"Abbott Elementary" TV comedy about a Philly public school

WIA20XX

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I'm afraid I have to disagree about Ava. You see her doing her job this season and helping students and teachers and giving guidance, whereas in the first season, she was only out there stunting and not giving a fukk.

This new Helpful and Professional Ava comes from where exactly?

That's not what the writers established her as.

So if she changes, good writing tells us why.

In the episode where Janine is sick and Ava has to handle the class, the writers reinforce how much Ava doesn't know what she's doing. But during this very same season, she's flowing from the survival scrolls like she was Barbara.
 

mastermind

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This new Helpful and Professional Ava comes from where exactly?

That's not what the writers established her as.

So if she changes, good writing tells us why.

In the episode where Janine is sick and Ava has to handle the class, the writers reinforce how much Ava doesn't know what she's doing. But during this very same season, she's flowing from the survival scrolls like she was Barbara.
It comes from her not being the one-dimensional monster she was intentionally portrayed as. That's called growth.

Like Ava is nuts, but she isn't a villain and I don't think the show has ever tried to portray her as that.
 

King_Kamala61

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This new Helpful and Professional Ava comes from where exactly?

That's not what the writers established her as.

So if she changes, good writing tells us why.

In the episode where Janine is sick and Ava has to handle the class, the writers reinforce how much Ava doesn't know what she's doing. But during this very same season, she's flowing from the survival scrolls like she was Barbara.
She almost loss her job and realized that she needed to step up. It happened during season 2. Remember when she gave her speech about how much the teachers care at Abbott Elem?
 

WIA20XX

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She almost loss her job and realized that she needed to step up. It happened during season 2. Remember when she gave her speech about how much the teachers care at Abbott Elem?

I do remember that.

I don't remember her suddenly getting a degree in education or management as a result.
I don't remember her getting any type of counseling to deal with her raging narcissism and selfishness.

And that's fine. That's the character. That's what the character is. That's how a lot of real life teachers feel about principals that come in without teaching experience.

In S1, she wasn't written to be a character that grows.
I'd argue she wasn't even really written to be a character with depth.

The writers throw in this exception of her older family member causing her to reneg on her promise - and even then, we see she's more than just a caricature - but she doesn't learn any lessons from that and apply to grow her character into something responsible. We get insight that Ava cares about things and isn't totally vapid, but it's clear that she doesn't truly care about the kids, the school, or the teachers, just herself and her world.

If the writers change the character, which is what they're doing with Ava, they should show why the change is happening.

That's why I was asking the writers in the discussion to comment. Maybe they're seeing some thing in the text, not attributing outside forces/their own imaginations to her change in character.

Take Janine for instance. She's still solving problems that don't need to be solved. This is despite episode after episode of that life strategy failing.

But...

That's the main device in the show.
  • Some problem happens with the school.
  • The veterans say, don't try to fix it.
  • Janine tries to fix things, and things predictably get worse.
  • At the end, Janine learns to just tow the line and not buck the system.
But then....there's meta commentary about that when the coffee machine breaks and the veteran teachers realize they actually need Janine to do things that need to be done. (again, in the reviews and commentary, not much is said about this, but I don't think people watch this show that closely - cause most people are not writers, they're just consumers and watchers)

If Janine gets any sort of character growth in terms of not trying to fix things, the writers will have to come up with a new plot.

But with Janine, we do see character growth in terms of her class room management. Throughout S1, she's had to deal with problem classes, problem kids, etc. At the end of S1, she gets them kids on the bus to be quiet. With this season, Janine doesn't have class room management issues.

All of that is in the show. We the audience see it. That's clear character growth that the audience can follow and understand why.

Ava is just randomly changing from scammer queen to responsible principal and back to Social Media Thot.

It's clear that she's the breakout character of the show - but that's a result of the writers giving her this bigger than life/wild persona to play off the "boring" characters. The writers are giving her the best lines for the most part. So she's JJ from Good Times, Darius from ATL, Barney Stinson from How I Met Your Mother.

The show doesn't have to perfectly mirror reality, but it does need to be consistent with the characters it creates.
 

King_Kamala61

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I do remember that.

I don't remember her suddenly getting a degree in education or management as a result.
I don't remember her getting any type of counseling to deal with her raging narcissism and selfishness.

And that's fine. That's the character. That's what the character is. That's how a lot of real life teachers feel about principals that come in without teaching experience.

In S1, she wasn't written to be a character that grows.
I'd argue she wasn't even really written to be a character with depth.

The writers throw in this exception of her older family member causing her to reneg on her promise - and even then, we see she's more than just a caricature - but she doesn't learn any lessons from that and apply to grow her character into something responsible. We get insight that Ava cares about things and isn't totally vapid, but it's clear that she doesn't truly care about the kids, the school, or the teachers, just herself and her world.

If the writers change the character, which is what they're doing with Ava, they should show why the change is happening.

That's why I was asking the writers in the discussion to comment. Maybe they're seeing some thing in the text, not attributing outside forces/their own imaginations to her change in character.

Take Janine for instance. She's still solving problems that don't need to be solved. This is despite episode after episode of that life strategy failing.

But...

That's the main device in the show.
  • Some problem happens with the school.
  • The veterans say, don't try to fix it.
  • Janine tries to fix things, and things predictably get worse.
  • At the end, Janine learns to just tow the line and not buck the system.
But then....there's meta commentary about that when the coffee machine breaks and the veteran teachers realize they actually need Janine to do things that need to be done. (again, in the reviews and commentary, not much is said about this, but I don't think people watch this show that closely - cause most people are not writers, they're just consumers and watchers)

If Janine gets any sort of character growth in terms of not trying to fix things, the writers will have to come up with a new plot.

But with Janine, we do see character growth in terms of her class room management. Throughout S1, she's had to deal with problem classes, problem kids, etc. At the end of S1, she gets them kids on the bus to be quiet. With this season, Janine doesn't have class room management issues.

All of that is in the show. We the audience see it. That's clear character growth that the audience can follow and understand why.

Ava is just randomly changing from scammer queen to responsible principal and back to Social Media Thot.

It's clear that she's the breakout character of the show - but that's a result of the writers giving her this bigger than life/wild persona to play off the "boring" characters. The writers are giving her the best lines for the most part. So she's JJ from Good Times, Darius from ATL, Barney Stinson from How I Met Your Mother.

The show doesn't have to perfectly mirror reality, but it does need to be consistent with the characters it creates.
All of that happens within a show that is chronical in its own canon. Granted to save themselves with Ava, they never ipened up her background as a concrete, they left wiggle room. She wasnt always gonna be the failire of a principal.

As for Janine, her character has beacoup flaws that we will see her progress and regress. Her strong point is a character gimmick that she will grow out of or advance as the show geaux on. I see her becoming a high school teacher soon to progress her story.


Also the Italian teacher is really really thick for a white woman....geesh
 

Mission249

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This new Helpful and Professional Ava comes from where exactly?

That's not what the writers established her as.

So if she changes, good writing tells us why.

In the episode where Janine is sick and Ava has to handle the class, the writers reinforce how much Ava doesn't know what she's doing. But during this very same season, she's flowing from the survival scrolls like she was Barbara.
You're operating under this idea that just because she hasn't done something that must mean she can't do it.
If anything, that episode reinforced that she didn't want to do it not that she wasn't capable.

One of the most loved episodes of The Office was when Michael closed a big sale and demonstrated he was actually the best salesman in the office. It was interesting character depth because despite his bafoonish behavior before and after, he was actually quite capable; if only he could get out of his own way.
 

Atsym Sknyfs

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The show is really wholesome too. Nobody is ever really mad at each other, and the teachers are all caring. That was never present in my elementary school. Not once.
LOL.... they only showing 10 teachers max... we know (I'm married to a teacher) there's 50-80 teachers minimum in some schools..

And ... whats the latest on the charter school ..? hmmm
 
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