A Wiseman Told Me Never Argue With Fools: Official 2021 Warriors Season Thread
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The Warriors, on their barnstorming tour for draft prospects, have been to Atlanta and Miami, window shopping for the No. 2 pick. Sources said it’s a small traveling party: Joe Lacob, Bob Myers, Steve Kerr and director of sports medicine and performance Rick Celebrini. In Atlanta, they watched the workout of Deni Avdija, who I highly doubt they take that high in the draft. But they did see something on this road trip, sources said, that would make them just fine with making a selection at No. 2. Two somethings actually.
Anthony Edwards. James Wiseman.
I put them in alphabetical order, so don’t get ahead of yourself. Word out of the workouts is that both of them were “beasts.”
Wiseman is as big and skilled as advertised. They also liked him when they had their conversation/interview or whatever it was.
Edwards’ exceptional athleticism jumped out in person. He seemed to really impress the Warriors with his freakishness. He must have done something like this.
For a team open about the need for more size and athleticism, it sounds as if they’d be fine with either player, depending on what Minnesota does ahead of them.
But there is still one more must-see player out there. One player who piques the Warriors’ interest — and rightfully so, never mind the narratives of the haters out there — because of his size and skill. That player is LaMelo Ball.
If I had to handicap it, the Warriors’ choice with the No. 2 pick will come down to three players: Ball, Edwards, Wiseman. See, I did the alphabetical thing again so you can’t say I ranked them. Of course, trading the pick is still on the table. It’s probably their preferred option. But 26 days out from the draft, they’ve crossed an important bridge. They’ve gotten to see the top talents up close. They will probably see more, especially to be ready for a trade-down scenario. That’s why I’d guess they’re getting a good look at Avdija. But there is a sense that if they have to use the pick, they’ve got a viable draft board and a couple of guys they might actually want.
It could all just be draft-day posturing, too.
Something to think about: It does say something that Edwards and Wiseman have worked out in front of the Warriors and there is no such word of those players working out for Minnesota. Presumably, it’s coming. But wouldn’t both of those guys prefer to go No. 1? If so, wouldn’t they prioritize getting in front of the Timberwolves first? And because we’ve been down this road before, with the Warriors directly behind Minnesota in the lottery, would the Timberwolves draft a player they didn’t get to see up close during the draft process?
If there isn’t a good trade on the table, one of those three guys will be on the board for the Warriors. How they rank on the Warriors’ draft board is another story.
First, it’s about readiness and star potential. The Warriors can’t go full project. They need somebody who can contribute now while they have a championship window with Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. But they also need a player who can grow into an anchoring core piece down the road, if not an All-Star. They need somebody who can help the Big Three and also supplant them in the team’s hierarchy eventually. At least be good enough to maximize the back end of their primes.
Obviously, if they could trade for such a player, a transitional talent who can do both — who is a veteran — that would be most ideal. They’d at least know what they are getting. But failing that, if they go with the pick, the Warriors need to at least attempt to land a player who can be more than a role player at some point. You don’t use the No. 2 pick on a player you think might be a good minutes-eater off the bench.
The interesting thing to ponder is: How much did Edwards impress the Warriors? If Ball goes No. 1, as The Athletic mock draft currently has him, who do the Warriors take then?
Edwards seems to be less of a fit than the other two, at least for the immediate future. He’s 6-foot-5 by most accounts. But the NBA’s Draft 2020 bio has him at 6-3; is that a typo or a more accurate measure? His weight ranges from 225 to 235 pounds, the latter is what the NBA lists. ESPN has him at 6-3, 225. He’s drawn comparisons to Dwyane Wade and Donovan Mitchell because of his athleticism and knack for scoring. But if he’s closer to their height, that’s a bit concerning for a team looking to add size. Also, they have Curry, Thompson and Andrew Wiggins who will gobble up most of the perimeter minutes.
How would they use Edwards in the interim? A scorer off the bench? Not sure he is refined enough offensively to walk into the league get buckets off the bench. That’s not so easy to do.
Would they start him as a third guard with Wiggins and Green as the two bigs? That’s just not how Kerr rolls. And they want to get bigger, remember?
Edwards, however, would instantly ratchet up their athleticism and he could end up their starting shooting guard one day if he proves to be as natural of a scorer as he seems. Give him time to work on his 3-ball (29.4 percent in college at Georgia) — oh yeah, he shot it really well in front of the Warriors — and he could be the leading scorer of the future. Possible.
But how will that shot translate? Will he stretch his imagination offensively from the high-volume, inefficient scoring model and learn the Warriors’ way of movement, cutting and passing? How will he handle coming to a team that only needs him to be a role player at first?
The fact that Edwards was able to impress the Warriors with his athleticism even though everyone knows he’s athletic is probably a hint at how Edwards has been grinding. That does speak to his discipline and work ethic.
Wiseman is much more of an obvious fit.
The NBA’s draft website lists him as 7-1, 247 pounds, which fits in the range of where most seem to have his measurements. If we know anything about Kerr, it’s that his preference is to have a center on the floor. He will go small, but he likes to save the card. And since the small-ball center who makes it work is 30 years old, Kerr really is not going to want to ride a small lineup hard.
Also, as we talked about on the latest episode of the “Warriors Plus-Minus” podcast, the Warriors had to have watched what went on in the NBA bubble and realized they need more size. The two most dominant teams in the Western Conference were the Lakers with Anthony Davis and Denver with Nikola Jokić. Even the Clippers’ 7-footer Ivica Zubac can feast on small teams. The Warriors need to be able to get big.
The ideal has always been a big who can also play on the perimeter. It’s why Anthony Davis is such a matchup nightmare (even though he doesn’t want to play center), because he can protect the rim, cover guards on the perimeter when a switch happens and shoot the ball from deep. He’s a power forward who can do some center things. That’s what Green becomes for the Warriors.
Wiseman, if you look at him through the most idealistic glasses, has some of the tools to allow that. Not sure how that shot will look, but he should be able to protect the rim with his size. And the evident athleticism from his brief collegiate stint at Memphis and in other settings suggests he should not be a fish out of water if he gets switched on a pick-and-roll, so long as he learns techniques and the game plan and wants to be great defensively. And he can be what the Warriors need now: a rim-runner, a screen-setter, a shot-blocker, a lob-catcher, a big who runs the floor. Those things won’t take much.
His combination of size, skill and athleticism seems to make it a high-percentage bet he is a functional NBA center if he is coachable.
But … is he coachable? Does he have a motor? Will the skill that looks good on workout videos look as good against live NBA defense? With his lack of experience in actual games, how will he handle the read-and-react heavy system of the Warriors?
We’ll get to Ball eventually. I know a couple of people in the organization think he is super talented. But let’s wait on word from his workout.
The unique thing about this trio is that only one of them is possibly a plus on defense initially, and it’s the 7-1 guy. Kerr really has a hard time swallowing defensive liabilities on the court. Edwards’ defensive issues are heightened if he really is only 6-3. And Ball is 6-7, 190 pounds, per the NBA’s measurements, and has the frame and instincts to be a good defender. I can see the Warriors convincing themselves they can turn him into a good defender.
Or maybe, the star potential they bring limits the defensive concerns. If that’s the case, I’d probably add Dayton power forward Obi Toppin to the list of possibles. His defense is an issue, but he’s probably the most ready to produce offensively for the Warriors. Because he is 22, that might scare off the upside police. He definitely gives off maxed-out-in-college vibes. But that’s less often true with skill-based players. Skill has a way of growing when around better players. Some of these older players defy expectations by improving once they get in the league even if they got overlooked because they were older. Pascal Siakam comes to mind.
Toppin doesn’t have the type of jump-off-the-page upside as the three aforementioned. And he doesn’t exactly address the need for size. But if he grows into a player, there will be no shortage of talking heads saying “it’s because he spent three years in college!”
We’ll be talking more about this later.
-------------------------------------
Tino Chiappelli
Sales Supervisor – Manufacturing Division
KERMA MEDICAL PRODUCTS, INC.
757.514.2098 |Direct
757.398.8408 |Fax
The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged and is intended for the exclusive use of the above named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are expressly prohibited from copying, distributing, disseminating, or in any other way using any of the information contained within this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender by telephone at (757) 514-2098 or by response via e-mail and permanently delete the original email and any copies.
Anthony Edwards. James Wiseman.
I put them in alphabetical order, so don’t get ahead of yourself. Word out of the workouts is that both of them were “beasts.”
Wiseman is as big and skilled as advertised. They also liked him when they had their conversation/interview or whatever it was.
Edwards’ exceptional athleticism jumped out in person. He seemed to really impress the Warriors with his freakishness. He must have done something like this.
For a team open about the need for more size and athleticism, it sounds as if they’d be fine with either player, depending on what Minnesota does ahead of them.
But there is still one more must-see player out there. One player who piques the Warriors’ interest — and rightfully so, never mind the narratives of the haters out there — because of his size and skill. That player is LaMelo Ball.
If I had to handicap it, the Warriors’ choice with the No. 2 pick will come down to three players: Ball, Edwards, Wiseman. See, I did the alphabetical thing again so you can’t say I ranked them. Of course, trading the pick is still on the table. It’s probably their preferred option. But 26 days out from the draft, they’ve crossed an important bridge. They’ve gotten to see the top talents up close. They will probably see more, especially to be ready for a trade-down scenario. That’s why I’d guess they’re getting a good look at Avdija. But there is a sense that if they have to use the pick, they’ve got a viable draft board and a couple of guys they might actually want.
It could all just be draft-day posturing, too.
Something to think about: It does say something that Edwards and Wiseman have worked out in front of the Warriors and there is no such word of those players working out for Minnesota. Presumably, it’s coming. But wouldn’t both of those guys prefer to go No. 1? If so, wouldn’t they prioritize getting in front of the Timberwolves first? And because we’ve been down this road before, with the Warriors directly behind Minnesota in the lottery, would the Timberwolves draft a player they didn’t get to see up close during the draft process?
If there isn’t a good trade on the table, one of those three guys will be on the board for the Warriors. How they rank on the Warriors’ draft board is another story.
First, it’s about readiness and star potential. The Warriors can’t go full project. They need somebody who can contribute now while they have a championship window with Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. But they also need a player who can grow into an anchoring core piece down the road, if not an All-Star. They need somebody who can help the Big Three and also supplant them in the team’s hierarchy eventually. At least be good enough to maximize the back end of their primes.
Obviously, if they could trade for such a player, a transitional talent who can do both — who is a veteran — that would be most ideal. They’d at least know what they are getting. But failing that, if they go with the pick, the Warriors need to at least attempt to land a player who can be more than a role player at some point. You don’t use the No. 2 pick on a player you think might be a good minutes-eater off the bench.
The interesting thing to ponder is: How much did Edwards impress the Warriors? If Ball goes No. 1, as The Athletic mock draft currently has him, who do the Warriors take then?
Edwards seems to be less of a fit than the other two, at least for the immediate future. He’s 6-foot-5 by most accounts. But the NBA’s Draft 2020 bio has him at 6-3; is that a typo or a more accurate measure? His weight ranges from 225 to 235 pounds, the latter is what the NBA lists. ESPN has him at 6-3, 225. He’s drawn comparisons to Dwyane Wade and Donovan Mitchell because of his athleticism and knack for scoring. But if he’s closer to their height, that’s a bit concerning for a team looking to add size. Also, they have Curry, Thompson and Andrew Wiggins who will gobble up most of the perimeter minutes.
How would they use Edwards in the interim? A scorer off the bench? Not sure he is refined enough offensively to walk into the league get buckets off the bench. That’s not so easy to do.
Would they start him as a third guard with Wiggins and Green as the two bigs? That’s just not how Kerr rolls. And they want to get bigger, remember?
Edwards, however, would instantly ratchet up their athleticism and he could end up their starting shooting guard one day if he proves to be as natural of a scorer as he seems. Give him time to work on his 3-ball (29.4 percent in college at Georgia) — oh yeah, he shot it really well in front of the Warriors — and he could be the leading scorer of the future. Possible.
But how will that shot translate? Will he stretch his imagination offensively from the high-volume, inefficient scoring model and learn the Warriors’ way of movement, cutting and passing? How will he handle coming to a team that only needs him to be a role player at first?
The fact that Edwards was able to impress the Warriors with his athleticism even though everyone knows he’s athletic is probably a hint at how Edwards has been grinding. That does speak to his discipline and work ethic.
Wiseman is much more of an obvious fit.
The NBA’s draft website lists him as 7-1, 247 pounds, which fits in the range of where most seem to have his measurements. If we know anything about Kerr, it’s that his preference is to have a center on the floor. He will go small, but he likes to save the card. And since the small-ball center who makes it work is 30 years old, Kerr really is not going to want to ride a small lineup hard.
Also, as we talked about on the latest episode of the “Warriors Plus-Minus” podcast, the Warriors had to have watched what went on in the NBA bubble and realized they need more size. The two most dominant teams in the Western Conference were the Lakers with Anthony Davis and Denver with Nikola Jokić. Even the Clippers’ 7-footer Ivica Zubac can feast on small teams. The Warriors need to be able to get big.
The ideal has always been a big who can also play on the perimeter. It’s why Anthony Davis is such a matchup nightmare (even though he doesn’t want to play center), because he can protect the rim, cover guards on the perimeter when a switch happens and shoot the ball from deep. He’s a power forward who can do some center things. That’s what Green becomes for the Warriors.
Wiseman, if you look at him through the most idealistic glasses, has some of the tools to allow that. Not sure how that shot will look, but he should be able to protect the rim with his size. And the evident athleticism from his brief collegiate stint at Memphis and in other settings suggests he should not be a fish out of water if he gets switched on a pick-and-roll, so long as he learns techniques and the game plan and wants to be great defensively. And he can be what the Warriors need now: a rim-runner, a screen-setter, a shot-blocker, a lob-catcher, a big who runs the floor. Those things won’t take much.
His combination of size, skill and athleticism seems to make it a high-percentage bet he is a functional NBA center if he is coachable.
But … is he coachable? Does he have a motor? Will the skill that looks good on workout videos look as good against live NBA defense? With his lack of experience in actual games, how will he handle the read-and-react heavy system of the Warriors?
We’ll get to Ball eventually. I know a couple of people in the organization think he is super talented. But let’s wait on word from his workout.
The unique thing about this trio is that only one of them is possibly a plus on defense initially, and it’s the 7-1 guy. Kerr really has a hard time swallowing defensive liabilities on the court. Edwards’ defensive issues are heightened if he really is only 6-3. And Ball is 6-7, 190 pounds, per the NBA’s measurements, and has the frame and instincts to be a good defender. I can see the Warriors convincing themselves they can turn him into a good defender.
Or maybe, the star potential they bring limits the defensive concerns. If that’s the case, I’d probably add Dayton power forward Obi Toppin to the list of possibles. His defense is an issue, but he’s probably the most ready to produce offensively for the Warriors. Because he is 22, that might scare off the upside police. He definitely gives off maxed-out-in-college vibes. But that’s less often true with skill-based players. Skill has a way of growing when around better players. Some of these older players defy expectations by improving once they get in the league even if they got overlooked because they were older. Pascal Siakam comes to mind.
Toppin doesn’t have the type of jump-off-the-page upside as the three aforementioned. And he doesn’t exactly address the need for size. But if he grows into a player, there will be no shortage of talking heads saying “it’s because he spent three years in college!”
We’ll be talking more about this later.
-------------------------------------
Tino Chiappelli
Sales Supervisor – Manufacturing Division
KERMA MEDICAL PRODUCTS, INC.
757.514.2098 |Direct
757.398.8408 |Fax
The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged and is intended for the exclusive use of the above named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are expressly prohibited from copying, distributing, disseminating, or in any other way using any of the information contained within this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender by telephone at (757) 514-2098 or by response via e-mail and permanently delete the original email and any copies.
idonttouchgrass
Superstar
Edwards is 6’3?
They're underselling his height there. He's about 6-4/6-5 with a 6-9/6-10 wingspan.Edwards is 6’3?
Hallelujah.
Maybe they mean he’s 6’4 with shoes on
They still need someone in the frontcourt who can space the floor -- at the moment there is nobody. No good having a "vertical spacer", when the option of throwing to the rim is taking away because there's no room for it. I don't know why cats seem to think drafting Wiseman is suddenly going to bear fruits of all this potential when the one thing that allows the Warriors offense to function [spacing] would be crippled.
Nxggas is getting all starry-eyed at a 7ft, hyper-athletic project without looking at the fit for the team.
So defense isn’t a priority after what happened this past season? It was a fuking layup drill every night. Wiggins is a good number 3 to complement the splash bro’s
Who said defense isn't a priority?
You think a raw, laterally-limited 19-year-old, who has barely played any competitive ball against NBA size/speed is going to be the answer? Especially given the fact that perimeter defense is more important for a big man than at any point in history; on top of the fact that protecting the rim requires more discipline and BBIQ than ever before. Just because someone might be 7ft and can jump high doesn't mean shyt if they don't understand how to play defense in this current climate.
If defense is a priority for you, then you'd be directing your attention towards veteran big men and/or versatile wings in the draft.
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I’m open to any young big man from this draft, u don’t seem to understand the warriors won’t have this chance again. They have no big men signed beyond the upcoming season and are over the cap. They are fuked because chriss will probably leave, then what? If they don’t get a young big man this draft there stuck with using the mle every year on aging front court players. They need new blood upfront not for this upcoming season but for the next 4 years.
even if they get wiseman they still need another big man
There'll always be the chance to get a big man. There certainly be won't the chance to maximize the last seasons of one of the best cores in NBA history. again. Which is the point here. Surround Steph, Klay and Draymond with the players that can help them win next season. And as I've reiterated all throughout this discussion, a traditional big man is a dying breed; he's not some integral part of winning a championship like we're in the 70s.
BlaqkSpliffin
Ni**as Still Weird - Me
He's 6'4 probably 6'5 in shoes. He's built got Harden's thickness but he's cut like Dipo. Star potential wise he has the best upside of the 3 main guys. His defense is gonna be HORRIBLE as a rookie tho. Charlotte would be the best fit for him low-key.Edwards is 6’3?
Things are different with bron/ad, they’ve changed the landscape. Playing small ball against them is death. Watching Miami being so helpless inside was terrifying. It’s just not la, you got teams like mil.
Right now I would say the warriors have a bottom 5 front court, what is your opinion?
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