A Wiseman Told Me Never Argue With Fools: Official 2021 Warriors Season Thread

[BlaqkSpliffin]

Wait, what?

How the fukk are you coming out and saying this, after I've been reiterating this very point to you as to why Wiseman on this squad makes the least amount of sense?

The idea is that since Embiid has dealt with a severe, crippling workload of carrying a squad where a lack of spacing and an overreliance on creating his own offense, as if he were in a strait-jacket on every offensive possession, because his co-star's existence is quite literally ignored when he's outside the paint, is that with space that would expand past the Milky Way, would lead to not only less wear and tear on his body (allowing him to play more games and distribute his energy more evenly), not only to being infinitely more efficient and consistent, but it would make the Warriors offense unstoppable.

Embiid on this squad would be a literal nightmare for the league.



Imagine defenses worrying about Steph and Klay bombing way from behind the arc, and Embiid capitalizing on this just as Durant did. It would be unfair.

Because here's the thing: this core, as is, has a finite, dwindling window, whose expiration will be within the next 2-3 seasons, and that's being generous. A relevance that would span an entire decade, which would have only been replicated by the Spurs with Duncan/Parker/Manu, in the modern era. It is why it's with the utmost importance that the Warriors make these least few seasons count, and they push all their chips in. Taking a gamble on a generational player like Embiid that would give this squad an unparalleled advantage, is worth whatever they'd need to give up in order to fulfill that.

1)It's PACE and space meaning having a rim runner who is also capable of being an elite paint protector is ideal. Wiseman fits that bill more than Embiid does without giving up resources.

2)Embiid has been consistently hurt since college. Missed his first 2 seasons and has only played over 60+ games twice. Investing in an oft injured and slow big man to be your 3rd star makes zero sense especially if you're trying to preserve Steph and Klay. What happens when, not if, Embiid gets hurt and misses time? You have no Wiggins or legit depth to make up for his absence so now you have to play Steph and Klay heavy minutes in their 30's just to win regular season games. We literally just saw what happened when you have a top heavy team that gets a major injury. We also saw that top heavy team become more disengaged each season and get worse defensively and pace wise. That was with a 7 foot guard who could guard every position and shoot 40 from 3. What do you think will happen with Embiid?

3)If this was KAT who has the offense talent to justify such a move, or AD or Giannis who both run the floor hard consistently and are just freak athletes then sure I'd potentially agree but Embiid? No. I'd take Simmons over him 10/10 without a second thought.

4)And this is where we fundamentally disagree and you also show you don't understand who the Spurs were identity wise. The Spurs entire philosophy was about selecting elite talent when it fell to them AND players who fit their system AND developing players to get the most out of their roster. The 2 times they tried to buy stars didn't work out very well. The Spurs relevancy lasted 20 years and they had very few losing seasons during that time and won just as much as the Lakers did. I'm not just thinking about the next 2-3 years like you are, I'm thinking about the next 6-10 since Steph is most likely gonna play into his late 30's and this team will need to adjust and invest in the future sooner rather than later. What you're describing is LITERALLY what the Lakers did in 2012 when they traded everything for an aging Steve Nash and a "prime" Dwight Howard coming off injury in an effort to maximize Kobe and Pau's later years. The result was Nash being hurt, Dwight being hurt, and a 35 yr old Kobe pushing his body too hard just to make the playoffs thus ending his career early.

Depth>>>>>>Top heavy teams

 

[BigMoneyGrip]

Small ball won’t beat the Lakers. We saw that 3 times this year. They need a big. Steal Dwight Howard or get Embiid

How about get both?

 

[khross415]

Hopefully, we can move on from this Wiseman shyt now.



Edwards has some red flags (that would be mitigated being on this squad), but I don't mind the prospect of him on this team, considering he would fit right in with the Warriors' identity and is the ideal size for today's climate.

A small-ball lineup of:

Steph
Edwards
Klay
Wiggins
Dray

, but if we are to believe the Wiseman rumors i guess we can believe the Edwards rumors too tho. We can only hope

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

1)It's PACE and space meaning having a rim runner who is also capable of being an elite paint protector is ideal. Wiseman fits that bill more than Embiid does without giving up resources.

By the time that Wiseman figures out to be an "elite paint protector", the best years of this core will be long gone. Especially in this current state of the NBA, where discipline, BBIQ and movement that comes with protecting the paint are more important than ever before. Times have changed where bum ass stiffs like Mark Eaton could just literally stand around in one spot and jump and hack at anything and everything.

And rim-runners are a dime a dozen. It'd be a waste of resources if all Wiseman provides over the next 1-2 seasons is rim-running, which at this point is the most realistic expectation for him. Unless, of course, you think he's going to be some defensive savant and stretch-5 in the short term, when there's quite literally no evidence of this being the likely case. It's going to take three years, at least, before Wiseman scratches the surface of being an integral part of a championship team, which would only be fast-tracked by a franchise willing to build an offense around him, and giving him an infinite leash, and that team certainly won't be the Warriors.

2)Embiid has been consistently hurt since college. Missed his first 2 seasons and has only played over 60+ games twice. Investing in an oft injured and slow big man to be your 3rd star makes zero sense especially if you're trying to preserve Steph and Klay. What happens when, not if, Embiid gets hurt and misses time? You have no Wiggins or legit depth to make up for his absence so now you have to play Steph and Klay heavy minutes in their 30's just to win regular season games. We literally just saw what happened when you have a top heavy team that gets a major injury. We also saw that top heavy team become more disengaged each season and get worse defensively and pace wise. That was with a 7 foot guard who could guard every position and shoot 40 from 3. What do you think will happen with Embiid?

Why is it you only seem to deal in extremities depending on what stance you're arguing for/against?

All you've done throughout our exchange is to emphasize the best-case scenario with Wiseman, and the worst-case scenarios for every other option. Why can't you deal in any middle ground that reasonably weighs up the risk-reward?

The fact remains, Embiid with a lighter offensive load and more space to work with, will only be beneficial to him keeping healthy and able to distribute his energy more evenly (rather than tiring himself out trying to create his own offense in tight spaces against multiple bodies, over and over), which is only going to make him a more consistent and more importantly, more dangerous player than he already is. Nobody in the entire existence of basketball makes players more dangerous than Steph does. Imagine how freely Embiid will be able to move, and imagine how much energy he'll have to exert through actions that lead to winning?

Now, of course, there's the risk that he gets hurt, but as the proverbial goes: scared money don't make money. You've got to look at the immediate heights this squad could reach with him on it, and see that the reward is well worth the risk. You aim low, you're only ever going to hit low.

4)And this is where we fundamentally disagree and you also show you don't understand who the Spurs were identity wise. The Spurs entire philosophy was about selecting elite talent when it fell to them AND players who fit their system AND developing players to get the most out of their roster. The 2 times they tried to buy stars didn't work out very well. The Spurs relevancy lasted 20 years and they had very few losing seasons during that time and won just as much as the Lakers did. I'm not just thinking about the next 2-3 years like you are, I'm thinking about the next 6-10 since Steph is most likely gonna play into his late 30's and this team will need to adjust and invest in the future sooner rather than later.

It is you who has a fundamental misunderstanding of the point here.

All that the Spurs did was centered around the talents and stability of Duncan, Parker and Manu. We can argue about whatever differences you feel helped them maintain relevancy, but at the end of the day, those three were at the center of it all, and it allowed them to build a culture that they did; getting every player that came through to buy into their ideology. Now with the current state of the league, where players are more expendable than ever, and win-demands and expectations are spiking year after year, the likelihood that Steph, Klay and Draymond will all be on this team in three years time is less than likely, which is all the more reason to make the most of the now, and not think about 6-10 years in time when we're none-the-wiser as to what the future holds.

For all we know, with the current direction the league is headed in, bigs like Wiseman could not only be completely irrelevant, but extinct in the next half a decade.

Look at what the Spurs have accomplished since Duncan, Parker and Manu all retired:

47-win season (1st-round exit)
48-win season (1st-round exit)
32-win season (missed the playoffs).

You'd be a fool to think that without all of Steph, Klay and Draymond that the Warriors will just magically be able to replace them and the dominance will continue. Which again, I must reiterate -- it's all the more important the moves they make this offseason is all about giving them the greatest chance of competing next season.

What you're describing is LITERALLY what the Lakers did in 2012 when they traded everything for an aging Steve Nash and a "prime" Dwight Howard coming off injury in an effort to maximize Kobe and Pau's later years. The result was Nash being hurt, Dwight being hurt, and a 35 yr old Kobe pushing his body too hard just to make the playoffs thus ending his career early.

The fact you think this false equivalence of a Lakers squad that consisted of a: 35-year-old Kobe, 38-year-old Nash, 34-year-old Artest, 36-year-old Jamison etc is somehow relevant to a Warriors squad whose core is in their early-30s and potentially adding a 26-year-old Embiid, epitomizes the level of dishonesty you're working with here.

Please do better next time.

 

[CSquare43]

Here's my thoughts on Wiseman:

I have faith in the kid. He seems smart, dedicated and willing/wants to learn. I think Draymond would be an amazing teacher to him, and have him defending at an incredible level in short order. Wiseman wants to learn and why not get that from one of the best defenders in the league.

And we've still got Zaza on staff too and he was solid and tricky...could teach him some game too.

Given his size and skill for boards and blocks (yes, a very small sample) , I'd take the risk. And he can shoot a little too.

I'm hoping this is all a smokescreen and he's who we end up with (barring any potential trades that net us a better player/balance).

That said, if Embiid is an option, sign me up for that and honestly, I think he'd push his way out of Philly before Giannis/Milwaukee...and he could push for GS....I could see him doing that...

 

[Don Homer]

Hopefully, we can move on from this Wiseman shyt now.



Edwards has some red flags (that would be mitigated being on this squad), but I don't mind the prospect of him on this team, considering he would fit right in with the Warriors' identity and is the ideal size for today's climate.

A small-ball lineup of:

Steph
Edwards
Klay
Wiggins
Dray

It’s a bad idea to move Klay to SF especially after an ACL injury

 

[Don Homer]

Man if we draft Dragan Bender 2.0, I’m gonna be pissed

wiseman was the consensus number 1 pick before he stopped. If he is available we need to take him.

we need size and athleticism, we need to draft him

 

[The God Poster]

Well, considering that Dwight was unplayable for the majority of the playoffs due to opposition small-ball lineups, it looks like Embiid is the only alternative.



And I got to say, I don't like this mentality of having to mirror other teams; fukk what the Lakers are doing. Warriors made their mark and will continue to do so operating on their own terms. The league has tried to copycat what the Warriors are/were doing, now it's up to the Warriors to come up with some new shyt to get ahead again.

Getting someone like Embiid would break the game, again, and force every other squad to play catch-up.

Light-years and all that.

Why are y’all mentioning Embiid ?

Did I miss something

 

[idonttouchgrass]

Why are y’all mentioning Embiid ?

Did I miss something

a discussion about wiseman’s lack of lateral quickness, turned to an argument about whether or not the team should get EMBIID (delusion) over an unproven raw rookie

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It’s a bad idea to move Klay to SF especially after an ACL injury

He doesn't need to play there full-time. I was just throwing out a potential small-ball lineup if Edwards is picked. And besides, defending 3s would be a lot less stress on his knee than chasing guards around screens all game.

Why are y’all mentioning Embiid ?

Did I miss something

Someone brought up that Warriors fans (I take it from another site) want to trade for Embiid. Everyone seems to be dead-set on drafting Wiseman, whereas I have serious reservations over what he can contribute in the next 1-2 years to help this team win a championship.

 

[Ohene]

Here's my thoughts on Wiseman:

I have faith in the kid. He seems smart, dedicated and willing/wants to learn. I think Draymond would be an amazing teacher to him, and have him defending at an incredible level in short order. Wiseman wants to learn and why not get that from one of the best defenders in the league.

And we've still got Zaza on staff too and he was solid and tricky...could teach him some game too.

Given his size and skill for boards and blocks (yes, a very small sample) , I'd take the risk. And he can shoot a little too.

I'm hoping this is all a smokescreen and he's who we end up with (barring any potential trades that net us a better player/balance).

That said, if Embiid is an option, sign me up for that and honestly, I think he'd push his way out of Philly before Giannis/Milwaukee...and he could push for GS....I could see him doing that...

at this point i am not holding my bbreath for wiseman

 

[Ohene]

these fools need to stfu and draft wiseman
its a now brainer. if he is even as good as deandre ayton we will be balling

 

[CSquare43]

Myers was on 95.7 on the 14th:

https://www.radio.com/957thegame/authors/the-morning-roast-with-bonta-kate-joe

He comes on @ 42 minutes in on the 'Hour 3' show from that date, I just started listening so I don't know what all they cover, but he does talk again in here about the league having moved away from the traditional big.....

 

[G.O.A.T Squad Spokesman]

 

[Don Homer]

We drafting wiseman

just got off the phone with Bob, he confirmed