A Wiseman Told Me Never Argue With Fools: Official 2021 Warriors Season Thread

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rbksNgirbauds

rbksNgirbauds

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Gil Scott-Heroin said:
:usure:

AD started off as a 6ft guard in HS who was known as "the little guy who would shoot threes from the corner". The main reason was he has such vast versatility is because he's essentially a guard in a big's body. He developed his skillset as a guard and then had a rapid growth spurt. By the time his senior year rolled around, he grew to 6-10 and was still playing a similar type of role - "despite his growth, Davis continued to perform aspects of the role of a guard during the season by bringing the ball up the court and shooting outside shots".

I don't know how you could possibly come to the conclusion of hope that Wiseman could be groomed the same way.
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sidenikkagawd said:
That has nothing to do with what AD showed as a prospect coming outta Kentucky



SB Nation scouting report ranked AD as a 6/10 shooter and literally said he had to polish his offensive arsenal

:unimpressed:

You want me to pull up some more scouting reports are you going to continue ?
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I will say this cause I’ve seen y’all goin back n forth for pages....I’m from TN and I’ve frequented the past 2 or 3 state tourneys so I’ve seen a lot of Memphis East (Wiseman hs) games, and he will be a good shooter for a big and I feel confident in that assertion. He didn’t take many jumpers by default cuz he was the only 7 footer out there, but when he did, you could tell by his form that with a lil mechanical tweaking he’ll become a very effective outside shooter
 
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sidenikkagawd said:
What hole ?

You really delusional :mjlol:
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The hole you keep trying to dig when AD's skillset is literally that of a guard (because that's what he was all throughout his formative years), and yet you continue to be insistent that he never projected or showed signs of being a stretch big. The only thing that changed for AD was his height. As I said - he's quite literally a guard in a big's body. You speak as if he was somehow this traditional big with a back-to-the-basket game who exists down low.
To understand what makes Davis so good, it’s helpful to know this bit of trivia — Davis grew from 6’2″ to 6’10” between his sophomore and senior years in high school. He went from a lightly-recruited guard who had one scholarship offer (from Cleveland State) to the best high school player in the country.

As a result of that unusual growth spurt, Davis has the fundamentals and movements of the guard within the body of a center (he’s now 6’11” and still growing). He’s the ultimate hybrid.

In a new ESPN article, Jordan Brenner had this great description of his unique skillset:

“In a league of specialised big men — rim protectors and stretch-4s, elbow facilitators and designated rebounders — Davis embodies virtually every archetype.

“When asked to name Davis’ best attribute, Pelicans coach Monty Williams pauses like a parent forced to choose his favourite child. Eventually, Williams settles on Davis’ ability to run the floor, but he just as easily could have picked the power forward’s quickness and reach as a shot-blocker, his rebounding acumen (which will only be aided this season by his newly chiseled shoulders) or the touch and grace he displays in finishing plays near the rim. Plus, Davis can dribble, pass and knock down face-up jumpers, and it won’t be long before he displays 3-point range. ‘His strength,” says one GM, ‘is that he has no weakness.'”

When he was a freshman at Kentucky in 2012, he told ESPN that his basketball idols actually changed when he grew. He originally wanted to be like Allen Iverson as a sophomore in high school, and by the time he was a senior he wanted to be Kevin Garnett.

The things Davis does so well — blocking shots, finishing, rebounding — are things he learned after he grew.

From ESPN:

“Just like that, on a national stage, Davis went from thinking about steals to shot blocks. He switched from Steve Nash dribbling drills to the Mikan Drill. Everything was new to him, but he never let on that he was learning most things for the first time.”
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Wiseman's development is quite literally the opposite of that. He's always been big and played like a big. When he was a freshman he was 6-9 and 200+lbs; at the same age, AD was 6-0 and 165-170lbs.

Do you want to keep digging or are you done?

:usure:
 
sidenikkagawd

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Gil Scott-Heroin said:
The hole you keep trying to dig when AD's skillset is literally that of a guard (because that's what he was all throughout his formative years), and yet you continue to be insistent that he never projected or showed signs of being a stretch big. The only thing that changed for AD was his height. As I said - he's quite literally a guard in a big's body. You speak as if he was somehow this traditional big with a back-to-the-basket game who exists down low.

Wiseman's development is quite literally the opposite of that. He's always been big and played like a big. When he was a freshman he was 6-9 and 200+lbs; at the same age, AD was 6-0 and 165-170lbs.

Do you want to keep digging or are you done?

:usure:
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You using scouting reports that still dont prove shyt cuz AD didnt start shooting 3s consistently until his 4th year in the league

He was 3/27 on 3pt shots his first 3 years yet he was a knockdown stretch 4 coming outta college :mjlol:

Only hole im digging in is the vagina in ya argument

:camby:
 
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Gil Scott-Heroin

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sidenikkagawd said:
You using scouting reports that still dont prove shyt cuz AD didnt start shooting 3s consistently until his 4th year in the league

He was 3/27 on 3pt shots his first 3 years yet he was a knockdown stretch 4 coming outta college :mjlol:

Only hole im digging in is the vagina in ya argument

:camby:
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Who said anything about AD being a knockdown stretch 4 coming out of college?

:usure:

I'm using factual information of him starting off as a guard, developing guard skills (ball-handling, shooting, playmaking etc) which was the foundation of his versatility once he had a growth spurt and transitioned into a big. That is NOT the same development that Wiseman undertook. You can't look at his 3-pt shooting in isolation back in 2012 when the league was in a different state back then. The league-average team takes 35 threes per game in 2020; back in 2012, the league-average team only took 19 threes per game.

Teams are taking TWICE the amount of 3s in 2020 that they did in 2012 (AD's rookie season).

A more accurate measurement of AD's shooting ability and floor-spacing value during his initial years, is his jumpshots, in general:

2012/13 - 35 eFG%
2013/14 - 38 eFG% (40% from midrange)
2014/15 - 43 eFG% (43% from midrange)
2015/16 - 42 eFG% (42% from midrange).

He was one of the most efficient shooting big men during those seasons; a skill that he had developed when he was a guard in HS.
 
sidenikkagawd

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Gil Scott-Heroin said:
Who said anything about AD being a knockdown stretch 4 coming out of college?

:usure:

I'm using factual information of him starting off as a guard, developing guard skills (ball-handling, shooting, playmaking etc) which was the foundation of his versatility once he had a growth spurt and transitioned into a big. That is NOT the same development that Wiseman undertook. You can't look at his 3-pt shooting in isolation back in 2012 when the league was in a different state back then. The league-average team takes 35 threes per game in 2020; back in 2012, the league-average team only took 19 threes per game.

Teams are taking TWICE the amount of 3s in 2020 that they did in 2012 (AD's rookie season).

A more accurate measurement of AD's shooting ability and floor-spacing value during his initial years, is his jumpshots, in general:

2012/13 - 35 eFG%
2013/14 - 38 eFG% (40% from midrange)
2014/15 - 43 eFG% (43% from midrange)
2015/16 - 42 eFG% (42% from midrange).

He was one of the most efficient shooting big men during those seasons; a skill that he had developed when he was a guard in HS.
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The nikka shot 11% on 27 3pt attempts his first 3 years in the league :what:

Unless you think he purposefully shot poor as a stretch big why are you continuing this argument ? The average 3pt attempts is irrelevant because theres been stretch bigs in the league before him

Him being a PG his Sophomore year is absolutely irrelevant cuz it didnt translate to him being a competent perimeter shooter when he came out

You pulling out Mid Range numbers now ? Really ? :dead:
 
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Gil Scott-Heroin

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sidenikkagawd said:
The nikka shot 11% on 27 3pt attempts his first 3 years in the league :what:

Unless you think he purposefully shot poor as a stretch big why are you continuing this argument ? The average 3pt attempts is irrelevant because theres been stretch bigs in the league before him
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The league-average 3-pt attempts are most certainly relevant when bigs weren't demanded to be floor spacers back then, as opposed to now where it's basically a prerequisite in today's current climate. The very best shooting big men, who were established, were tasked with taking 3s in 2012 - not every big man and most certainly not rookies. The 3-pt shot was essentially looked at as a complimentary shot back then.

And furthermore, the fact that AD didn't automatically come out and become a knockdown shooter back in 2012, and took him a season or two to adjust before he could start knocking down jumpers with all the guard development he had, don't you think that Wiseman is going to have an even tougher time making his mark in a league where shooting 3s is actually required?

How's Wiseman supposed to be this stretch big when he's basically had a lifetime of dominating through sheer size down low, when according to your definition of what constitutes a stretch big [shooting 3s] he basically has little-to-no history of?
sidenikkagawd said:
You pulling out Mid Range numbers now ? Really ? :dead:
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Yes, because that's the type of jumpshot that the majority of bigs were taking back then. You keep trying to compare conditions in 2012 to 2020 when 3-pt activity has increased by 80-100%. KG was a stretch 4, yet he didn't take many 3s and there were plenty of bigs who shot 3s during his era.

And you're taking stretch big far too literal in its definition - a stretch big is someone who pulls defenders away from the basket. Mid-range shooting pulls defenders away from the basket, especially in the context of 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 etc. AD's versatility is what gave him his ability to stretch the floor, being able to handle the rock and provide playmaking from the perimeter - not just his shooting.
 
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