comp, all we have left is attendance because TV ratings would be even more ridiculous (because of the nature of TV and the insanely high ratings territories like Memphis were doing locally, and as its been stated, that's not a fair 1 to 1 comp either).

You are saying I'm zeroing in on profitability and I guess I am, probably because I think that's more valuable to a company than zeroing in on revenue like you are doing specially when we have a ton of examples of promotions doing it for double, triple or even more time than AEW's entire existence.

AEW being able to take advantage (and hopefully continuing to do so) of the 2010's-2020's TV deals boom/bubble is something that should be applauded and recognized. But it's not something that impresses me to the point of putting them above a lot of the companies you listed because it's vastly different contexts and completely different business models.

I'll tell you this though, if AEW is able to keep going for 10 years, THEN I'd agree with you. By 2029 there's gonna be enough metrics, besides just revenue, that make their case undeniable. But in 2024, I don't see it.

And shyt breh, you were the one that @ me and asked for my opinion

I only zeroed in on revenue because as you stated here you were making profitability part of your case, if you want to say it's too early to double down on revenue that's fine but I would say it's way too early to discuss profitability when AEW is a startup corporation by design instead of say an indy fed that lives and dies by the week to week ticket sales.

On the Mid-South/Memphis and CMLL points where we are discussing attendance figures, I have no issue with including the 5-7K arena attendance figures they were doing but then we have to include all of the shows that AEW has done similar numbers and to be honest, I think even when AEW does over 4K on a Dynamite or Collision they are probably pulling in more money from their live gates on those shows even when you adjust for inflation.

I mentioned JYD/Freebirds because those are the 'super shows' at the Superdome that were doing the 25,000-30,000 figures for Mid-South and I see that as their peak years. AEW is on a decline right now but they've already sold well over 40,000 tickets for 'ALL IN' this year and it's only May. I'd expect that number to go up.

I don't think AEW loses decisively on attendance even in their current down period because they still have 'ALL IN' and they still have the PPVs that are doing anywhere from 7k-10k and random episodes like a 'Big Business' that did close to 10k or that show recently in Vancouver that did 7K. Etc...

Also, I tagged you because you're one of the people here who knows wrestling history.

 

[Kidd Dibiase]

 

[El Poyo Loco]

Today on the ABC After School Special

It was a promising promotion
It was rising quickly in ratings
It gave young guys a shot
It gave under used talent another vehicle
It had known veterans
A rich nepo baby
A tv network
A fan base of neckbeards

But

How did it all come crashing down so quick
What happened?
Who's responsible?
If and how can they recover

Jim Cornette says "It's the drizzling shyts"
Vince Russo says "WTF BRO"
Bret Hart says "It's still better than Goldberg"

SHOOTING STAR: The 5 Year Story Of All Elite Wrestling

 

[Jmare007]

I only zeroed in on revenue because as you stated here you were making profitability part of your case, if you want to say it's too early to double down on revenue that's fine but I would say it's way too early to discuss profitability when AEW is a startup corporation by design instead of say an indy fed that lives and dies by the week to week ticket sales.

But again, if you compare AEW with AAA, for example, they lose that comp too. AAA got their Televisa deal right away (like AEW with TNT) and started doing good business. By year one they had Triplemania I selling 40k tickets and two big shows in L.A (more than 15k paid), by year two they had big shows in México, the U.S and Japan. I just fail to see why I should put AEW above them. AEW's revenue coming from WBD isn't that much more impressive to me to make them leap other companie's hot runs. I guess that's what we are never gonna agree with.

I mean, if Televisa in 1994 had the kind of money WBD has, plus the need for content as current U.S TV networks, who knows what kind of deal they get. Same with All Japan with NTV in the 80's and 90's or AJW with Fuji TV in the 80's. That's kinda were I'm coming from, current TV deals are a massive source of revenue that wrestling has never seen before and it's exclusively something that's been available in the last 10 years.

On the Mid-South/Memphis and CMLL points where we are discussing attendance figures, I have no issue with including the 5-7K arena attendance figures they were doing but then we have to include all of the shows that AEW has done similar numbers and to be honest, I think even when AEW does over 4K on a Dynamite or Collision they are probably pulling in more money from their live gates on those shows even when you adjust for inflation.

I also think you are heavily downplaying how many of those shows those promotions ran for a number of hot periods. Just by the numbers I sent you in that Mid-South link, you have at least four shows in 1984 that had revenues from 300k to 530k (adjusted for inflation). And had at least three in 1978 that racked in 375k, 480k and 710k (adjusted).

We don't have the data of every show, let alone of every gate those promotions did in those hot periods, but what we do have shows is they were generating a lot of money, specially in the context of the time. You also have to factor in that a ton promoters always wanted to downplay how much money they were making because they didn't want the boys to know and ask for more $$$ for their bookings Jerry Jarret was famous for being a cheap b*stard.

I mentioned JYD/Freebirds because those are the 'super shows' at the Superdome that were doing the 25,000-30,000 figures for Mid-South and I see that as their peak years.

I think that's a mistake, the fact they didn't top a Superdome show like the ones with the Freebirds doesn't take away from the fact that JYD had other very successful programs and later guys like Duggan and DiBiase did as well.

It's like judging Memphis only for the Sputnik Monroe days doing 20k in baseball parks and not taking into account that Jackie Fargo Jerry Lawler also had very successful runs.

AEW is on a decline right now but they've already sold well over 40,000 tickets for 'ALL IN' this year and it's only May. I'd expect that number to go up.

I don't think AEW loses decisively on attendance even in their current down period because they still have 'ALL IN' and they still have the PPVs that are doing anywhere from 7k-10k and random episodes like a 'Big Business' that did close to 10k or that show recently in Vancouver that did 7K. Etc...

Decisevily I'd say they lose to promotions like AWA, CMLL, All Japan and AJW. And specially AWA is really not close breh, that shyt had huge peaks.

With other U.S territories I'd love to have more data than what we have but from what it's available, I don't see how AEW pulls ahead from the promotions we've already discussed (attendance wise).

But again, those were different times, Memphis was selling ringside tickets at $5 but the product was hot as hell. Trying to see it with 2024 eyes, I'm sure they wouldn't be running the Mid-South Colliseum as much as they did, but they could definetely sell out with current prices for the big feuds that involved guys like Fargo and Lawler in the Grizzlies Arena.

 

[Cattle Mutilation]

Too many people writing dissertations in this thread.

 

[Jmare007]

Too many people writing dissertations in this thread.

I like arguing with data and about old wrestling