A Wiseman Told Me Never Argue With Fools: Official 2021 Warriors Season Thread

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This is a piece from 2012 on stretch bigs:
7 Best Stretch Fowards in the NBA

The stretch forward position isn't as much a novelty in the NBA as it is a necessity in today's league in order to form a winning team.

Gone are rugged centers that clogged the paint every possession in a grind-it-out game. Granted, there are still true centers like Andrew Bynum, Tim Duncan and to an extent, Dwight Howard. But teams now are working to space the floor and up the tempo in order to get open shots from three and create more lanes for players to slash through.

This list aims to categorize the top seven forwards in the league that can simultaneously shoot the ball while also pulling the opposing team's center or power forward away from the basket.

Most would connote that a stretch forward is a small forward trapped in a power forward's body, but there are other types as well. A big man that shoots well from mid-range and able to hit the occasional three also bodes well as a stretch player off the pick-and-pop or pick-and-roll off another player.

Because of that, the rankings left out players who play primarily with their backs to the basket like LaMarcus Aldridge,Pau Gasol and Carmelo Anthony, who functions better for his team as a power forward but is built like a small forward.

LeBron James didn't make the cut, and while he is the superior player to all of the listed, he isn't nearly the same deep threat.

This list gauges the quality of players who can shoot coming off pin downs or screens or act as the kickout option and safety valve on a pick-and-roll or baseline drive. We are looking strictly at the ability of the player on offense so defensive ability is marginalized to an extent.

Let's take a look.

7. Ilyasova
6. KG (0.2 threes per game)
5. Bosh (0.6 threes per game)
4. Anderson
3. Love
2. Nowitzki
1. Durant
Stretch bigs back then weren't just categorized by their 3-pt shooting ability.

:manny:
 

sidenikkagawd

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The league-average 3-pt attempts are most certainly relevant when bigs weren't demanded to be floor spacers back then, as opposed to now where it's basically a prerequisite in today's current climate. The very best shooting big men, who were established, were tasked with taking 3s in 2012 - not every big man and most certainly not rookies. The 3-pt shot was essentially looked at as a complimentary shot back then.

And furthermore, the fact that AD didn't automatically come out and become a knockdown shooter back in 2012, and took him a season or two to adjust before he could start knocking down jumpers with all the guard development he had, don't you think that Wiseman is going to have an even tougher time making his mark in a league where shooting 3s is actually required?

How's Wiseman supposed to be this stretch big when he's basically had a lifetime of dominating through sheer size down low, when according to your definition of what constitutes a stretch big [shooting 3s] he basically has little-to-no history of?

Yes, because that's the type of jumpshot that the majority of bigs were taking back then. You keep trying to compare conditions back then to 2020 when 3-pt activity has increased by 80-100% since AD first came into the league. KG was a stretch 4, yet he didn't take many 3s and there were plenty of bigs who shot 3s during his era.

And you're taking stretch big far too literal in its definition. AD's versatility is what gave him his ability to stretch the floor, being able to handle and provide playmaking from the perimeter - not just his shooting.
There were legitimate Stretch Bigs before the game changed and they shot better than 11% thats a irrelevant point :camby:

Stretch Big means a big that can shoot the 3 consistently Its ALWAYS meant that you tryna change the definition to support ya argument now :russ:

There has been plenty of big men that could knockdown the mid range shot consistently and were never considered Stretch Bigs

:umad:
 
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There were legitimate Stretch Bigs before the game changed and they shot better than 11% thats a irrelevant point :camby:

Stretch Big means a big that can shoot the 3 consistently Its ALWAYS meant that you tryna change the definition to support ya argument now :russ:

There has been plenty of big men that could knockdown the mid range shot consistently and were never considered Stretch Bigs

:umad:
You know someone doesn't want to admit they lost the argument when they start deflecting by grabbing onto a frayed thread of semantics instead of addressing the overarching point. All you've done in these most recent exchanges is aimlessly reshape the definition of stretch big without contextualizing that there's essentially a decade-span between when AD first got drafted and when Wiseman will play - during a period where 3-pt volume has had it's sharpest spike.

:lolbron:

Trying to compare AD's path to the NBA as if Wiseman had the same development and therefore projects to be the same type of player is arguing in bad faith and with revisionist history. Nobody that knows their shyt would ever make that comparison. They're completely two different types of players who had completely different paths to the league.

:yeshrug:
 

sidenikkagawd

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You know someone doesn't want to admit they lost the argument when they start deflecting by grabbing onto a frayed thread of semantics instead of addressing the overarching point. All you've done in these most recent exchanges is aimlessly reshape the definition of stretch big without contextualizing that there's essentially a decade-span between when AD first got drafted and when Wiseman will play - during a period where 3-pt volume has had it's sharpest spike.

:lolbron:

Trying to compare AD's path to the NBA as if Wiseman had the same development and therefore projects to be the same type of player is arguing in bad faith and with revisionist history. Nobody that knows their shyt would ever make that comparison. They're completely two different types of players who had completely different paths to the league.

:yeshrug:
3/27 from 3 in 3 years not only makes any argument you try to make for AD being a Stretch Big coming in to the league null and void but it makes for great comedy for you to try to rationalize it by changing goal posts or redefining terminology

You was so invested in to a irrelevant point and overall terrible argument that you embarrassed the shyt yoself and proved my point about grooming Wiseman into a legitimate Stretch Big just like AD was

Im done :mjlol:
 
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3/27 from 3 in 3 years not only makes any argument you try to make for AD being a Stretch Big coming in to the league null and void but it makes for great comedy for you to try to rationalize it by changing goal posts or redefining terminology
KG was classified as a stretch big in 2012 and he shot 5/28 from behind the arc over the same period.

Again, you keep trying to stamp this point of what constitutes a stretch big in 2020 as the same in 2012, when that was never the case. As the game has changed so has the role(s) and demands of a stretch big. All you're doing is drowning your argument in revisionist history because you don't want to admit that you don't know shyt about AD's development prior to the league and don't know what the hell you're talking about, in general.
You was so invested in to a irrelevant point and overall terrible argument that you embarrassed the shyt yoself and proved my point about grooming Wiseman into a legitimate Stretch Big just like AD was
Since you believe that Wiseman can be groomed into a stretch big like AD, and you believe that a player only becomes a stretch big once they can regularly hit the 3, please tell me how long do you think it'll take Wiseman to reach this status when AD (who came into the league with a better jumpshot and had far greater development) until about his fifth season. Does that mean that it's going to take Wiseman six seasons? Seven seasons? Eight seasons?

This should be fun.

:mjgrin:
 

FukkaPaidEmail

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Not a Warriors fan but I do think y’all should trade the pick for rotational help and a lower pick in the top 10. Y’all window is closing getting instant impact should be priority.


As far as the AD prospect conversation is going he was no way thought of being a stretch big or offensive dynamo coming out of Kentucky .In fact his offensive game was a question mark because
1) He wasn’t a shooter at all
2)He didn’t have a post game

he was touted as an Elite finisher around the basket/in transition with elite defense .

Could wiseman add an outside shot to his game like AD? Sure . But idk if it will rise to that level to help GSW soon enough ,if ever and it’s not even a sure thing his defense will be anywhere near Davis’.
 
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BlaqkSpliffin

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I will say this cause I’ve seen y’all goin back n forth for pages....I’m from TN and I’ve frequented the past 2 or 3 state tourneys so I’ve seen a lot of Memphis East (Wiseman hs) games, and he will be a good shooter for a big and I feel confident in that assertion. He didn’t take many jumpers by default cuz he was the only 7 footer out there, but when he did, you could tell by his form that with a lil mechanical tweaking he’ll become a very effective outside shooter
This is the thing I don't think people get, his form is already solid and he'll improve as time goes on. Also, he's a willing shooter whose not scared to take them so eventually they'll go in consistently.

If you look at the percentages the only elite big who shoots a good 3pt percentage is KAT. Everyone else is 33 percent or lower. Even Luka shoots below 35 percent. People who think it's out of the realm of possibility for Wiseman to knockdown corner 3's at a decent clip while PJ Tucker shoots over 40 percent and Kawhi, who couldn't shoot at all coming out of college, shoots 37+ percent:mjlol:

His floor is Myles Turner without the stiffness
 
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@Gil Scott-Heroin who do u want Warriors to draft, again?
Ideally, I'd like to see the Warriors trade the pick for an established star or depth, or trading down for depth. However, if neither of those ends up being an avenue they take, and they have to use the #2 pick, Edwards or Deni look like the most suitable candidates to help this team in the immediate future.
 
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